Water Cutting - Myth

[nicksmith3]

I though't this would be a great topic, that would spark plenty of debate.

So here we go! :shock:

There's a balance between the subcatenous layer and the water in your muscles. The body uses it's 'survival' mechanism to maintain that balance at all costs. So if you cut water, all you're really doing is pulling water from the muscle bellies which causes you to look flat.

Since you're muscles are 70% water, even if you carb load you'll still look flat. So contest day i drink about two litres of water just to stay hydrated.

Sodium depleting is one thing you DO want to do. That way you're not holding onto any EXTRA water.

[tikalosh]

Lane Norton explained this:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/insidethelife6.htm

[auck_builder]

dont kill the thread i wana see some real life nzbb debate!!

[tikalosh]

Not much of a debate imo, pretty easy to understand. If you deplete water from one body compartment, body will try to achieve equilibrium by shifting water from other compartments into the depleted one.

With every gram of carb stored in muscle x amount (forgot the actual amount) of water is pulled in as well.

Should rather debate whether glutamine has any place in bbing coz i cant find any evidence of its effectiveness????

[Android]

LOL

The point is you can gain a better drier look by doing it. If you drink 2l of water on the day of the competition you aren't going to look as good as you could. It's easy to see the guys that drink water on the day of a show, they're sweating on stage and tan is running off them. If you are dry-as you won't have any sweat left to give. I never sweated for the Novice or Open class, but for Overalls I did and it's because I start sipping water I weaken at the end of the night and tired of feeling dry mouthed and I see some others enjoying a drink it makes me want some.

Look you might still look great, fantastic even, win the show! but you can get a better, drier, more defined look despite the 'facts' pointed out above, the way you present them it is as if you deplete and expect to stay in that dry state forever.

You can't, your body can and will over-compensate and swing. It's all about timing the depletion so that before your body swings in the other direction and tries to offset the loss, you've already been onstage and wow'd the crowd.

From experience always water deplete for a show and only carb deplete if you know what you are doing, else leave that to the pros.

If you carb deplete and water deplete and sodium load/ deplete and you end up looking flat I'm not sure how you can know which one you screwed up.

And don't expect much dryness or a large 'window' of opportunity if all you do is deplete water. You have to drink 10l a day 10 days out, then cut off the supply, at which time your body for 2 more days continues to expel water before it puts the breaks on.

It's the same with carb depletion/ loading. If you just limit carbs do a week of workouts and then load chances are you're gonna look 'average'. You have to train to drain every last carb from your muscle in order for your body to sponge up every single carb you consume on loading phase. We're talking training like you've never trained all year so don't think oh I did that, been there, bollocks. :-|

[Dr.Jackal]

I though't this would be a great topic, that would spark plenty of debate.

So here we go! :shock:

There's a balance between the subcatenous layer and the water in your muscles. The body uses it's 'survival' mechanism to maintain that balance at all costs. So if you cut water, all you're really doing is pulling water from the muscle bellies which causes you to look flat.

Since you're muscles are 70% water, even if you carb load you'll still look flat. So contest day i drink about two litres of water just to stay hydrated.

Sodium depleting is one thing you DO want to do. That way you're not holding onto any EXTRA water.

There many ways to achieve dryness, and what works for one will deffinatly not work for all. To many things to take into account, body fat percent, AAS used ( I believe MOST naturals will do much better not trying to load or depleat carbs and water) insulin, diuretics, laxatives, if you dieted keto/high carb, if your fat loading, carb loading, shit loading, sodium loading, using a vasodilator???

There can be no blanket statment on how best to come in dry, even from show to show for the same competitor, guys and girls that have the last week planned out down to the last detail before they even start there diet are kidding themselves, you need to be able to look at yourself (or better yet have someone who knows your body and what they are doing look at you) and adjust as need be, do you need that lasix/diazide? are you spilling over? do you need another 500gm carbs or maby a pizza? do you need a few IU of insulin?

It is completly individual, there is no best way to do it

[mr natural]

I though't this would be a great topic, that would spark plenty of debate.

