testosterone, help with weird side effects.

[samoan_muscle]

musclenz..

it is generally

regarded that some form of PCT will be required

after a cycle of testosterone of 200mg pw or more.

However, you could take a wait & see approach

provided you had Nolva

or an AI on hand to knock back

any estrogen issues

That does make perfect sense, the test patches (androgen) is becoming big business, but when docs prescribe it, there is never any mention of any sort of pct or AI, so Im assuming its ok to go with out nolvadex etc, if using small doses..

Otherwise the companies that are selling the androgen patches would be getting sued left right and center for causing gyno. Definitely will take your advice and make sure I have some at hand though..

You will find that the doctor won’t prescribe you with a PCT course. The general consensus amongst doctors here in NZ (in my opinion) is that PCT isn’t needed or required.

[Dr.Jackal]

musclenz..

it is generally

regarded that some form of PCT will be required

after a cycle of testosterone of 200mg pw or more.

However, you could take a wait & see approach

provided you had Nolva

or an AI on hand to knock back

any estrogen issues

That does make perfect sense, the test patches (androgen) is becoming big business, but when docs prescribe it, there is never any mention of any sort of pct or AI, so Im assuming its ok to go with out nolvadex etc, if using small doses..

Otherwise the companies that are selling the androgen patches would be getting sued left right and center for causing gyno. Definitely will take your advice and make sure I have some at hand though..

That is because when doctors prescribe it (legitimate doctors) they dont expect you to ever come off, TRT is a lifetime long choice. You dont go on then come off again.

[auck_builder]

what clinic is giving you free test patches and what dose are they lol?

[2guns]

what clinic is giving you free test patches and what dose are they lol?

:roll: uh oh...

[musclenz]

maybe confused, or more than likely its my limited knowledge, but for a fact, Im able to keep up with the young fellas in sparring etc when using.. Strength gains are good on minimal doses of test. Stamina increases. Muscle definitely increases, fat loss is brilliant. Ability to function in just every day life, thinking ability etc etc etc.. Its giving me every thing I want and more.. Maybe its just my goals are different to yours.. Lots of studies done on it.. Lots of people using it. just do a search on the anti aging clinics that are popping up everywhere now.. Watched a program the other day, its becoming very common in England where people in to their late 40s etc are using small doeses of test to help them compete and keep up with the youngsters.. They interviewed one guy that said, even if taking test caused my death eventually, I would rather have 10 more years living like this, than 30 more laying on the couch... So I dont think im confused.. If im missing something here, im more happy to be educated.. Its why I post in here, to learn from the knowledgable like yourself..

Bro, It was not my intention to come over high handed on your questions. I am well aware of the benefits of TRT & its growing popularity. I advocate using this form of therapy & have been endorsing its use, not so much on this board, but on some of the Intl boards I frequent where many people make this part of their life program & training regime. Like you. I believe that it has much to offer the "older" male as part of a physical & physiological approach to health & well being. Perhaps I did miss the point of your post, I apologise.

[mrgeeky]

what clinic is giving you free test patches and what dose are they lol?

auckbodybuilder.. Prescription from your (edited as I had forgotten the rule about source) .. I think you would need to be like myself, in your 40s or over to get it.. Dose is 2x 12.2mg a day. Each patch contains 12.2mg but only 2.5mg is absorbed. So total dose of 5mgs.. But of course, whos to stop you from doubling up.

I read this off another site.

Androderm is a transdermal patch, designed to release testosterone over a 24-hour period, in a natural pattern resembling that of a healthy young man. This product is being used primarily by older men who have reached an age in which there body no longer produces sufficient amounts of testosterone ("Andropause"). Each patch contains 12.2 or 24.3 gm of testosterone USP (17ß-hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one) dissolved in an alcohol-based gel, but according to the paperwork only about 2.5-5 mg is dispersed in each 24-hour application, depending on which patch you use. Two patches are most commonly used, and are applied to the abdomen, back, thigh, or upper arm. Athletes would no doubt find this dosage insufficient, and will likely avoid this product all together. Quite a number of patches would have to be used for a strong effect, making it much easier to use an injectable testosterone instead.

[mrgeeky]

musclenz sorry if you thought I was having a go. i wasnt. I didnt think you were trying to be heavy handed.. I like your posts and was just trying to give an honest reply. No offence taken and none intended..

cheers mate.

[mrgeeky]

been thinking.. Have used two different types of Testosterone now, both ended up with me with sore chest, coughing bad phlegm.. I think I have some sort of allergy to test.. So I cant really see injectible having a different effect.. Same product, just injected instead of absorbed..

I have used a lot of decca in the past, that was great, apart from some receding hair line which I was told wouldnt happen on decca.. lol

But yeah, I'm wondering, what next to consider.. Rather than test.. I have a few different sources, so I can get my hands on nearly anything so thats not an issue..

