Natural gains post cycle

[AgentOrange]

After reading what another forum user said about struggling with gains post cycle it got me thinking...

About 12 months ago now i completed a Test E cycle at 400mg per week for 10 weeks followed up by PCT of nolva @ 40/40/20/20... Prior to the cycle i had about 6 years training off and on under my belt but had no way tapped out my natural potential. In hindsight it was prob not the best decision of my life to go 'ON'.

Anyway 12 months down the track and a few set backs (injuries and medical problems) I'm back in the gym and training hard NATURALLY... Prior to the cycle i was an excellent natural gainer at 5'6-7ish I'm short but would achieve a decent stocky build after a few months high volume training and proper diet..

My question is: Is my natural ability/test going to be effected from the cycle all that time ago?, i'd quite like a 2nd chance, a chance to go hard naturally for a few years before revisiting the world of anabolics. However im worried ive could have somehow permanently hindered my ability to gain as a natty... Could 1 cycle all that time ago cause any major disruption to my nat test?

cheers

[Hone]

Yes 400mg of test each week for 10 weeks is going to shut you down. That dose is much much more than your natural test levels even through it is quite a low dose in regards to what guys cycle with.

Could you still be affected? there's a few factors that can come in such as your age, if you are a young fella you are pumping a lot more natural test then say a guy in his forties so that should help you to come back on line quicker.

To be honest your PCT was not the best, clomid with the nolva would of been better to aid in recovery and even better if you had run HCG during the cycle that would of kept the boys happy while you were on the cycle and in turn aids the clomid and nolva.

On the other hand I know guys who think PCT is shit and they tapper their cycles (old school style) and don't do any clomid, nolva etc when they come off their cycle.

I wouldn't worry about it too much mate. I think if you train hard, eat well your body will respond

[AgentOrange]

Could you still be affected? there's a few factors that can come in such as your age, if you are a young fella you are pumping a lot more natural test then say a guy in his forties so that should help you to come back on line quicker.

Im 26, and still get a raging morning glory... and harasses the missus for action regularly so thats got to be a good indication all is well down below does it not?

[nate225]

Could you still be affected? there's a few factors that can come in such as your age, if you are a young fella you are pumping a lot more natural test then say a guy in his forties so that should help you to come back on line quicker.

Im 26, and still get a raging morning glory... and harasses the missus for action regularly so thats got to be a good indication all is well down below does it not?

LOL - you'd think so.

Without speculating about the impact of anything you've done in the past it seems the easiest way to know for sure would be to ask the doctor to run hormone levels with your blood tests? Simple!

[AgentOrange]

Could you still be affected? there's a few factors that can come in such as your age, if you are a young fella you are pumping a lot more natural test then say a guy in his forties so that should help you to come back on line quicker.

Im 26, and still get a raging morning glory... and harasses the missus for action regularly so thats got to be a good indication all is well down below does it not?

LOL - you'd think so.

Without speculating about the impact of anything you've done in the past it seems the easiest way to know for sure would be to ask the doctor to run hormone levels with your blood tests? Simple!

i TRIED to do that last time i was at the Dr's, i didnt tell him about steroid uasage mind you. He was adament a test wasnt required as long as i felt horny im fine !? might be time for a new doc i'd rather not tell this guy about gear hes very 'by the book'

[trainharder]

Im 26, and still get a raging morning glory... and harasses the missus for action regularly so thats got to be a good indication all is well down below does it not?

LOL - you'd think so.

Without speculating about the impact of anything you've done in the past it seems the easiest way to know for sure would be to ask the doctor to run hormone levels with your blood tests? Simple!

i TRIED to do that last time i was at the Dr's, i didnt tell him about steroid uasage mind you. He was adament a test wasnt required as long as i felt horny im fine !? might be time for a new doc i'd rather not tell this guy about gear hes very 'by the book'

yep time for a new doctor speaking from experience i feel horny all the time as a guy but being able to do the bizzo post cycle as well as you could before you started taking certain supplements is another story.

evryone is different and what you require to bring your normal test levels back up could be different for someone else.

being able to pile drive your missus in the morning doesnt mean your back at your peak.

you will need to tell your doctor about what youve taken and insist on getting some tests...just be prepared to be lectured on the evils of drugs....