So here we go! :shock:

There's a balance between the subcatenous layer and the water in your muscles. The body uses it's 'survival' mechanism to maintain that balance at all costs. So if you cut water, all you're really doing is pulling water from the muscle bellies which causes you to look flat.

Since you're muscles are 70% water, even if you carb load you'll still look flat. So contest day i drink about two litres of water just to stay hydrated.

Sodium depleting is one thing you DO want to do. That way you're not holding onto any EXTRA water.

lol,ok miss fitness olympia :pfft:

water depletion definatly worked for me. IMO if done right it will give a more defined look.

[nicksmith3]

Android. Dr Jackal.

You both have very valid points and concepts.

I'm inclined to go with Layne on his idea, due to him coming in extemely ripped even while consuming water contest day. So i think his point is valid also.

[michaelk]

Android. Dr Jackal.

You both have very valid points and concepts.

I'm inclined to go with Layne on his idea, due to him coming in extemely ripped even while consuming water contest day. So i think his point is valid also.

....looks watery to me.

You have to find the right combination for both water depletion and carb loading (and sodium loading too if you do it) depending on whether your going for total hardness or fullness.

By introducing the right amount of potassium at the right time, you create a level of intra cellular transfer whereby the body shuttles water from the skin to the muscles and excretes some too.

[Dr.Jackal]

Android. Dr Jackal.

You both have very valid points and concepts.

I'm inclined to go with Layne on his idea, due to him coming in extemely ripped even while consuming water contest day. So i think his point is valid also.

Thats great, go with that if it works for you, but dont just do it because thats what he does and thats how he looks.

And in that picture he doesnt look any drier than the average national level guy IMO.

[soundsgood]

They hold up Layne Norton as the poster boy for Natural Bodybuilding.

He does have an interesting off season routine. Bulks for 6 weeks then cuts for 2, then repeats. Makes its easy to hit his target weight at competition time I guess, but is he selling his gains short?

Thoughts?

[tikalosh]

LOL

The point is you can gain a better drier look by doing it. If you drink 2l of water on the day of the competition you aren't going to look as good as you could. It's easy to see the guys that drink water on the day of a show, they're sweating on stage and tan is running off them. If you are dry-as you won't have any sweat left to give. I never sweated for the Novice or Open class, but for Overalls I did and it's because I start sipping water I weaken at the end of the night and tired of feeling dry mouthed and I see some others enjoying a drink it makes me want some.

Look you might still look great, fantastic even, win the show! but you can get a better, drier, more defined look despite the 'facts' pointed out above, the way you present them it is as if you deplete and expect to stay in that dry state forever.

You can't, your body can and will over-compensate and swing. It's all about timing the depletion so that before your body swings in the other direction and tries to offset the loss, you've already been onstage and wow'd the crowd.

From experience always water deplete for a show and only carb deplete if you know what you are doing, else leave that to the pros.

If you carb deplete and water deplete and sodium load/ deplete and you end up looking flat I'm not sure how you can know which one you screwed up.

And don't expect much dryness or a large 'window' of opportunity if all you do is deplete water. You have to drink 10l a day 10 days out, then cut off the supply, at which time your body for 2 more days continues to expel water before it puts the breaks on.

It's the same with carb depletion/ loading. If you just limit carbs do a week of workouts and then load chances are you're gonna look 'average'. You have to train to drain every last carb from your muscle in order for your body to sponge up every single carb you consume on loading phase. We're talking training like you've never trained all year so don't think oh I did that, been there, bollocks. :-|

Couldn't you use something like pilocarpine? to block sweating/secretions or is this illegal at comps?

[Android]

Couldn't you use something like pilocarpine? to block sweating/secretions or is this illegal at comps?

Never heard of it.

I would never drink water on comp day even if it did dry up the sweat (well maybe I drink 200 mls, mostly I gargle it and then spit it out alot...kind of eases the urge abit) .

[nicksmith3]

They hold up Layne Norton as the poster boy for Natural Bodybuilding.

He does have an interesting off season routine. Bulks for 6 weeks then cuts for 2, then repeats. Makes its easy to hit his target weight at competition time I guess, but is he selling his gains short?

Thoughts?