Any thoughts please?

[bulking]

Tamoxifen (nolva) on cycle isnt ideal as it lowers igf levels.

You want to control the estrogen via AI's. Exemestane(Aromasin) is the best as you wont get rebound after you stop but is expensive. Letrozole is next best but is to strong for many ie drying out, libido probs. Arimidex is used by many but is the poorest choice as it has a poor profile for lowering E2 in men and because it's competitive it will cause a rebound when you stop just like letro.

Trial and error I guess I use letro myself as I dont get the sides from it.

If your just using patches then Id guess your test levels will be in the normal range so no need but if you went to say 200 then Id think youd get away with using adex.

On a side note you should always run an AI on cycle. Its not just to stop gyno its for general health. Estrogen causes an increase in fat, high blood pressure, prostate enlargement and cancer, acne, mood swings ( roid rage), and a host of other long term problems.

Guys think they're getting away with not using an AI but they're not.

[bulking]

Eq if you want an injectible alternative, much lower andro/anabolic than test but you wont lose your hair... Any use of gear without Test is going to inhibit sexual function though

Tbol would be an option if your looking for a small boost, its mild and seems fairly non suppressive. Used it once but like var makes me lethargic as hell and kills appetite

[Hone]

Here's some ideas for you mr geeky. .

Test Enanthate and Tren Enanthate

Oxymethalone, Tren Acetate and Test Prop

Winstrol, Masteron and Test Prop

Test Enanthate, Masteron and Tren Enanthate

Test Prop, Tren Acetate and Masteron

Following is a good one taken pre workout will give you good strength and aggression. Do your research before using this as if taken in to a higher dose can be toxic to your liver.

Test Base, Tren Base, Methyltrienolone and Mibolerone.

let me know if you want the mg/ml doses

[musclenz]

Here's some ideas for you mr geeky. .

Test Enanthate and Tren Enanthate

Oxymethalone, Tren Acetate and Test Prop

Winstrol, Masteron and Test Prop

Test Enanthate, Masteron and Tren Enanthate

Test Prop, Tren Acetate and Masteron

Following is a good one taken pre workout will give you good strength and aggression. Do your research before using this as if taken in to a higher dose can be toxic to your liver.

Test Base, Tren Base, Methyltrienolone and Mibolerone.

let me know if you want the mg/ml doses

Thats some potent shit there Bro. Oral Tren & Cheque Drops are serious kick in the ass drugs. Would you care to elborate on how you use them & what doses pre workout.

[Hone]

testosterone base 50mg/ml, trenbolone base 50mg/ml, methyltrienolone 1mg/ml, mibolerone 500mcg/ml. The stuff I get comes in a 10ml vial. I inject 0.5ml about an hour and a half before my workout. Gives me a great strength and aggression lift.

[Dr.Jackal]

testosterone base 50mg/ml, trenbolone base 50mg/ml, methyltrienolone 1mg/ml, mibolerone 500mcg/ml. The stuff I get comes in a 10ml vial. I inject 0.5ml about an hour and a half before my workout. Gives me a great strength and aggression lift.

Shit that sounds like fun. Deffinatly not for the OP though

[bulking]

Hes looking for an alternative to test patches Hone, for a little boost. Tren, methyltrienolone and cheque drops will provide more boost than hes prepared for........ :shock: :shock:

I like your last option as a cutter for an exp user

Test Prop, Tren Acetate and Masteron . Throw in some GH and clen even better.

[Hone]

testosterone base 50mg/ml, trenbolone base 50mg/ml, methyltrienolone 1mg/ml, mibolerone 500mcg/ml. The stuff I get comes in a 10ml vial. I inject 0.5ml about an hour and a half before my workout. Gives me a great strength and aggression lift.

Shit that sounds like fun. Deffinatly not for the OP though

Yeah good stuff but need to be careful with it. Don't use any more than 4 weeks at a time when I am on a cycle. Would also be good for guys who maybe have hit a plateau and need something to give a bit of a boost.

[musclenz]

testosterone base 50mg/ml, trenbolone base 50mg/ml, methyltrienolone 1mg/ml, mibolerone 500mcg/ml. The stuff I get comes in a 10ml vial. I inject 0.5ml about an hour and a half before my workout. Gives me a great strength and aggression lift.

Ah yes I got that sorted now. Hows the liver & kidneys going? I guess its relatively low dose but you seem to be getting some results. Would you be able to run that more than say 4 weeks ED?

[Hone]

Hes looking for an alternative to test patches Hone, for a little boost. Tren, methyltrienolone and cheque drops will provide more boost than hes prepared for........ :shock: :shock:

I like your last option as a cutter for an exp user

Test Prop, Tren Acetate and Masteron . Throw in some GH and clen even better.