[quotejoss]

you don't need to go to the dr if u knw what tests you want

just pop along to a medlab, tell them what you want, pay th cash (way cheaper than a doc if its just 1 test) and bingo

when the results come they even hav a normal range guide so u can tell if u are in it

[AgentOrange]

you don't need to go to the dr if u knw what tests you want

just pop along to a medlab, tell them what you want, pay th cash (way cheaper than a doc if its just 1 test) and bingo

when the results come they even hav a normal range guide so u can tell if u are in it

is that right i can just goto medlab and ask?? Can somebody give me an indication of tests i should write down and request?? i'll post the results up for some more experienced members to make an analysis..

[quotejoss]

yes you can for test as i've done it before, thnk was 13 bucks

they ddnt even batt an eyelid when i asked

[OMCV6]

You really just need a Test for.

i) Serum testosterone (just a blood sample)

but...

Quiz them about getting a test for both the following also

ii) LH (lutenising Hormone). This is a pituritary hormone that signals the Leydig cells in the testes to manufacture Testosterone. (Chemically the same structure as HCG (human Choronic Gonadotrophin)

iii) FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) Again a pituritary hormone that signals the sertoli ceels in the testes to manufacture sperm.

If all x3 in normal range then no worries.

But you really need a baseleine to work with before you put AAS into your system,

An don't forget to allow for a certain % drop as the years go by, aging lowers test levels

[OMCV6]

You probbly have little to worry about...

In early 1990's the WHO (World Health Org) did a study on using Test esters for male contraception.

They selected 300 men from 7 different countries.

Gave them all 300-400mg of Test Cyp every week (might have been fortnightly?). Duration was 12 weeks from memory.

Results:

1) all 300 subjects sterile within 4-6 weeks I think

2) all 300 subjects had baseline sperm and test counts within 12 weeks of last injection I think.

3) 99% effectiveness of contraception c/f only 98% for the female pill (not bad!)

It is ussually PRO's that never come off gear and take mega doses for years on end that may have permanent issues with natural hormone levels that might never come back to normal...

But, hey this is serious abuse

[mr natural]

You probbly have little to worry about...

In early 1990's the WHO (World Health Org) did a study on using Test esters for male contraception.

They selected 300 men from 7 different countries.

Gave them all 300-400mg of Test Cyp every week (might have been fortnightly?). Duration was 12 weeks from memory.

Results:

1) all 300 subjects sterile within 4-6 weeks I think

2) all 300 subjects had baseline sperm and test counts within 12 weeks of last injection I think.

3) 99% effectiveness of contraception c/f only 98% for the female pill (not bad!)

thats crap, i know a few people that have unexpectant pregancies while on decent amounts of gear for decent amounts of time,its definelty not an effective male contaceptive

[OMCV6]

http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/ ... 990/1106/1

I ws going by memory when I wrote above info on study of Test Cyp

But, hey i was not too far wrong.

[OMCV6]

Below extract copied and pasted from following link. Note that Test Enthathe was the ester used

http://www.fhi.org/en/RH/Pubs/Network/v ... 183ch5.htm

The most comprehensive study to demonstrate this relationship was a two-year trial completed in 1994 by the World Health Organization (WHO) of injectable testosterone enanthate (TE), a synthetic derivative of testosterone. The study involved 399 men in nine countries in Asia, Australia, Europe and North America. The agent's contraceptive efficacy proved to be comparable to that of female hormonal methods. In 98 percent of the study subjects, TE weekly injections either totally suppressed sperm production or greatly reduced it, providing effective contraception. Furthermore, the method was reversible, with fertility restored within two to three months after the last injection.

[auck_builder]

interesting....

[OMCV6]

You probbly have little to worry about...

In early 1990's the WHO (World Health Org) did a study on using Test esters for male contraception.

They selected 300 men from 7 different countries.

Gave them all 300-400mg of Test Cyp every week (might have been fortnightly?). Duration was 12 weeks from memory.

Results:

1) all 300 subjects sterile within 4-6 weeks I think

2) all 300 subjects had baseline sperm and test counts within 12 weeks of last injection I think.

3) 99% effectiveness of contraception c/f only 98% for the female pill (not bad!)

thats crap, i know a few people that have unexpectant pregancies while on decent amounts of gear for decent amounts of time,its definelty not an effective male contaceptive

I suppose it is a bit hard to determine what doses of what meds they were using? some meds such as boldenone or masteron have a much lesser effect than Test esters when it comes to shutting down natural Test and spearm production.

