Pro Card?

[Pete_S]

Interested to understand what the detailed pathway is to become an IFBB Pro as the current rules stand. Do you just have to win an overall national title or is there more to it then this - applications, references, interviews, etc etc. Also are the rules different for each IFBB affiliated country or the same throughout the world?

[1day]

to get the most direct answers u might be better to go onto the official site (ie nzfbb.org.nz) and contact the president or one of the commitete members direct.

[MasterTel]

As someone who has been on the NZFBB Exec for the past four years (during which time we have endorsed five Pro card applications) I can tell you the current situation.

There is no strict or definite qualification path or standard e.g. having a Pro qualifying event where at least one person is guaranteed a card. Any NZFBB member can apply for a Pro card. Ideally they will have won the Overall title at a recent NZFBB Nationals, but this is not essential - 2 of the 5 who were approved did not win an Overall title. Obviously we look at their recent performance on stage, have they been loyal to the NZFBB for a reasonable period, what is their potential to be a good IFBB Professional athlete etc.

I know some people feel there should be clearly defined criteria, and that it seems too "easy" to get a Pro card. For a while many people were complaining that it was too hard to get a card. You could have a Pro qualifier to guarantee a card, but the line-up could be weak and the winner gets a card when they perhaps aren't up to scratch.

Like the drug testing situation, there will always be debate on the right and wrong way to do things. For now, with all matters like this, the NZFBB Executive are always striving to make the best decisions for our members.

[1day]

to get the most direct answers u might be better to go onto the official site (ie nzfbb.org.nz) and contact the president or one of the commitete members direct.

or MasterTel can explain it :pfft:

[michaelk]

There is no strict or definite qualification path or standard.....

I know some people feel there should be clearly defined criteria, and that it seems too "easy" to get a Pro card.... many people were complaining that it was too hard to get a card.

I would like to see a specified required platform laid out for qualification, if it's too easy if devalues the effort of some and for those complaining it was too hard.....maybe they just weren't good enough!

Every sport has its nearly men and so close stories; in Bodybuilding its been Edgar Fletcher and Matt Mendanhal in the States; sad for them but it adds to the value, credibility, mystique and mana of the card by the standard held by those that could not achieve it.

Perhaps the new committee might be inclined to look at implementing a standard, I've been told by two different committee members that they didn't think that the two awarded pro cards (who didn't win the overall) really should have been given them- except for the fact there was no reason or qualification standard to exempt them.

The past is the past, lets look forward and make the card an achievable and structured goal. Where everyone knows where they stand.

[Android]

An aside form Pro cards there are titles right?

Is it right to assume that the Overall winner at the Nationals is Mr. New Zealand (NZFBB Mr Zealand)...is that how it works. And the winner of a regional show like the Auckland champs, does the Overall winner become Mr. Auckland for a year?

[MasterTel]

An aside form Pro cards there are titles right?

Is it right to assume that the Overall winner at the Nationals is Mr. New Zealand (NZFBB Mr Zealand)...is that how it works. And the winner of a regional show like the Auckland champs, does the Overall winner become Mr. Auckland for a year?

That sounds spot on to me, Mr Coromandel 2008! :clap:

IMO there are only two guys who can be Mr New Zealand any particular year - the winner of the NZFBB Nationals overall title and the NABBA Nationals overall champ.

[Lil G]

Perhaps the new committee might be inclined to look at implementing a standard, I've been told by two different committee members that they didn't think that the two awarded pro cards (who didn't win the overall) really should have been given them- except for the fact there was no reason or qualification standard to exempt them..

Is that so Mr Mike?

If I can recal correctly one of those guys you are talking about beat you at the NZ Elite Pro Show.

Do you wish to enlighten us on the commitee members, or is that a secret tooo.

Hmmmmm I wonder which 2 athletes???...lol

[Android]

An aside form Pro cards there are titles right?

