Lactate Threshold link to fatburning

[teamfatboy]

Newbie question here:

The theory goes (and was recently highlighted elsewhere) that "fatburning" is achieved at 60-65% MHR, and above 65% increasingly muscle is at risk.

My question is this - what determines that transition point, because I don't accept that it's a fixed point for everyone? Surely it must vary with age and fitness - which is why I wonder about its linkage to lactate threshold?

If the two are related, and lactate threshold can be measured, isn't that a potential tool to maximise fatburning from cardio?

Why do I ask? 'Cos I'm finding it hard to accept that grinding out hour after hour at 60-65% of LISS is right for my specific conditioning.

Views?

[SamWall]

This is What I learn't..

"Many people have read in magazines that long-distance cardiovascular exercise will break down muscle. Personal trainers have said that the body will use the protein in muscle as an energy source during long-distance training. Are these statements the same? No. Are they scientifically accurate? Yes and No.

During cardiovascular exercise, the body will use glucose (carbohydrates) as the main energy source. The body will use fat as a secondary energy source. The body rarely, if ever, breaks down protein and uses it as an energy source.

The breaking down of body tissues is known as a catabolic process. For instance, if fat is to be used as an energy source, a fat cell is broken down into a fatty acid and glycerol. The glycerol can then be used for energy. Proteins, within the muscle, have to be broken down into peptide chains, then into amino acids and finally into glucose for energy.

The nature of aerobic activity is catabolic. The main goal is to break down and burn fat. During this, the body will also seek to drop weight. The densest cells in the body are muscles. The body will seek to break down the muscles, not as much for an energy source, but to lighten the load - like a movie where an airplane is desperately trying to fly. The goal of this catabolic process is NOT to use protein as an energy source.

The nature of weight training is anabolic. Anabolic is the opposite of catabolic. Anabolic processes build. The goal is for the liver to release essential amino acids to be delivered via the blood to the muscles. The amino acids are built into peptide chains, which are built into the proteins that comprise muscles.

Long-distance running after a strength workout negates this process. Sprinting will cause an anabolic process whereas long-distance running causes a catabolic process.

A workout program should not call for concurrent long-distance training and muscle-building weight training in the same day. A muscle-building program should consist of sprinting and plyometric-type training. These workouts go hand-in-hand."

Like in B4L you should do short burst HIIT, better for burining fat and carries anabolic properties rather than long slow fat burning like alot of P.T's Suggest??????

[Flex]

My question is this - what determines that transition point, because I don't accept that it's a fixed point for everyone? Surely it must vary with age and fitness - which is why I wonder about its linkage to lactate threshold?

Perhaps you've misunderstood how your max heart rate is calculated. Max heart rate is roughly calculated as 220 minus your age so is age dependent, and therefore your training zones are age dependent also. Your fitness level will dictate how easy it is for you to maintain certain points on this scale and the duration. A very fit person can maintain a lower heart rate for longer at higher perceived intensity, whereas a very unfit person might hit their max heartrate just walking to the mailbox.

There are more scientific and accurate ways of calculating your max hr, either using formulas using your resting heart rate, of which is generally lower the more fit you are, or by hooking yourself up to an ECG and undergoing a few tests. Unless you're an elite athlete you're best to probably just use the 220 - age formula.

HIIT training's good in that it helps elevate the metabolism and burns more fat calories for a much longer time "after" the training than low intensity/lower heart rate training, however it burns less fat "during" the training session than low intensity. Unfortunately it does jack to improve your cardiovascular fitness, however HIIT training (hills, sprints, intervals, fartleks etc) can help increase lactate threshold which is normally of most benefit to endurance athletes and long distance runners.

[goinhard]

Fat burning heartrates are a bit of a myth, i think it stems from lower intensity cardio supposedly using a greater proportion of fat as fuel but being low intensity it doesnt burn that much calories overall.

Personally im not going to use HIIT running again because i find it affects my leg recovery from squatting twice a week, i might try swimming HIIT once weightloss stalls though.

[teamfatboy]

Flex points out the accepted principle that "HIIT training helps elevate the metabolism and burns more fat calories for a much longer time "after" the training than low intensity/lower heart rate training, however it burns less fat "during" the training session than low intensity". SamWall says that "HIIT is better than long slow fat burning like a lot of P.T's suggest".

So, if that's the case, why do I see so many bodybuilders grafting out long slow hours on the treadmill in the run-up to a comp?

I understand that's because of the belief that hi-intensity cardio is "too catabolic", breaking down the muscles they've spent hours building. So, to burn bodyfat without sacrificing muscle, they slog it out in the generally-accepted zone (60-65%) despite the fact that the zone may not be right for them - it might be too intense, or more likely it might not be intense enough.

