23yr old gets Pro card?

[genetic freek]

When I'm capable of beating top rank Pro's I would consider it, Otherwise whats the point?

you raise some very good points there bluto

Im with Bluto on this one.

[POPcorn]

When are you gonna be ready Darren! Whoops I mean Bluto!. Whats stopping you...age?...What have you got to lose?.. Whose saying Nabba boys cant get there Pro card!.

The thing with Grant, he's got age & potential.. Hell I wish I was this young kids age...Another good NZ prospect is Nathan Ohearn. He won the Nabba Nationals. Good on you mate!.

No use crying over spilt milk!..Never mind these could've, would've, should've excuses.

Lets just support these guys in their sport, even better Bluto why dont you jump on the commitee & make a change...you seem to have alot to say..lol

[mr natural]

for sure, why wait for the time that may never happen? you could progress,who ever really comes in an wipes the floor with some crazy physique from outta nowhere?ronnie took along time to win oylmpia against some great pro's. it takes time, you got the goods to go to the next level, why not take a step?

[samoan_muscle]

When are you gonna be ready Darren! Whoops I mean Bluto!. Whats stopping you...age?...What have you got to lose?.. Whose saying Nabba boys cant get there Pro card!.

The thing with Grant, he's got age & potential.. Hell I wish I was this young kids age...Another good NZ prospect is Nathan Ohearn. He won the Nabba Nationals. Good on you mate!.

No use crying over spilt milk!..Never mind these could've, would've, should've excuses.

Lets just support these guys in their sport, even better Bluto why dont you jump on the commitee & make a change...you seem to have alot to say..lol

Mr Popcorn...think youve got bluto mixed up with someone else. Bluto is still pretty young too...

[genetic freek]

When are you gonna be ready Darren! Whoops I mean Bluto!. Whats stopping you...age?...What have you got to lose?.. Whose saying Nabba boys cant get there Pro card!.

The thing with Grant, he's got age & potential.. Hell I wish I was this young kids age...Another good NZ prospect is Nathan Ohearn. He won the Nabba Nationals. Good on you mate!.

No use crying over spilt milk!..Never mind these could've, would've, should've excuses.

Lets just support these guys in their sport, even better Bluto why dont you jump on the commitee & make a change...you seem to have alot to say..lol

Darren who?

[michaelk]

When are you gonna be ready Darren! Whoops I mean Bluto!. Whats stopping you...age?...What have you got to lose?.. Whose saying Nabba boys cant get there Pro card!.

The thing with Grant, he's got age & potential.. Hell I wish I was this young kids age...Another good NZ prospect is Nathan Ohearn. He won the Nabba Nationals. Good on you mate!.

No use crying over spilt milk!..Never mind these could've, would've, should've excuses.

Lets just support these guys in their sport, even better Bluto why dont you jump on the commitee & make a change...you seem to have alot to say..lol

Not sure if you think its Darren O from Rotorua- but it won't be, but putting two and two twogether, NZBLUTO/Nick Reynolds (from Bigkiwi website) and Bluto from this are likely the same.

Regarding the NABBA boys getting Pro cards, I believe NABBA have there own Pro division, if they rate NABBA as such a quality organization and wish to stay their as amateurs- why not put their money where there mouth is and compete in those shows as Pros?

Better yet, I understand your desire Bluto to see the best of the best on one stage- as Moe and Mark attempted with the Elite (where Mark told me in advance that if the winner was from NZ they could apply for a Pro Card), but why should the onus be on the NZFBB to offer a stepping stone for NABBA competitors to the IFBB Pro League without having contributed to the NZFBB shows through a reasonable level of participation.

The NZFBB is here to serve NZFBB members not NABBA, if they aren't happy with the Elite level of their federation, that is hardly the responsibility of NZFBB to remedy or offer an alternative.

Grant has been a long term loyal NZFBB competitor and that carries some weight as it should.

[2guns]

some good debate here...