Woops just re read the post. Yep perhaps not what mrgeeky is after.

Another option to the above is oral cheque drops. Trying these soon in 2 week bursts at 250mcg about an hour before my workout. Will adjust timings and dose if need be. Apparently used a fair bit in the mixed martial arts/cage fighting scene.

test prop 100mg, tren ac 75mg and mast 75mg. Sounds good with the GH and clen. Like you said for someone with exp and who has got their diet nailed.

Hope I have got this sorted have had to edit about 6 times and move quotes!

[Hone]

testosterone base 50mg/ml, trenbolone base 50mg/ml, methyltrienolone 1mg/ml, mibolerone 500mcg/ml. The stuff I get comes in a 10ml vial. I inject 0.5ml about an hour and a half before my workout. Gives me a great strength and aggression lift.

Ah yes I got that sorted now. Hows the liver & kidneys going? I guess its relatively low dose but you seem to be getting some results. Would you be able to run that more than say 4 weeks ED?

I get bloods done after every cycle. Guys do go higher than what I use but I quite like my liver Maybe go up to a ml and try that sometime. No I don't go more than 4 weeks and again there are guys who use it a lot longer but not for me I'm afraid. In my mind there is a difference between steriod use and steriod abuse.

[mrgeeky]

thanks for the advice guys. bulking , still trying to decipher your posts after my last one.. And yep, your right, Im not after anything too heavy.. Im not a competitive bodybuilder and never will be.. I dont have the willpower to ever get strict enough with my diet.. My motabolisim is such that If I look sideways at a bit of choclate, I put on a stone.. Not any sort of an excuse, just a simple fact of life for me.. As far as weights go, and any M/A I do, its purely a hobby.. At 47, Im just playing around and enjoying myself.. thank you very much for the advice.. Just going back for a read..

[mrgeeky]

Tamoxifen (nolva) on cycle isnt ideal as it lowers igf levels.

You want to control the estrogen via AI's. Exemestane(Aromasin) is the best as you wont get rebound after you stop but is expensive. Letrozole is next best but is to strong for many ie drying out, libido probs. Arimidex is used by many but is the poorest choice as it has a poor profile for lowering E2 in men and because it's competitive it will cause a rebound when you stop just like letro.

Trial and error I guess I use letro myself as I dont get the sides from it.

If your just using patches then Id guess your test levels will be in the normal range so no need but if you went to say 200 then Id think youd get away with using adex.

On a side note you should always run an AI on cycle. Its not just to stop gyno its for general health. Estrogen causes an increase in fat, high blood pressure, prostate enlargement and cancer, acne, mood swings ( roid rage), and a host of other long term problems.

Guys think they're getting away with not using an AI but they're not.

ok, so if I understand what your saying, I can ignore taking anything after the cycle but should conentrate on AIs during the cycle instead. But then if Im keeping the doses of what ever roid im taking low, I could also get away with out any AI's.. Have I understsood that correctly?

[bulking]

Sorry thought I saw a Q about nolva during cycle so my post was a bit misleading. It depends what you run and for how long as to what PCT you would need. And yes with a mild non aromatising cycle an ai isnt needed. How long would you be running this 'cycle'?. Ive had friends run low dose tbol for 6 week periods with minimal shutdown.

[mrgeeky]

Please forgive me if I am repeating myself, but if I understand right, I can ignore any form of PCT if Im sticking to low doses, which I will be.. Thats seems to be the general consensus from what I have read and been told so far.. Hope i have that correct. Yes, I would be running aprox 6 weekly cycles..

Actually at the moment, Im making the biggest muscle gains I have ever made in my life due to a change in my training.. Long story, but guess Im a slow learner.. Listening to some advice has changed my muscle gain drastically. but thats another story..

As for taking juice, a little seems to achieve a lot for me, well all i need for now anyway, so Im happy keeping doses low for now.

Thank you bulking for your advice, its really appreciated..

[mrgeeky]

by the way, I will look in to the Equipose or the Tbol.. Again much appreciated.. thank you.

[bulking]

Well if you were to run an oral low dose for 6 weeks just for the boost it gave you for sports etc you might get away with no PCT. Everyone's different though, where one person might get shutdown alot another wont. Theres no way of knowing how bad you get shutdown untill you do a few cycles and learn as you go.

Ideally you'd have one bottle of nolva or the serm of your choice. For a 6 week oral you could also run this at lower dose ie 2 weeks at 20mg/day.

Oh and forget about eq if your running short cycles its a long ester. Turinabol or Anavar would be your best bet. 20mg/day for no pct(although I dont recommend no pct) With Pct 40-80 mg day.