Secondly, with much of the gear coming out of UG labs, you just never know exactly what med and exactly what dose you are taking... unless you personally get it tested by a lab. relying on a suppliers tests does not prove anything about exactly what turned up on your door step or in letterbox?

Always worries me, I know I am on some type of AAS, by listening to my body...

-increased appetite

-improved recovery

-better pumps

-strength and weight gains

-libido changes (yes sometimes reduced)

But.. it does not really tell me whether or not I was on exactly xxx mg of AAS "X, Y or Z"

[mr natural]

well i still say it takes only one to get the job done!

[Jasthace]

He was adament a test wasnt required as long as i felt horny im fine !?'

I come off a cycle 8 weeks ago,and my libido has been great,every time I wake up morning and night I have wood.So was very suprised when my bloods come back and my FSH LH were nearly nothing and test count{free}was 40{normal is 250-800}

Best to get bloods if you want to know where you really stand.

[HumanPerformance]

Youll be fine AgentOrange. The time duration since the cycle ,and low volume and length that you were on for , means you will have no effects on your own test levels now at all. It will no be as if you never had it, so dont worry

[mr natural]

stay away from the gear agent orange, it didn't work for ya! :pfft:

for that matter stay away from the weights as there not working for you either! :pfft:

[AgentOrange]

stay away from the gear agent orange, it didn't work for ya! :pfft:

for that matter stay away from the weights as there not working for you either! :pfft:

we'll see.. :twisted:

[musclenz]

If you can get them to measure Free Test in preference to Total Serum Testosterone you can get a better idea of how much test is biologically active ie. unbound to SHBG & albumin & available to be used in protein synthesis & cellular regeneration. Its normally only about 2-3% of Total Test. They may not do this as its more expensive. Also Estradiol to see how much estrogen is still floating around.

[Mrbig]

bro you can still gain naturally just depends how hard you work for it you wont recover the same az you do on the juice so eat more and rest more to many guys think that gear is the answer to building muscle which is bullshit just eat heaps and train your ass off

[OMCV6]

There is some truth to this, but, there is more to hard training and lots of eating.

The other key ingredient is listening to ones body, and knowing how to recover, and knowing when to go hard in the gym when the body is recovered and knowing when the body needs to take it easy.

Training hard and force feeding when the body when it is is not prepared is like flogging a dead horse.

Far too many workouts are wasted when the athlete forces himself when the body is no wanting it. I have seen this happen when idiot hero trainers try to train too hard to often and feel that they are doing the right thing.

Remember, when Cortisol levels rise then this cascades a series of catabolic pathways in the body.

Glucose tolerance is altered is the presence of high cortisol levels for the worse and recovery is slowed down.

AAS users don't have to worry so much about cortisol levels and recovery so much as cortisol effects mostly blocked by the overwhelming effects of the anabolic agents used. The body is much more capable of recovery with the enhanced state of nitrogen retention, increased rate of protein synthesis and anti-catabolic effects that AAS give on a cycle.

Short bouts of high intensity training are more effective at getting results, i have seen several clever guys make great gains naturally with just x2-3 45min -60 mins sessions per week in the gym and maybe only 1-2 heavy working sets on key exercises. Key hormone levels HGH and Test are stimulated to increase post work-out with short intense bouts of training, especially when compound movements like heavy squats are used.

The natural trainer walks a fine line between over training and making positive gains.

the wise trainer will only perform a hard-work out when he knows he will recover and profit from it.

eg, it would be foolish to go the gym after work on a Fri, not be able to get in a decent post workout shake, and a decent meal and of course a good nights sleep to get the recovery moving along.

I have seen guys go to the gym on a Fri night, do a hard work-out with heaps of heavy sets of sqauts, skip the post work-out shake then go out on the town with mates for a few beers, get home at 2-3AM and wonder why there legs are so sore for the rest of the week following. This is just plain DUMB, but quite a few people do it and keep doing it.

Remember that the bodies muscles don't get big and strong in the gym, but they get in the few days following by sensible rest, recovery, and of course good nutrition.

[auck_builder]

nice post! , alot of good points and facts