[Optimass]

The NZFBB is here to serve NZFBB members not NABBA, if they aren't happy with the Elite level of their federation, that is hardly the responsibility of NZFBB to remedy or offer an alternative.

Seems a fair point.

On the same note I saw the shots from the NABBA Wellingtons. Bluto your physique is definately up there with the best in NZ - very competitive .... not sure why you sell yourself short. A pro card definately within reach if you switched codes - exposure to competition at that level can only make you a better athlete as it does in all sports.

[Nato]

Grant has done what is needed to get his card! So if he wants it, he gets it. You can only get better when competing aganst the best. Give him a few years at the top level and I'm guessing he will be compeditive.

Bluto is not Big Daz from rotovagas!. If it is Nick R?? are you gonna do the Elite??

[Gym rat]

A very good insterting debate also some good points as well plus it would be great to see more Kiwi pro's on stage along with are current Kiwi pro's for the likes of Moe,Mike K ,Mike D, Salah,Big Kiwi.

[Bluto]

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[Bluto]

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[Bluto]

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[auck_builder]

this is true - and i think could gather some good crouds and publicity with a bit of backing....

[Matrix]

When I'm capable of beating top rank Pro's I would consider it, Otherwise whats the point?

I disagree with you on this point Bluto, although I do respect your opinions as you always speak you mind on this forum and dont BS.

In professional sports and professional sports tours, not every athlete is capable of being or beating the worlds best in their chosen sports.

Take for example Tennis. Our former top ten player Brett Steven was the countries no.1 for many years but never made the top ten in the world or (to the best of my knowledge) bet anyone in the top ten.

Just because he wasn't a top 10 pro does that mean that he should have been denied the chance to compete all around the world and derive an income from tour earnings, sponsorship and endorsement deals and appearance fees?

If it were the case and only the very top say ten pro's were allowed to compete, then the tour would quiuckly become very boring and the sport would not grow as smaller countries would not have any local players to look up to, aspire to be and learn from.

It's the same for other sports such as golf. NZ has plenty of golf pro's, not many have attained or ever will attain top 10 status, but they still have the right to ply their trade and make a living from the opportunities and exposure that being a professional athlete brings(both during and after they have finished competing).

IMO, it is the same for Bodybuilding, sure not every kiwi pro is ready to storm the world stage and place highly in the big comps and some probably never will. But that doesnt mean that they should be denied the right to ply their trade and subsidize or even make a living from the opportunities that being a pro can offer.

Sure there are many amazing pros in the States, but very few progress from winning the USA or Nationals to being top5 BBuilders in there first year or two. Some do(Heath, Flex, Levrone), but many others dont (Haley, Richardson, Dugdale, Titus,etc). Just my opinion...

[mr natural]

When are you gonna be ready Darren! Whoops I mean Bluto!. Whats stopping you...age?...What have you got to lose?.. Whose saying Nabba boys cant get there Pro card!.

The thing with Grant, he's got age & potential.. Hell I wish I was this young kids age...Another good NZ prospect is Nathan Ohearn. He won the Nabba Nationals. Good on you mate!.

No use crying over spilt milk!..Never mind these could've, would've, should've excuses.

Lets just support these guys in their sport, even better Bluto why dont you jump on the commitee & make a change...you seem to have alot to say..lol

Not sure if you think its Darren O from Rotorua- but it won't be, but putting two and two twogether, NZBLUTO/Nick Reynolds (from Bigkiwi website) and Bluto from this are likely the same.

Regarding the NABBA boys getting Pro cards, I believe NABBA have there own Pro division, if they rate NABBA as such a quality organization and wish to stay their as amateurs- why not put their money where there mouth is and compete in those shows as Pros?

Better yet, I understand your desire Bluto to see the best of the best on one stage- as Moe and Mark attempted with the Elite (where Mark told me in advance that if the winner was from NZ they could apply for a Pro Card), but why should the onus be on the NZFBB to offer a stepping stone for NABBA competitors to the IFBB Pro League without having contributed to the NZFBB shows through a reasonable level of participation.

