Pro Card?

[michaelk]

You don’t need to be big in kg to be a IFBB Pro as there is also the 202lb pro class that NZ guys can do in the pro league and if you start looking around you will find that it’s going to be a very popular class or they can look at doing the elite class.

Allen

Very good point, and putting weight into the issue is somewhat irrelevant, I mean when Marc Rainbow stood next to Greg Kovacs it was a wipe out....to Marc.

I won the overall competing in the then 85-90kg class as did Mike D, Salah was under 85, Marc Rainbow was 75-80kg, BJ; Justin; and Kevin were over 90kg, Dave Smith was in an open category Pro Qualifier- but probably over 90kg (Mike D would likely know).

[Lil G]

Is that so Mr Mike?

If I can recal correctly one of those guys you are talking about beat you at the NZ Elite Pro Show.

Do you wish to enlighten us on the commitee members, or is that a secret tooo.

Hmmmmm I wonder which 2 athletes???...lol

Owned!

I'll let my competitive record against both these guys speak for itself

No G, I won't name names, I have been told in confidence

Well I think we all should hear who these two people are.

The reason being, because all of them have said, "that I deserve the pro-card" to my face. Also saying that they believe in 4 to 5 years I have the potential to beat Moe.

So lets cut the bull, because as a member I would like honesty and not backstabers on the committee, the very people we have running this federation. So I know who to vote for and who not to.

I have alot of respect for you Mike. Do we really want people like that on the board?... hmmmmmmm

[Lil G]

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

Is that so nz muscle?

Can't recall Moe winning a show like the one your are describing!!!!!!!!!

So I guess he doesn't deserve a pro-card either?!!!!!!!

Guess 9th in the 'Mr O' and 2nd at the Iron Man this year is'nt good enough for you ha?!!!!!!!! :naughty:

http://www.xnh.co.nz

Well you may well be right in that Moe did not compete at Arnold Amateur level, but then my understanding is, he did not get his Pro Card in New Zealand. This discussion is about trying to find a criteria that potential Pro Bodybuilders in New Zealand can aspire to. A defined course of action for qualification. I'm certainly not qualified to judge athletes on this matter, but I would have thought it logical to have met a degree of success on a relatively high ranking overseas stage as being essential in determining qualification for Pro Status.

You are correct, Instead they denied him and Darrel the opportunity to turn pro. Hmmmmm what a wise idea that was :naughty:

[Lil G]

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

Is that so nz muscle?

Can't recall Moe winning a show like the one your are describing!!!!!!!!!

So I guess he doesn't deserve a pro-card either?!!!!!!!

Guess 9th in the 'Mr O' and 2nd at the Iron Man this year is'nt good enough for you ha?!!!!!!!! :naughty:

http://www.xnh.co.nz

How did you get your Pro Card Grant?

Getting a little over defensive here arent we? Geez

Farout dude this question was put to rest months ago, Would you like it again?

[nzmusclemonster]

Same issues year after year.

The NZFBB committee must be pretty busy to not be able to get it sorted.

[Dr.Jackal]

Is it not public knowledge who vote's for or against a pro card application or any other executive matter? if it is not It deffinatly should be, if you can't openly stand behind your position and give reason as to why or why not you support an application maby you shouldn't be making the decision's in the first place???

For there to be any trust in a federation there needs to be full transparency on all matters.

[MasterTel]

Same issues year after year.

The NZFBB committee must be pretty busy to not be able to get it sorted.

Most of us are very busy, NZMM, but I don't quite see your point. What do we need to get sorted?

We have a process to accept Pro card applications, and we have endorsed five successful applications (Mike K, Salah, Mike D, Jacqui & Grant) in the past four years. We also endorsed an application from Moe in 2005, but at the time he was not a NZ citizen, so he had to find another path to getting his card. Not sure why Darryl was mentioned as being denied - he never submitted a formal request to the Exec for a Pro card.

Of course there will be debate on whether someone deserves a Pro card or not - just like there will be debate at most events about who should have won a particular class or Overall title.