Is it right to assume that the Overall winner at the Nationals is Mr. New Zealand (NZFBB Mr Zealand)...is that how it works. And the winner of a regional show like the Auckland champs, does the Overall winner become Mr. Auckland for a year?

That sounds spot on to me, Mr Coromandel 2008! :clap:

IMO there are only two guys who can be Mr New Zealand any particular year - the winner of the NZFBB Nationals overall title and the NABBA Nationals overall champ.

Thanks Terry I've been looking forward all year to the Nationals! Been advised to do CNIs so I don't turn up rusty though so will step up to the Open class.

Great a title is something achievable based on a single result which is what many of us look for when setting goals.

The Pro card I think is also a great achievement but reaching for one may disappoint some talented people if it's a little judgmental...if I read the conditions correctly

[Android]

Every sport has its nearly men and so close stories; in Bodybuilding its been Edgar Fletcher and Matt Mendanhal in the States; sad for them but it adds to the value, credibility, mystique and mana of the card by the standard held by those that could not achieve it.

Just to be sure I'm reading this right ... you're saying it's good to let talented people drop-off just to hold-up it's value, credibility, mystique and mana?

Really?

I also (assuming you agree) don't think a Pro card should be based solely on results I think there's a Pro-standard that we should aspire to reach.

There's a certain look about a conditioned Pro and I don't think every winner at a major show necessarily has those Pro qualities.

Tough job to pick 'em when the application comes in, that's all I can say!

[samoan_muscle]

Perhaps the new committee might be inclined to look at implementing a standard, I've been told by two different committee members that they didn't think that the two awarded pro cards (who didn't win the overall) really should have been given them- except for the fact there was no reason or qualification standard to exempt them..

Is that so Mr Mike?

If I can recal correctly one of those guys you are talking about beat you at the NZ Elite Pro Show.

Do you wish to enlighten us on the commitee members, or is that a secret tooo.

Hmmmmm I wonder which 2 athletes???...lol

Lil G = Grant?

[musclenz]

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

[Mini_Ruhl]

Perhaps the new committee might be inclined to look at implementing a standard, I've been told by two different committee members that they didn't think that the two awarded pro cards (who didn't win the overall) really should have been given them- except for the fact there was no reason or qualification standard to exempt them..

Is that so Mr Mike?

If I can recal correctly one of those guys you are talking about beat you at the NZ Elite Pro Show.

Do you wish to enlighten us on the commitee members, or is that a secret tooo.

Hmmmmm I wonder which 2 athletes???...lol

Owned!

[Lil G]

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

Is that so nz muscle?

Can't recall Moe winning a show like the one your are describing!!!!!!!!!

So I guess he doesn't deserve a pro-card either?!!!!!!!

Guess 9th in the 'Mr O' and 2nd at the Iron Man this year is'nt good enough for you ha?!!!!!!!! :naughty:

www.xnh.co.nz

[bigmd]

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

If this was true we would only have jo stewart as a pro, every NZ pro Athlete that we have, has not acheived anything of this standard. i agree that there does need to be a more strict pro slection Process, BUT in saying that i 2nd (as en exec) one of those procards where the athlete did not win the overall NZ title. Why?? because there was nothing saying he couldn't. and you can only run with the rules that are present at the time. id like to see overall NZ title holders be eligible or Atheletes that have won 2 or 3 consective yrs in their class.

[michaelk]

Is that so Mr Mike?

If I can recal correctly one of those guys you are talking about beat you at the NZ Elite Pro Show.

Do you wish to enlighten us on the commitee members, or is that a secret tooo.

Hmmmmm I wonder which 2 athletes???...lol

Owned!

I'll let my competitive record against both these guys speak for itself

No G, I won't name names, I have been told in confidence opinions about both yours and Salah's pro applications, that I choose not to share those sources publicly-

Believe me I know there were plenty of people who questioned my right to a pro card also.

Your specifically was a tough one for me to have a postion on, as I have told you personally, your long term committment to the federation also needed consideration and acknowlegment.