The NZFBB is here to serve NZFBB members not NABBA, if they aren't happy with the Elite level of their federation, that is hardly the responsibility of NZFBB to remedy or offer an alternative.

Grant has been a long term loyal NZFBB competitor and that carries some weight as it should.

oh who gives a rats if you compete mostly as a NABBA, your still a body builder, you can compete in either federation as far as NABBA is concerned,its only IFBB rules that state you must repay your membership if you compete in another federation.

The main reason why more body builders aspire to compete as an IFBB pro is that the IFBB has alot more exposure with the backing of weilder ect... I mean what wishful thinking body builder would not aspire to be on the olympia stage as it clearly is the pinnical of bodybuilding.Its almost a house hold name as far as reconition goes along with the pro's who compete in it( well from my baised veiw point anyway) The NABBA Universe and World shows simply do not have the pulling power.

To try to be an IFBB pro is the obvious choice and thats no disrespect to what nabba do, i think on a national level NABBA mostly do a great job and have a good federation.

[bigmd]

A very good insterting debate also some good points as well plus it would be great to see more Kiwi pro's on stage along with are current Kiwi pro's for the likes of Moe,Mike K ,Mike D, Salah,Big Kiwi.

The more pros you add to that list the weaker the list looks. On that list above I see two names that can do damage. The others all have the potential but you can say that about anyone.

Being the last one added to that list I take offence to the list looking weaker as more pros are added, :evil: esp considering nationaly i have been unbetten in the NZFBB since 1997 incl 3 overall national Titles....."Potental??? but you could say that about anyone :? ."

One thing is for sure the ALL of the above will do more "damage" than those that sit on the side line and "i will when;" "im better" ""ïm 100kg ripped on stage" "when i can beat???"

I have been competing since 93 and have heard all the excusses why people dont get up on stage, i have also heard all the excuess why NABBA boys have not gone to the NZFBB to get there Pro card. If you are good enough to get your procard and you are in NABBA then winning the NZFBB nationals following the rules wont be a problem.....If you are good enough!! :wink:

If you cant get up on stage and win with out the gear then you are not good enough to think about a pro card. im not saying that it is my personal opinion on how the NZFBB should run there Testing policys. but if you are goodenough and you want it bad enough you will just bite the bullit and go clean and win the NZFBB nats.

If there is ANYONE who knows how the system works it is me. i have been on every side of every fence.

Every Show Past is an opportunity lost if you want to head to the Pro Ranks. Or you can wait to you are 40 something and still talk about how you will "compete when im 120kg on stage ripped"

There are "gona Do'ers" and "DO'ERS" Grant is proving he is a DO'ER, he has a dream and he is chasing it. he has work to do, but im sure with age he will iron out (exusse the Pun considering Grants 1st show) hsi areas of weakness

As For Dan Hibbs, he has his own path, and he will follow that following his own Values. he doesnt need to go pro to prove he is agreat bodybuilder he proved that in October!

Mike "doing the damage" Debenham

[Android]

I think the confusing part is that the pro card is viewed as a 'title' earnt on stage, it isn't that simple it seems.

Congratulations Grant, we all know how hard it is to improve our physiques and it just shows that you must be sacrificing a lot to attain this hard-earned pro card.

As one who has dreams of the same goal this is info you can't read in magazines, to know what it takes to get there is priceless. Thanks.

[bigmd]

I think in Grants case, he did win his class and nobody else in the overall put their hand up, and also Grant has massive potental, so why not give it to him. i see no reason that every nationals a pro card should not be up for grabs and if the overall winner doesnt want it who else is next in line or has what is needed to use it. The Nationals was an awsome line up possibly one of the best ever, and to be honest im not sure who got second or third or forth (i was too excitted for Dan to check) But please with no offence to any other athlete in the overall! who has the goods to take it to the next level, the age, the passion? and who wants it? Grant!!! if he comes in with a little more condition aand brings up the hams and calves im sure he will look right at home on stage, and i look fwd to standing right there beside him!