Sure, we could have very clearly defined criteria for a Pro card application to be considered, but this will never be foolproof. e.g. as Mike K has pointed out - Moe finished 7th at the IFBB Amateur World Champs in 2004 but within 4 years he was stepping on the Mr Olympia stage (having qualified twice)... which many very good Pros never get to do. If we restricted the criteria to force competitors to place say top-3 at the Arnold Classic Amateur event or perhaps top-5 at the IFBB World champs, then Moe would not have been able to apply.

Hey - this has been (mainly) a very constructive post. Certainly there are things here which can be considered at future Exec meetings in regards to possible changes to the Pro card application/qualification process. :clap:

[AllenNZ]

quote:

We have a process to accept Pro card applications, and we have endorsed five successful applications (Mike K, Salah, Mike D, Jacqui & Grant) in the past four years. :

I was an Exec at the time Mike K, Salah, and Jacqui were asking for a pro card and the only one that came to the meetings was Salah as for Mike K and Jacqui to my knowledge went to Mark S and he did it on his own. I did not see any correspondant come my way or to the other Exec about them wanting a pro card.

Thats why the NZFBB needs a clean out of the old boys

[Lil G]

Ha MasterTel

Whats the haps down south? Haha or how have things been?

Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about you. You have proven that you are their for the athletes, it's the two that Mike K is talking about that I would like to be named.

Question? As members are we allowed to sit in on committee meeting or not? As I would love to hear what gets talked about.

I attended one and believe you me the things which got layed out on the table shocked me. I think members should know what is happening or most important, what has happened.

[Loochi]

Lol at people gettin mad over nothing.

[MasterTel]

I was an Exec at the time Mike K, Salah, and Jacqui were asking for a pro card and the only one that came to the meetings was Salah as for Mike K and Jacqui to my knowledge went to Mark S and he did it on his own. I did not see any correspondant come my way or to the other Exec about them wanting a pro card.

Thats why the NZFBB needs a clean out of the old boys

You might want to check your facts, Allen. Yes, Salah attended the meeting on Feb 25, 2007 to present his case and have his Pro card application endorsed.

I'm fairly sure you were not on the Exec when Jacqui made her two applications - but I do know at least that you were not at either meeting: July 9, 2007 - Jacqui's first application was declined; Feb 10, 2008 - Jacqui (having won the overall title at the 2007 NZ Nationals) had her second application approved by a majority vote from the Exec ... nothing to do with getting it from Mark S.

Still looking for details about Mike K's application - perhaps he can elaborate?

It is not compulsory for candidate to be at a meeting to have their application considered.

As for having a clean out of the "old boys" - not sure if you are referring to a few or all of us, but perhaps some of them have already gone?

[MasterTel]

Ha MasterTel

Whats the haps down south? Haha or how have things been?

Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about you. You have proven that you are their for the athletes, it's the two that Mike K is talking about that I would like to be named.

Question? As members are we allowed to sit in on committee meeting or not? As I would love to hear what gets talked about.

I attended one and believe you me the things which got layed out on the table shocked me. I think members should know what is happening or most important, what has happened.

Hey G - I'm good, thanks - how are you?

Good question about members sitting in on Exec meetings. We have had "observers" at several of our meetings, and to be honest I don't know what the exact rules are. I'll find out and let everyone know.

I do agree that there should be a high level of transparency with decisions made by the Exec and we (as Execs) need to be held accountable for those decisions.

[AllenNZ]

Quote:

As for having a clean out of the "old boys" - not sure if you are referring to a few or all of us, but perhaps some of them have already gone?:

No MT just the old blood as you are still new blood in the NZFBB.

And as for the other comments i was just saying what i new and it's good that you still remember things.

Allen.

[MasterTel]

Thanks, Allen - my memory isn't perfect either, but it helps to know where I store important info in case I need it!

I also like to make sure that any facts are clarified as it doesn't take much for rumours to escalate! :nod:

[michaelk]

I was an Exec at the time Mike K, Salah, and Jacqui were asking for a pro card and the only one that came to the meetings was Salah as for Mike K and Jacqui to my knowledge went to Mark S and he did it on his own.

I did as I was instructed, went to Marks place, filled out the form, paid the money (bank cheque to IFBB Pro league US$200), and I missed Salah by about half an hour who did the same, so I don't know why he went to the meeting, whether he was instructed, requested or volunteered to do so.