My point is really, I'd like to see a defined process for qualification- as it stands now a novice mens 3rd place getter could legitimately apply for their card and I don't think that is how it should be.

I have stated previously that both you and Salah under the system I'd like to see, would not have recieved approval for your applications, and that I also think that you both would have eventually through winning an Overall Mr NZ (which I think you were odds on for this year) or winning you category twice.

I was chatting with an Elite competitor just this morning, and they were trying to understand the best process for them to get their Pro qualification- the fact that it is not clearly understood, only strengthens my opinion that it should be better defined.

I would like to see a system that would attract all the best competitors in NZ to the NZFBB shows- Mark Anderson is a classic - should be a Pro, but can't through NABBA- and would excel in the Pro forum, for those that don't know, I think Mark is the 2nd best male bodybuilder in NZ behind the obvious.

Speaking of the Obvious....

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

can't agree to that high standard, 7th place in the 2004 Worlds went to the guy that placed 9th in the last Olympia, can't say that not placing top two was a credential for future success.

Just to be sure I'm reading this right ... you're saying it's good to let talented people drop-off just to hold-up it's value, credibility, mystique and mana?

Really?

Thats right, just like not every top rugby player deserves and All Black jersey, and there has been recent criticism of the cheapening of the jersey but its being given away too lightly...every sport has its nearly men.

I also (assuming you agree) don't think a Pro card should be based solely on results I think there's a Pro-standard that we should aspire to reach.

There's a certain look about a conditioned Pro and I don't think every winner at a major show necessarily has those Pro qualities.

Tough job to pick 'em when the application comes in, that's all I can say!

not sure if you mean that the winners at the top amateur shows or top pro shows always achieve it, either way I wouldn't necessarily agree.

If there is a qualification standard met (like a placing or performance time for olympic qualification) then the person has qualified. I would see it as a rarety where someone would meet the standard I'd prefer who didn't know enough about the sport to understand how they would fare in the Pro leagues. There may be the odd anomily, but that is the price paid by having a standard - not everyone who qualifies for the Olympics brings home the gold either.

Not placing in the Top 5 of a Pro show, does also enable an athlete to return to the amateur stage as an Elite- this choice has been made by both fellow BSC Athlete Charles Duca, Adrian Bathos, Mick Scionti and Neil Gardner in Aus, as Neil put it- he realized where he stood and his decision was a reflection of what he was wanting to acheive in the sport of competitive bodybuilding.

Having said that, I would be open to opinion about the final hurdle being the consideration of a selection panel (perhaps the existing pros as potential future peers). As it currently stands that is all there is, a panel who decide with no qualfication standard to be met other than "being in good standing with the governing body".

Long post I know :shifty:

[Nane']

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

Is that so nz muscle?

Can't recall Moe winning a show like the one your are describing!!!!!!!!!

So I guess he doesn't deserve a pro-card either?!!!!!!!

Guess 9th in the 'Mr O' and 2nd at the Iron Man this year is'nt good enough for you ha?!!!!!!!! :naughty:

http://www.xnh.co.nz

How did you get your Pro Card Grant?

Getting a little over defensive here arent we? Geez

[Android]

as usual things become a slanging match, the question was what r the rules to this process, not who deserved what or how someone feels about another pro getting their card.

so through the fog of crap we've established that it's a selection process based around a multitude of variables.

I think MD was angling towards offering a card at a major show, is that right? which may or may not go to the winner I guess, which is what they do in a few other countries.

Is the difference between that and now that the Pro card is offered to someone, and not requested or applied for?

[Small]

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

Is that so nz muscle?

Can't recall Moe winning a show like the one your are describing!!!!!!!!!

So I guess he doesn't deserve a pro-card either?!!!!!!!

Guess 9th in the 'Mr O' and 2nd at the Iron Man this year is'nt good enough for you ha?!!!!!!!! :naughty:

http://www.xnh.co.nz

How did you get your Pro Card Grant?

