Looking at using dianabol...

[nzmuscle]

hey all, firstly i'd just like to say what a great and informative site this is, keep it up!

I am looking at doing some bulking in the months before christmas, and am considering using dianabol (oral) with an anti-e like nolvadex. I am thinking of running a 6-8week cylce of 20mg Dianabol a day with 10mg/day Nolvadex starting in the second week. I was hoping that anyone with experience using Dianabol could share their opinions as i have done quite a bit of research and think this would be the best option for me.. thanks!

[NIGHTHEAT]

Dbol only cycles will put on mass extremely fast (mostly water) and as soon as you come off, you'll be back where you started

Post your age/stats/experience and I may recommend something better

[Growth]

I pretty much agree with NIGHTHEAT, your going to gain fast and lose fast. Its not a total waste, its just there are better options out there.

[nzmuscle]

Cheers for your advice, I'm 18, 6'1" and weigh 75kg (165lbs). Im genetically skinny, there are no heavy people in my family and no matter what exercises I do or what I eat, I just dont get bigger, I've put on no more than 5kg in the last 2 years and am serious about giving steroids a go but would like to stick with oral tablets. How would I go about retaining the gains I make after my cycle? Would the Nolvadex or other anti-e not take care of some of the water retention during the steroid cycle? Your opinions are much appreciated :wink:

[frogie2001]

no way! :shock: mate you are only 18, you are still grwing natually with high test levels allready in your system.

how long have you been training, dieting. How much do you eat? what about strength gains.

and finally what city arer you in, to find a mentor,

you should be able to gain weight and muscle without supplementing it with test. It really doesn't matte how much research you do prior to doing a cycle mate, if your diet and weight training ain't up to scratch you may as well grab your cash and burn it, yet alone the fact that you are only 18. at least wait until you are 20 and train hard until than.

[Growth]

Well you probabley not going to like what ive got to say.

At only 18 you are too young to be using steroids, your still at the height of your natural test production. Also you dont have alot of mass, 75kgs for a man 6'1 is not alot, and if you cant gain naturally your going to find it hard to gain on steroids anyway.

You say no matter what you eat your weight wont increase, well youve probabely heard this before but you arent eating enough. Your not a special case where the normal laws do not apply, if you eat enough food then you will put on weight no matter who you are.

IMO you should wait till you are older, weight 85+, and you are able to gain weight naturally through good diet.

How long have you been training and what is your routine like?

Sorry if this sounds like bad news, you can tell me to shove it up my ass if you want....personally im not all that big on the age thing, some people say at LEAST 21 years old is a good place to start, personally i think late 19s early 20s is okay depending on the person, but should should definaly be able to gain weight easily through diet manipulation before you try steroids.

What is your reasoning for wanting to stick with orals?

[Growth]

lol it took me so long to write my post frogie beat me too it :grin:

[frogie2001]

yeah but you pushed it off to 21. I hope he takes this to heart. I reckon if he has been hitting a brick wall at 18, his diet is probably not consistant. alot of people I know still haven't realised how much time this takes to get right.

What city is he in? maybe someone from this forum can take him under his wing otherwise look at the diet and nutrition articles, and train consistently and you will grow

[frogie2001]

I have to say that the first cycle i ever did was acourse of oral. needles scared the hell out of me. big sharp bastards!

[Ash]

I am no expert on steroids and wasn't sure if I should post on this thread but I have to agree with Growth and Frogie, 18 is young to be using steroids.

You're at a time when you want to maximize your natural potential and get your training and diet sorted out 100% before you start pushing things with steroids, so that when (if) you do use them, you get the absolute maximum bang for your bucks without having to resort to abuse.

As they both said, if you're not growing without the steroids, you're still going to battle with them. I don't think they'll magically fix any gaping holes in your nutrition, training or recovery and until you find what's missing and why you're not growing, you're wasting your time.

Probably not what you want to hear.

I'll leave you with some advice from a guy who made an enormous impression on me in terms of how I train:

If you weigh 200lbs and if you were on the absolutely 100% perfected by science bodybuilding training program, if you were on the absolutely 100% perfected by science bodybuilding supplement program, and you were on the absolutely 100% perfected by science bodybuilding gh and steroid program ......and you ate like a 13 year old girl scout....YOUR NOT GOING ANYWHERE IN THIS SPORT MUSCLE WISE. (Dante)

I am not saying you eat like a 13 year old girl scout but I hope you see his point - how's your diet?