The pics are on Jo's website of the day we did it for anyone who wants to check, at no time was I informed that I had to do any more or less.

[michaelk]

Well I think we all should hear who these two people are.

The reason being, because all of them have said, "that I deserve the pro-card" to my face. Also saying that they believe in 4 to 5 years I have the potential to beat Moe.

So lets cut the bull, because as a member I would like honesty and not backstabers on the committee, the very people we have running this federation. So I know who to vote for and who not to.

I have a lot of respect for you Mike. Do we really want people like that on the board?... hmmmmmmm

Sorry mate, I'm not budging on this, if you or anyone does not agree with me withholding opinions offered in confidence well then all I can do is offer my apologies and point that if the boot was on the other foot, I'd withhold your name if asked too.

I don't agree that everyone should know what is said, just because someone is a member of this board does not make them a member of the federation or in any way associated, and therefore they have no need or absolute right to know anything.

Thats just the way I do it,

the people on the committee may have said that too your face- and very likely meant it at the time but this ONE person from the committee (not all so calling them backstabbers is far from an accurate statement) could well have changed their mind, hell I might have just caught them on a bad day for all I know.

The other committee member was talking about Salah not you.

I did try and ring you about it yesterday before posting to clarify my position personally, but just got your voicemail so didn't leave a message.

[Lil G]

OK Mike.

When I am paying a fee every year to be a member of the nzfbb, I sure as hell want to know whats happening. After all if it wasn't for the members, their would be no nzfbb.

You are the very one who turned up to a meeting, and because you had not payed your fee of a lousy $45. Was asked to leave & spat the dummy.

We as members have the right to know whats happening, after all it is our money they are playing with. Im sure everyone would like to know future plans of this federation & where its heading...... :nod:

[michaelk]

OK Mike.

When I am paying a fee every year to be a member of the nzfbb, I sure as hell want to know whats happening. After all if it wasn't for the members, their would be no nzfbb.

You are the very one who turned up to a meeting, and because you had not payed your fee of a lousy $45. Was asked to leave & spat the dummy.

We as members have the right to know whats happening, after all it is our money they are playing with. Im sure everyone would like to know future plans of this federation & where its heading...... :nod:

You are 100% right there, as a paying member full disclosure of the financials should be disclosed to all members.

however to correct you on your other point, I was the one that was ASKED to turn up and VOLUNTEER MY TIME by two members of the committee and a long term respected member of the federation.

I was rightly offended when a senior committee member made a reference to my "showing no committment"- that same person had no qualms asking me to organize sponsorship from BSc for their event, not to mention I have a 19year association with the NZFBB, which I see as a pretty reasonable level of committment- do you?

Also, as you will remember, there was an opinion shared by another executive member at that very time that the US$200 a year membership I do pay to the parent body, the IFBB outweighed the lousy $45 that you had paid, I tend to agree with them on that one.

So please don't imply that I spat the dummy over $45.

I was insulted at the lack of committment comment.

thats the full story.

Now, rather than worrying about what someone has said about your Pro credentials (as others have said about mine), you have the card...end of story, what you do with it is now up to you: PROVE THEM WRONG.

Thats the end of it from me about that issue, I'll be happy to continue discussing my theories about Pro qualification standard requirments.

[Loochi]

Michael you look awesome in your pic. Will you guest pose on the 3rd Oct in Hamilton ? (curious) I'm a noob by the way so I don't really know who you are. Just Grant, Moe, Nato lol.

[MasterTel]

Hey - if you can't get an IFBB Pro card, then for just US$19.95 you can get the T-shirt!! :pfft:

Found this on http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tshir ... shirt.html

Description: An essential piece for every bodybuilder's wardrobe - show you belong with the world's best when you wear this classic, raised screen-printed "IFBB PRO Logo" graphic T-shirt. This shirt features the IFBB PRO brandlogo on the left sleeve.

You enjoy wearing this easy crewneck cut T-shirt in high-quality cotton jersey, pre-washed for softness.

Price: Only $19.95!