[nate225]

Bluto,

I see your point, and I had always thought custom and practise was "win the nationals apply for your card".

Never the less a pro card aint a meal ticket! And for any of the current pro's there certainly wont be anything given to them for free, in fact they're going to be spending money hand over fist just for the honour of standing on the stage with the IFBB greats. I'm pretty sure Moe's the only one who'll actually make some coin this year, or even break even. A friend told me it cost him close to $30K (travel, accom, and training) to do two shows, and that was a few years back.

As for MD's comment re: winning the NZFBB title - unlike 98 & 2000, I dont think testing will be the issue it was, as unlike in previous years where Sparc funding was sought, I believe NZFBB have dropped WADA testing? Maybe they'll pick a 50 kg woman novice to take the test!!! :pfft:

On that topic enuff said from me, - I wish all our pro's the best for the coming year.

Nate

[Gym rat]

I also whish our pro's all the very best for the new year.

[nzmusclemonster]

I think in Grants case, he did win his class and nobody else in the overall put their hand up, and also Grant has massive potental, so why not give it to him. i see no reason that every nationals a pro card should not be up for grabs and if the overall winner doesnt want it who else is next in line or has what is needed to use it. The Nationals was an awsome line up possibly one of the best ever, and to be honest im not sure who got second or third or forth (i was too excitted for Dan to check) But please with no offence to any other athlete in the overall! who has the goods to take it to the next level, the age, the passion? and who wants it? Grant!!! if he comes in with a little more condition aand brings up the hams and calves im sure he will look right at home on stage, and i look fwd to standing right there beside him!

If pro cards get handed out willy nilly every year, what is that going to do to the local level of competition. Year after year its going to be just 2 or 3 people shooting for the pro card.... Why not keep the competition strong and make these boys work for it.

[nate225]

If pro cards get handed out willy nilly every year, what is that going to do to the local level of competition. Year after year its going to be just 2 or 3 people shooting for the pro card.... Why not keep the competition strong and make these boys work for it.

How many cards have actually been handed out NZMM?

From my (fading) memory we have only had the following mens IFBB Pro's locally:

Kevin O'Grady

BJ Johns

Mark Rainbow

Dave Smith

Justin Rhys

Moe M

Mike K

Sala

Mike D

Grant (if confirmed)

I dont think this is over the top given the list (if complete) spans well over a decade, and I'm unsure where the pro cards of all were earnt? Possibly Kevin O & BJ Johns were off shore, as was Moes if what I was told is correct?? Sala?

Anyone confirm or deny?

Nate

[bigmd]

I dont see willy nilly cards handed out! the applicant still has to have the support of the NZFBB committee

Before Mike K earned his pro card who was the last person to gain their card from winning the Nationals, straight up, passed whatever they had too if they needed too (no testing in the early mid and lat 90s) Mark Stewart in 96 Kevin Ogready in 95 and before that BJ Johns in 94. lets not leave it one or two cards every 10yrs.

For those that will say what about Moe, he got his through lebanon, and justin was given a wild card entry into the NZ GP in 2001. so nether of them gained it from their national wins.

if we had a run of our national overall champ (eg for 5yr) not being interested in going pro but instead just wanted to do worlds or even if they didnt do anything internationally it would mean that NZ wont have any new pros gaining experence. and what if these possible pros were loosing by 1point, why let them miss out.

Grant is definatly not a "willy nilly" applicant for his card he did not win the NZ's but ist not as if he was not of standard to be the winner.

As long as the NZFBB committee ensure that any applicant is of standard then i think the card to grant is well deserved. And if this is how the NZFBB wish to grant cards then we should look fwd too the future selection and not on selections of the past.

i think it seem very easy for those that have no aspirations or dont have the genetics of dont even compete to make comment on wether others goet there pro card of not. hey at the olympics we dont just send 1 athlete of each disapline (unless internationally restriceted to 1) if we are allowed to send 2 or 3 and we have the depth of athletes to do that.

Lets show some support instead of showing our good Old NZ tall poppy syndrome.

[Bluto]

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