PCT!!!

[thatwaslight]

there seems to be no clomid or nolva available what are my options?

[AgentOrange]

why didnt you sort that out prior to you cycle??? maybe a taper??

[thatwaslight]

yeah i had it lined up but it fell through.

taper looks like the best option/ my only choice

[auck_builder]

.

[thatwaslight]

can get some nolva thank god!

read through the stuff on tapering/stasis period.

what is everyones opinions on tapering as a method of pct?

stasis lasts for 6 weeks but ill still be shut down right? this will not help starting natural production?

What are some of your typical pct's? i guy i know dosent use any pct at all

[AgentOrange]

its the best option even if u have nolva - way better for keeping gains

can you elaborate please auck builder?? nolva and tapering or taper then nolva??

[auck_builder]

.

[keats]

Tapering is pointles IMO. Your body will not start to produce test by itself until all the steroids injected is out. It doesn't matter what kind of steroid it is because they will all supress hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - . I think shorter esters like suspension or testosterone propionate would be bettter because you can have your body cleaned out and on Nolva therapy within the next day or so.

Tapering is old school. They used that technique with Suspension way back in the day. They have different Esters thus making the tapering process Automatic

[Hennie]

Get a nat test booster as well to boost your test levels and help your body reach "normal" test levels again sooner

[auck_builder]

im just talking holding gains wise between cycles. if u are just wanting to get your natural test cranking again dont taper, if u dont mind waiting another 12weeks and holding much more gains before next cycle then taper.

[Optimass]

How to Decrease Estrogen Levels in Men

Here are some tips to help restore the correct testosterone to estrogen balance in men.

Zinc

Zinc inhibits the enzyme aromatase. This is the enzyme responsible for converting estrogen into testosterone. Many men can restore proper testosterone levels through zinc alone. You should take approximately 50 mg of zinc twice daily until you see improvements. Once improvements have been noticed you can drop your dosage down to 50 mg daily. With this level of zinc intake you will want to add 2 mg’s of copper by supplementation. Most good multi vitamins will be adequate for your copper intake.

Your diet

In both men and women, fat cells breed aromatase. Fat cells also store excessive levels of estrogen. As you loose weight your ability to convert testosterone to estrogen will diminish, so should the systems of male menopause. Vegetables such as broccoli and cauliflower help stimulate the burning off extra estrogen.

Alcohol intake

If you are a heavy drinker, more than two drinks daily, you will disturb your natural hormonal levels. Alcohol significantly inhibits the clearance of estrogen from the bloodstream and it also decreases zinc levels.

Soy protein

Soy protein is high in isoflavones, which has a very similar chemical structure to human estrogen. High levels of soy protein compete with the estrogen for receptor sites in your body. You should really moderate or eliminate your soy protein intake.

Grapefruit

It may be an enemy to men who have high estrogen levels. It tends to inhibit the livers ability to break down estrogen. If you are man with high estrogen levels eliminate grapefruit from your diet.

[decade]

What are some of your typical pct's? i guy i know dosent use any pct at all

does he choose not to do pct? or doesnt he know u should

[thatwaslight]

hes been using for over 5 years and never has. i spoke to a doctor and he said pct is only imperitive if youve been using for years and levels should come back very quickly but i think its better 2 play on the safe side

[keats]

hes been using for over 5 years and never has. i spoke to a doctor and he said pct is only imperitive if youve been using for years and levels should come back very quickly but i think its better 2 play on the safe side

Mate, most doctors know shit about gear and pct.

[frogie2001]

I had a mate that got put in hospital during a cycle so crashed pretty hard. can say keep an eye on your depression levels, from the drop of hormone, until the natural test is restored. does anyone know how long the test levels take to bounce back?

[musclenz]

I had a mate that got put in hospital during a cycle so crashed pretty hard. can say keep an eye on your depression levels, from the drop of hormone, until the natural test is restored. does anyone know how long the test levels take to bounce back?

Depends on the length of the cycle, compounds used, doses taken, whether Hcg was used on cycle. Everyone is different in recovery time. Typically after a 12-14 week Test based cycle a good PCT protocol is Nolvadex 20mg ED + Aromasin 20mg Ed for 4-6 weeks. Clomid @ 50mg ED can be used to kick start the testes but it is not tolerated well by many. Hcg in PCT needs to be in the 4000iu range tapering out over 3-4 weeks, but this is always subject to availability & is more relevant to those coming off a longer cycle. Zinc supp or ZMA is very useful as well. For those that get depression going off cycle, its important to keep up your "on'"cycle training regime, diet & rest. Don't let this be a time to slacken off & keep away from the scales.