Ash

[frogie2001]

:pfft: shit i feel sometime i eat like a 13 year old girl.

or is that I feel like eating a 16 year old girl.... i can't remember

[jono]

Cheers for your advice, I'm 18, 6'1" and weigh 75kg (165lbs). Im genetically skinny, there are no heavy people in my family and no matter what exercises I do or what I eat, I just dont get bigger, I've put on no more than 5kg in the last 2 years and am serious about giving steroids a go but would like to stick with oral tablets. How would I go about retaining the gains I make after my cycle? Would the Nolvadex or other anti-e not take care of some of the water retention during the steroid cycle? Your opinions are much appreciated :wink:

cant gain weight my ass. i started at 59kg now 95-96kg. in only a couple years. most people dont understand how much food it takes. stuff youself till u feel sick. every day. 5kg in 2 years !! you are NOT EATING PROPERLY. learn to eat. no amount of aas will help you gain if you dont know how to eat.

plus ur only 18

[Pseudonym]

Well, I won't repeat what's already been said, but...

I started off at 60kg, 6 foot tall. Somewhere in the Pics forum, there's a "Before" photo of me - you'll see the crappy genetics I inherited! I'm now 90kg. I don't want to put myself up on a pedestal, but that was all natural. It can be done!

Show us your diet, and we'll get you gaining some good quality muscle naturally. There's plenty of time for steroids later, if you choose.

8)

EDIT: I know how tempting steroids look when you're not making progress, though. God, how I know... So I can sympathise!

[deegee]

Post up your diet and lets see if we can see anything wrong. Im my opinion if your diet is good and everything else is in check, you have been training solidly for a least 2 years with everything in check and have come to an informed disission , then so be it. but make sure everything is right first.

[Growth]

I don't want to put myself up on a pedestal

:roll:

[nzmuscle]

cheers for all your replies, and after reading through the other forums on this site I'd have to say my diet probably is my weakest point, mon-fri at work it would go like this:

Meal 1: 2 cups oatmeal, 2 slices wholemeal bread, coffee

Meal 2: Energy bar, energy drink

Meal 3: 2 Sandwiches with chicken or lamb, energy drink

Meal 4: Energy bar, water

Meal 5: Chicken/Lamb/Beef/Redmeat, 4 potatoes, carrots and peas.

During the weekend at home however i would usually have a larger cooked lunch. Last year was my last year at school, and i must admit while there workout routines and diet were not very strict to say the least however now i am ready and able to improve on the two. Once again your help is much appreciated

[frogie2001]

AWESOME here ae some quantities for you

Meal 1: 2 cups oatmeal, 2 slices wholemeal bread, coffee 4 egg whites and one whole egg, scrambled fried

Meal 2: Energy bar, energy drink replace with a protein bar and a piece of fruit instead of the sugar water

Meal 3: 2 Sandwiches with chicken or lamb, energy drink make sure there is a fair amount of meat around 250gms

Meal 4: Energy bar, water Potein is missing, maybe repeat meal 3 here. keep the veges up

Meal 5: Chicken/Lamb/Beef/Redmeat, 4 potatoes, carrots and peas

Meal 6. some whole grain toast, banana or fruit salad and around 500ml of skim milk.

all this should work in with around 30gm protein

30-50gm of carbs

10-20gm fats

per meal and have around 6 a day evenly spaced, every 2-3 hours. like clockwork

!!!!

and keep the veges up for your vitamins and minerals.

Supplement with Creatine 2 tsp a day. but buy a proteing powder and a multi vitamin to keep you going.

[jono]

cheers for all your replies, and after reading through the other forums on this site I'd have to say my diet probably is my weakest point, mon-fri at work it would go like this:

Meal 1: 2 cups oatmeal, 2 slices wholemeal bread, coffee

Meal 2: Energy bar, energy drink

Meal 3: 2 Sandwiches with chicken or lamb, energy drink

Meal 4: Energy bar, water

Meal 5: Chicken/Lamb/Beef/Redmeat, 4 potatoes, carrots and peas.

During the weekend at home however i would usually have a larger cooked lunch. Last year was my last year at school, and i must admit while there workout routines and diet were not very strict to say the least however now i am ready and able to improve on the two. Once again your help is much appreciated

lol all that "food" isnt even as much as one of my meals.