Getting a little over defensive here arent we? Geez

im just going to throw this out there-how are you guys (Nane' and Mk) establishing this is grant-esp as he already has an a/c on here Grant&Ses

Just because the user name is Lil G and the pic is of him [? i think] doesn't nessacarily mean its him...just like John_Stamos :roll:

[michaelk]

im just going to throw this out there-how are you guys (Nane' and Mk) establishing this is grant-esp as he already has an a/c on here Grant&Ses

Just because the user name is Lil G and the pic is of him [? i think] doesn't nessacarily mean its him...just like John_Stamos :roll:

...and putting Grant and Sesa's website at the bottom,

I'm assuming its Grant

More importantly you mean thats not the REAL John Stamos!!!???

Android, Mike D's idea is that the winner of the overall MR NZ gets the Pro card if they want to apply for it - and remember a high number of winners have not wanted to but preferred representing NZ at the Worlds instead- and if that is the case, then the next in line should be entitled to apply.

As it currently stands, anyone...even Mr Corommandal....can apply.

[Small]

More importantly you mean thats not the REAL John Stamos!!!???

mm watever dude you know wat i was implying

anyone can come on here pretending to be someone else-just by puting a website and having a few pulled pics dont mean that its actually them

[Pete_S]

im just going to throw this out there-how are you guys (Nane' and Mk) establishing this is grant-esp as he already has an a/c on here Grant&Ses

Just because the user name is Lil G and the pic is of him [? i think] doesn't nessacarily mean its him...just like John_Stamos :roll:

...and putting Grant and Sesa's website at the bottom,

I'm assuming its Grant

More importantly you mean thats not the REAL John Stamos!!!???

Android, Mike D's idea is that the winner of the overall MR NZ gets the Pro card if they want to apply for it - and remember a high number of winners have not wanted to but preferred representing NZ at the Worlds instead- and if that is the case, then the next in line should be entitled to apply.

As it currently stands, anyone...even Mr Corommandal....can apply.

Firstly, I like the notion that the overall nationals winner automatically qualifies for the right to obtain a Pro Card if they so wish whatever category/class they come from.

However, some thought could also be given to the nationals winner in the heaviest open class (if they don't win the overall) as, lets face it, any NZ pro will have to be competitive to some degree with "size" on the circuit. Now there will be a lot of lighter bodybuilders out there who don't buy the "mass" argument and will argue their symmetry, conditioning etc etc just because that's their strength and that's intirely their perogative.

Perhaps the NZFBB could consider whether the athlete applying for their Pro Card has the potential to do reasonably well on the international circuit (and this could be the discretionary aspect to give some of the lighter guys who win the overall the approval of their application).

Just food for thought..........

[Monopoly Man]

What weight divisions have all our Pro's won their cards in?

I know Grant was in the 90kg+, but how about you Mike K, Big MD....???

[musclenz]

New Zealand Pro-Contenders should be placing 1 or 2 in their respective category at a major International Event like the Arnold Amateur to have any right to Pro Status in New Zealand or chance of performing well in a Pro Career.

Is that so nz muscle?

Can't recall Moe winning a show like the one your are describing!!!!!!!!!

So I guess he doesn't deserve a pro-card either?!!!!!!!

Guess 9th in the 'Mr O' and 2nd at the Iron Man this year is'nt good enough for you ha?!!!!!!!! :naughty:

http://www.xnh.co.nz

Well you may well be right in that Moe did not compete at Arnold Amateur level, but then my understanding is, he did not get his Pro Card in New Zealand. This discussion is about trying to find a criteria that potential Pro Bodybuilders in New Zealand can aspire to. A defined course of action for qualification. I'm certainly not qualified to judge athletes on this matter, but I would have thought it logical to have met a degree of success on a relatively high ranking overseas stage as being essential in determining qualification for Pro Status.

[AllenNZ]

You don’t need to be big in kg to be a IFBB Pro as there is also the 202lb pro class that NZ guys can do in the pro league and if you start looking around you will find that it’s going to be a very popular class or they can look at doing the elite class.

Allen