[thatwaslight]

I had a mate that got put in hospital during a cycle so crashed pretty hard. can say keep an eye on your depression levels, from the drop of hormone, until the natural test is restored. does anyone know how long the test levels take to bounce back?

Depends on the length of the cycle, compounds used, doses taken, whether Hcg was used on cycle. Everyone is different in recovery time. Typically after a 12-14 week Test based cycle a good PCT protocol is Nolvadex 20mg ED + Aromasin 20mg Ed for 4-6 weeks. Clomid @ 50mg ED can be used to kick start the testes but it is not tolerated well by many. Hcg in PCT needs to be in the 4000iu range tapering out over 3-4 weeks, but this is always subject to availability & is more relevant to those coming off a longer cycle. Zinc supp or ZMA is very useful as well. For those that get depression going off cycle, its important to keep up your "on'"cycle training regime, diet & rest. Don't let this be a time to slacken off & keep away from the scales.

ive been on Test E 11weeks and nandrolone for 8 of those what would you reccomend?

[frogie2001]

yeah, so we are looking at an 8 week recovery with PCT. how long will recovery of test take without PCT? I read one journal and it said that it could take up to around 3 months.

Good tip about keeping the training and diet when coming off cycle. In regards to the use of ZMA, does this help with test levels? I thought zinc aided in intensifying muscle contraction?

[musclenz]

I had a mate that got put in hospital during a cycle so crashed pretty hard. can say keep an eye on your depression levels, from the drop of hormone, until the natural test is restored. does anyone know how long the test levels take to bounce back?

Depends on the length of the cycle, compounds used, doses taken, whether Hcg was used on cycle. Everyone is different in recovery time. Typically after a 12-14 week Test based cycle a good PCT protocol is Nolvadex 20mg ED + Aromasin 20mg Ed for 4-6 weeks. Clomid @ 50mg ED can be used to kick start the testes but it is not tolerated well by many. Hcg in PCT needs to be in the 4000iu range tapering out over 3-4 weeks, but this is always subject to availability & is more relevant to those coming off a longer cycle. Zinc supp or ZMA is very useful as well. For those that get depression going off cycle, its important to keep up your "on'"cycle training regime, diet & rest. Don't let this be a time to slacken off & keep away from the scales.

ive been on Test E 11weeks and nandrolone for 8 of those what would you reccomend?

What doses? Any Progesterone/Prolactin issues from the nandrolone?

[musclenz]

yeah, so we are looking at an 8 week recovery with PCT. how long will recovery of test take without PCT? I read one journal and it said that it could take up to around 3 months.

Good tip about keeping the training and diet when coming off cycle. In regards to the use of ZMA, does this help with test levels? I thought zinc aided in intensifying muscle contraction?

Zinc is necessary for normal serum testosterone production & the release of FH & FSH from the pituitary gland. It also inhibits aromatase of test into estrogen. It is essential in DNA & protein synthesis, muscle repair & growth. Min daily req. is around 11mg/ed

[thatwaslight]

500mg test a week and 250mg deca a week. ive had no side effects at all maybe broken sleep but thats it no acne no noteable water retention either.

whats best and worst case scenario if i dont use PCT? my last injection was 2 weeks ago today...

[frogie2001]

wicked. off to the sup shop i go. i didn't realise it did so much.

[keats]

500mg test a week and 250mg deca a week. ive had no side effects at all maybe broken sleep but thats it no acne no noteable water retention either.

whats best and worst case scenario if i dont use PCT? my last injection was 2 weeks ago today...

Avoid an abrupt discontinuance of all steroids at the same time because the body would enter an immediate catabolic phase. The cortisone receptors will be free and in combination with the low testosterone and androgen levels a considerable loss of strength and mass, and an increase of fat and water, and often gynecomastia will occur. Gynecomastia is possible because the suddenly low androgen level shifts the relationship in favor of the estrogens which suddenly become the domineering hormone. Especially eye-catching is also the extreme listlessness to training or sex and a generally weak state of mind of several athletes. If not forced because of medical reasons never discontinue steroids "cold turkey"

If the athlete does not yet take antiestrogens he should begin their intake during the last weeks before ending the steroid regime. Athletes who already take antiestrogens the weeks before should continue to do so over the described interval. A daily combination of 20 mg Nolvadex and 25 mg Proviron is usually sufficient for this purpose. This avoids an estrogen surplus, an important factor, which also must be considered when in the following testosterone stimulants such as HCG are taken since HCG often also increases the estrogen level. Since the androgenic effect of Proviron also promotes the increase of the androgen level the androgen/estrogen ratio is further shifted in favor of the androgens. The possibility of a rebound effect after the discontinuance of the antiestrogen combination is considerably reduced by Proviron.