[Lil G]

Hey - if you can't get an IFBB Pro card, then for just US$19.95 you can get the T-shirt!! :pfft:

Found this on http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tshir ... shirt.html

Description: An essential piece for every bodybuilder's wardrobe - show you belong with the world's best when you wear this classic, raised screen-printed "IFBB PRO Logo" graphic T-shirt. This shirt features the IFBB PRO brandlogo on the left sleeve.

You enjoy wearing this easy crewneck cut T-shirt in high-quality cotton jersey, pre-washed for softness.

Price: Only $19.95!

Well said Mastertel Evan Cheaper IFBB pro badges 95c ... :pfft:

[mr natural]

Hey - if you can't get an IFBB Pro card, then for just US$19.95 you can get the T-shirt!! :pfft:

Found this on http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tshir ... shirt.html

Description: An essential piece for every bodybuilder's wardrobe - show you belong with the world's best when you wear this classic, raised screen-printed "IFBB PRO Logo" graphic T-shirt. This shirt features the IFBB PRO brandlogo on the left sleeve.

You enjoy wearing this easy crewneck cut T-shirt in high-quality cotton jersey, pre-washed for softness.

Price: Only $19.95!

can you get em in xtra small ?, i wanna join the pro league :pfft:

[Optimass]

Interesting thread.. as has already been stated, I don't think it matters how our current pros got their cards - As a fan of the sport, ex-competitor and patriotic kiwi, I'm more interested in what you guys do with them moving forward.

To quote Vin Diesel from The Fast and the Furious:

"It does matter if you win by an inch, or a mile. Winnings winning!"

...............................................

In reading the posts there seems to be a lot of inconsistancy which hopefully the new NZFBB leadership will address .... I think a lot of which will ease with transparency - again as has already been stated.

For the federation and members it's about what we do tomorrow to ensure our future champions have an even playing field to achieve there dream (pro) status. I don't think if the bar was lowered some that this would lesson the respect and achievement of our current pros achievements.

What it will definately do is encourage more competitors to put themselves out there to have a go. It broadens the belief that there is a chance after soo many years - you can actually get a pro card in NZ.

I knew Salah when he was a skinny teen coming to the gym after school with his mates. They would be there for 3 hours some nights. He has lived and breathed the sport, and never let go of the belief that one day he would be pro. I would talk to him during training and talk shop - he was always interested in what us older guys were doing. If we were posing he would come in and pose with us - (a big call when you are measuring yourself against guys that were 20kg heavier - no fear :nod: ) Salah has the card because he believed in himself, and had faith in his belief enough to back himself. He did more than most to obtain his dream, more than I thought he could (But that was me putting limitations on myself). Whilst he didn't win the overall he showed enough commitment in the time I had seen him training at Te Atatu to earn the card. I'm sure the other pros will have similar stories of commitment .... thats why they are all champions.

Since he, MikeK, Jacqui and Grant have earned their cards the interest in NZ Bodybuilding has certainly grown. (Not discount the impact Moe has had on the sport) The unachievable has become the achievable - lets hope the NZFBB continues to encourage ... as stated above Transparent even playfield.

My 2c

[musclenz]

Well put as always Optimass :nod:

[nate225]

I would like to see a system that would attract all the best competitors in NZ to the NZFBB shows- Mark Anderson is a classic - should be a Pro, but can't through NABBA- and would excel in the Pro forum, for those that don't know, I think Mark is the 2nd best male bodybuilder in NZ behind the obvious.

LMAO - Mike K - I think Mark's one step ahead of many people here and has probably realised there is no reason to be an IFBB Pro! Other than the 'living the dream' thing of course.

Financially for most people it is a license to burn money, unless you make it big and I'm guessing this is limited to perhap 20 or so of the hundreds of pro's out there.

Another Pro competitor I spoke to mentioned in his opinion the better option for most top BBers would be to stay amatuer and compete at the Worlds (and take what funding they can get). Only a minute percentage of bodybuilders had in his opinion what it takes to make a career of BBing, (dont let it stop you though folks - might wanna watch bigger stronger faster as a reality check & see if you're starting to resemble the guy living in his van at Golds :pfft: ).

On an aside what does it take to do a Pro show and be in the money? I've heard figures from $30 - 70K with most of this self funded? Is this realistic?

Your thoughts?

Nate