I haven't used his method yet. I was thinking about it. But then again, you've got to take into account diff bodytypes, ie. ecto, meso, endo..

I'm some ecto and some meso, so my metabolism gets pretty high during the bulk season. Abs are generally still showing, even while consuming 4000+ calories a day. So, so far i don't see a point in running Layne's idea.. But i'll certainly consider it when i get older.. :grin:

As for selling his gains short. I wouldn't say that at all. If you check out his bodyspace, he actually states he's the leanest he's ever been at 'this' bodyweight through his progress photos. So during his offseason each year, he's able to put on more muscle and managing to stay leaner than the year before. I think that spells progress if anything..

[Matrix]

Pseudonym posted a great pre comp article by Fransisco Cassillo I think, which explains the science behind dropping water, but I cant remeber the link. Perhaps if you are reading this Pseudo, you might be able to help?

It elaborates on the fact that as you carb load, to store the carbs as glygogen, your body uses intacellular water to store the carbs and fill you out rather than dietary water as you are reducing/eliminating your intake of h20 during this process.

This helps eliminate that thin film of water under the skin that can blur definition (HOLDING WATER).

[tikalosh]

Pseudonym posted a great pre comp article by Fransisco Cassillo I think, which explains the science behind dropping water, but I cant remeber the link. Perhaps if you are reading this Pseudo, you might be able to help?

It elaborates on the fact that as you carb load, to store the carbs as glygogen, your body uses intacellular water to store the carbs and fill you out rather than dietary water as you are reducing/eliminating your intake of h20 during this process.

This helps eliminate that thin film of water under the skin that can blur definition (HOLDING WATER).

i just use a straw to feltch the water out

[startinfromscratch]

Pseudonym posted a great pre comp article by Fransisco Cassillo I think, which explains the science behind dropping water, but I cant remeber the link. Perhaps if you are reading this Pseudo, you might be able to help?

It elaborates on the fact that as you carb load, to store the carbs as glygogen, your body uses intacellular water to store the carbs and fill you out rather than dietary water as you are reducing/eliminating your intake of h20 during this process.

This helps eliminate that thin film of water under the skin that can blur definition (HOLDING WATER).

i just use a straw to feltch the water out

is your name steve-o? :pfft:

[Pseudonym]

Pseudonym posted a great pre comp article by Fransisco Cassillo I think, which explains the science behind dropping water, but I cant remeber the link. Perhaps if you are reading this Pseudo, you might be able to help?

Contest Preparation Using Science

[Optimass]

And don't expect much dryness or a large 'window' of opportunity if all you do is deplete water. You have to drink 10l a day 10 days out, then cut off the supply, at which time your body for 2 more days continues to expel water before it puts the breaks on.

It's the same with carb depletion/ loading. If you just limit carbs do a week of workouts and then load chances are you're gonna look 'average'. You have to train to drain every last carb from your muscle in order for your body to sponge up every single carb you consume on loading phase. We're talking training like you've never trained all year so don't think oh I did that, been there, bollocks. :-|

Agreed - good post - stop giving away the secrets bro or we may have to silence you .... :pfft: :shifty:

[SoaringSwine]

I have no idea/opinion on water cutting for a contest. I do have this to add though. This guy cut 10kg of water in 12 hours, he doesn't exactly look any "flatter".

Started at 250lb

12 hours later, 228lb...

[1day]

i bearly see a difference :shifty: , just that he standing with his elbows out more in second pic :roll:

[SoaringSwine]

i bearly see a difference :shifty: , just that he standing with his elbows out more in second pic :roll:

Make of it what you will. Just thought it was interesting to see what someone looked like once they had cut all their water weight.

[samoan_muscle]

Thats a terrible example SS...he is still holding alot of water plus he is fat.

The objective of "cutting water" is to be rid of subcutaneous water and the guy in your picture has definately not achieved this lol.

[mr natural]

he has sharpened up a little but probably not the best example

[Matrix]

I agree with Samoan Muscle here, Cutting water corectly can turn a ripped physique into a shredded physique. It will not, however get rid of fat, only water under the surface of the skin.

So if your really lean and have done your homework, it will help. If you haven't got rid of the fat,it probably won't help that much.