In order to increase the body's own testosterone production the athlete, on one hand, takes HCG which directly and quickly stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes and, on the other hand, takes Clomid which promotes the complete hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, however, it needs a longer start-up phase. The administration of HCG begins during the last week of discontinuance. The athlete injects three times 5000 i.u. in a three-day interval. Following, three more injections of 5000 i.u. are injected every five days. After the third HCG injection the intake of Clomid begins since its gonadotropin-stimulating effect in the event of an already activated increased testicular activity is more effective. Clomid is now taken over two weeks, two tablets of 50 mg each per day in the first week and 50 mg tablets per day in the second week. Point 5 obviously does not apply to women.

All this, however, helps only if the athlete is able to mostly block out the catabolic effect of the increased cortisone level. A compound which, because of its distinct anticatabolic effect, fulfills this requirement is the beta-2 sympathomimetic, Clenbuterol. Clenbuterol successfully blocks the cortisone receptors so that the athlete is usually able to maintain a large portion of the strength and muscle mass built up by the steroids. The intake of Clenbuterol begins directly at the end of the steroid therapy and continues over 8-10 weeks (see also Clenbuterol). Another compound of the group of sympaticomimetics which also has an anticatabolic effect (but less pronounced than Clenbuterol) is Ephedrine. Probably the most suitable drug in this situation is a preparation which in school medicine is used in the treatment of the Cushing's syndrome, a hyperfunction of the adrenal glands which causes the body to produce too much cortisone. Those who have read this book carefully will know which drug is meant: Cytadren. Since it reduces the cortisone level extremely well athletes usually take it directly after completion of a steroid treatment (see also Cytadren). Several athletes take thyroid hormones in this phase since they have an anabolic effect when taken in small dosages and for not excessively long intake intervals. Their effect can be clearly increased by the anticatabolic effect of Clenbuterol which explains why this combination is used during the phase of discontinuance. The use of growth hormone also makes sense since it has a strong anticatabolic/anabolic effect. You can forget Ornithin and Arginin which supposedly increase the realising of GH, because they are ineffective. Distance yourself from the thought that pharmaceutically improved muscle mass can be maintained with "natural methods."

Adjust your nutrition according to the new situation. After discontinuance of the steroid intake the metabolism will go back to normal. This means that the athlete should reduce his daily caloric intake over the course of several days by 25-30%. The protein supply, however, should still be relatively high at 1- 1.5 g of protein per pound of bodyweight per day.

Reduce your workout schedule. Avoid maintaining the same workout program as during steroid regime since this would only magnify the catabolic effect. The athlete should not come up with the crazy idea of compensating a possible loss of performance by increasing the extent and intensity of his workout since such an action would have a negative effect. Limit yourself to your basic exercises, train every muscle once a week, and try to maintain your strength as much as possible. Do not train more than four times a week and limit the workout sessions to 60 minutes. Several so called "experts" are of the opinion that the athlete after a steroid regime should avoid the heavy basic movements for some time and suggest that exercises are carried out more frequently with lower weights. Dear Reader, try it. Those who used to make 8 repetitions of squats with 400 pounds and now switch to leg extensions or leg presses with 12-15 repetitions will wonder how fast an upper thigh can lose size.

Reality has shown that with the necessary knowledge, discipline, ambition, and willpower a considerable amount of the strength and muscle mass built up by the steroids can be maintained. Apart from the year-round steroid intake, a successful over bridging interval between the various treatments is the only way to achieve continuous improvements. Certainly, often it is necessary to go one step back in order to make two steps forward. This is absolutely normal and nothing is said against it. What many, however, do is go two steps back and move two steps forward so that their performance is stagnant. Almost everyone knows how to build up with steroids but only very few are able to maintain the results. Correctly interrupting the steroid regime in combination with a sensible interval of over bridging helps maintain results and creates the basis for a further, successful steroid regime

[keats]

500mg test a week and 250mg deca a week. ive had no side effects at all maybe broken sleep but thats it no acne no noteable water retention either.

whats best and worst case scenario if i dont use PCT? my last injection was 2 weeks ago today...

Although you had your last shot 2 weeks ago, the long lasting ester wil still be active in your body. Once this subsides your estrogen level will be sky high which can then lead to problems.

[frogie2001]

Sweet thanks for that