1st of all dont be scared to eat TONS. you will have a hard time getting fat.

drop all energy bars/drinks etc. thats junk.

forget supplements you dont need it (mayb a multivitimin)

1st of all most of your meals have no protien, you NEED protien to build muscle. good sources - red meat, chicken, fish, eggs etc. have protien in every meal.

you really need to pound down the food, looking at ur diet , 2 of your "meals" are energy drink things. these basically count for nothing.

tuna is a quick, cheap ez source of protein. try to eat as much red meat as possible. meats like lamb etc have lots of fat.. also eat LEAN red meats.

once you take out all the energy drinks etc. sqush the other meals into 1 meal and your starting to see what it takes to put on size.

it will take time for your body to get used to eating so much, its not going to happen overnight. ALSO once you start eating properly.. it will still take years to build muscle.

i would get all the protien you can each meal, then fill youself up till you feel bloated with carbs. try to keep the carbs clean.

[Marcus]

I think it's unfair to say forget supplements. If you can afford them, then use them i say.

Other than that the diet frogie2001 has listed there looks good.

Just remember you need to train hard. Keep a log book to ensure you keep progressing in weights & reps.

It will take time & you will really need to focus on your diet to make this work. Don't miss meals, & don't keep looking at your bodyfat levels. The fat will be a lot easier to strip once you have more muscle on your frame.

[Varven]

Mate, I was at your stats a few months ago before I started my bulk, Now im 85kg, 6,0 tall with hardly any increase in body fat.

This was my diet :

Meal 1:\

3 whole eggs, 3 egg whites, 4 toast with olive oil based spread, cup of tea, banana, multi vit,.

meal 2

2 chicken breasts rice

meal 3

185g can of tuna and rice

preworkout

pharmasport growth - 50g carbs, 30g protein

workout

postworkout

pharmasport growth - 50g carbs, 30g protein

Meal 4

any meat/seafood/poultry so i would get about 40 g protein and a LOAD of carbs

Before bed about 4 spoon fulls of peanut butter.

I am sure if you follow that youll gain something , btw that should be the bare minimum, whenever you can , shove in more food.

Post up your routine as well.

I thought about AAS as well, but realized its foolish now.

At your prime age you have more testosterone in your arteries and veins than blood itself. If you continually eat, you will be in an everpresent anabolic state. Lift High volume , each muscle part once a week and you will gain.

If you have any doubts on diet, ask Jono

[Varven]

Swap your routine around , dont stagnate, I was guilty of it. Instead of all those MRP and bars, invest in whole food and a bulk/mass gainer.

Everyone keeps stressing High protein.

Yes high protein is mandatory but if your a hardgainer, YOU NEED CARBS.

Yes its hard to go on eating all day but force feed yourself, Im still learning. Start bit by bit and keep increasing the load till your stomach adjusts to recieving greater amounts of food. Im Convinced its all in the diet mate, All the hard reps during workout, all the creatine,glutamine, what not and all the AAS will have no effect if you dont start with food.

[Mercury]

Well you probabley not going to like what ive got to say.

At only 18 you are too young to be using steroids, your still at the height of your natural test production. Also you dont have alot of mass, 75kgs for a man 6'1 is not alot, and if you cant gain naturally your going to find it hard to gain on steroids anyway.

You say no matter what you eat your weight wont increase, well youve probabely heard this before but you arent eating enough. Your not a special case where the normal laws do not apply, if you eat enough food then you will put on weight no matter who you are.

IMO you should wait till you are older, weight 85+, and you are able to gain weight naturally through good diet.

How long have you been training and what is your routine like?

Sorry if this sounds like bad news, you can tell me to shove it up my ass if you want....personally im not all that big on the age thing, some people say at LEAST 21 years old is a good place to start, personally i think late 19s early 20s is okay depending on the person, but should should definaly be able to gain weight easily through diet manipulation before you try steroids.

What is your reasoning for wanting to stick with orals?

Listen to what 'Growth' is saying he is 100% correct!!

[frogie2001]

true that Varven. i reckon 80% of visible success is from the diet. the main reson i suggested he start on a low carbs diet is to take into account variation and the odd coke, or pie. as he seems new into the diet. i reckon a bit of pizza will sneak in too. and seeing he is keen for mass not wobble

nz muscle. you should take a before photo of your self and hold on to it. take another in about 3 months and see what the difference is. than post them up at the same time here so we can give you big cheers and pats on the back

[sponge]

mate you don't need the dianabol just yet. give it a few years - and then worry about what to cycle.

post your updated diet already :grin:

[BrooklynBB]

I like Varven's eating plan, awesome for bulking, though I'd advoid all that fat before you go to sleep. It's only really going to be stored as fat. A better option would be a protein shake with zero carbs and little fat since you'll supply some needed amino acids for growth as you rest.