How can that zone be determined more accurately? What tools (like the lactate threshold transition from aerobic to anaerobic) can I use?

[ExpensiveUrine]

You're not going to oxidize much protein during HIIT, as it relies primarily on anaerobic pathways (think ATP-CP, anaerobic glycolysis) via glycogenolysis (breakdown of glycogen/CHO). The same pathway as for weight training (depending on the program structure). You will need oxygen to oxidize protein so aerobic glycolysis (Krebs/TCA cycle) and transport chain are much better suited for the job. And yes, HIIT does have an aerobic component to it, even though the activity itself (ie sprint) is mostly anaerobic, and it occurs during recovery phases as you prepare for another sprint. Although I doubt it'll have a significant impact on muscle protein catabolism.

During cardio there's a shift in substrate use when intensity goes from high (primarily CHO) to low (FAT and CHO, depending on the intensity). Protein can be used during aerobic exercise such as marathon running especially when you're glycogen depleted and have been running for quite some time. But I think the oxidation from PRO only contributes to up to 10% of energy, and depends on things like body composition (how fat you are/glycogen storage), training status, nutrition (things youve eaten prior) ect.

By definition, any diet that requires you to eat below maintenance calories or any exercise is catabolic, since they require oxidation of fuel stores to provide energy for the body. When you're dieting (ie creating a calorie deficit for weight/fat loss to occur, think: energy balance) you're going to lose protein regardless, the main stimulus for losing LESS skeletal muscle protein is your resistance training, consisting of higher intensity (%1RM) and somewhat reduced volume/frequency, since your power output tends to decline with reduced calories as opposed to the overfed state where you don't get tired as easily. And of course nutrition, structuring your PRO/CHO meals around your training. Or drugs.

So, if that's the case, why do I see so many bodybuilders grafting out long slow hours on the treadmill in the run-up to a comp?

I would suspect there are several reasons for this. Allows them to eat more by burning more kcals via cardio, it won't affect/tax their weight training as much as HIIT would during low kcal diets (recovery), sparing muscle glycogen (depending on how long they run and what they eat prior to cardio) required for weight training, ect ect.

[teamfatboy]

Thanks EU - lot to read and absorb in there, that's the kinda info I was after, I think.

TFB

[Varven]

You're not going to oxidize much protein during HIIT, as it relies primarily on anaerobic pathways (think ATP-CP, anaerobic glycolysis) via glycogenolysis (breakdown of glycogen/CHO). The same pathway as for weight training (depending on the program structure).

Care to shed some light on this program structure or parameters for those wishing to devise a HIIT routine. It doesnt have to be exact, but a rule of thumb will suffice.

When you're dieting (ie creating a calorie deficit for weight/fat loss to occur, think: energy balance) you're going to lose protein regardless, the main stimulus for losing LESS skeletal muscle protein is your resistance training, consisting of higher intensity (%1RM) and somewhat reduced volume/frequency, since your power output tends to decline with reduced calories as opposed to the overfed state where you don't get tired as easily.

My interpretation of this is: when you are "cutting", f@#k the 50 sets of "supersetting", Instead use heavy weights in lower reps but accomodate for decreased calories. Is that a correct assumption? My logic has always been, I make strenght gains in the 1 -8 rep range. Simpleton logic: if my strenght is rising, I must be putting on muscle mass.

So I always felt when cutting it would make more sense to use something like 10 sets of 3 reps at 80% of 1rm instead of sets of 12 - 20 reps.

What do you think about this?

I would suspect there are several reasons for this. Allows them to eat more by burning more kcals via cardio, it won't affect/tax their weight training as much as HIIT would during low kcal diets (recovery), sparing muscle glycogen (depending on how long they run and what they eat prior to cardio) required for weight training, ect ect.

What has the eating more got to do ? Do you mean they purely do longer cardio so they can eat more so they are not feeling deprived of food and hungry ??

[Varven]

I thought the this article taken from T-nation is relevant to this discussion

Meltdown Training

Forget aerobics, the future of fat loss

is GH/lactic acid training

by Don Alessi

Can you lose fat and gain muscle at the same time? Is cardio necessary if you want to get really shredded? Can manipulating the body's natural growth-hormone levels through lactic-acid training be the answer we've all been looking for? Read the following article by Don Alessi and decide for yourself. Better yet, try the program and let us know how it works for you.

It happens every damned time, doesn't it? Like a fat chick in front of a Häagen-Dazs, your progress comes to a screeching halt the last two weeks of your diet. You try not to squander hard-earned muscle mass and strength, but you gotta' make weight. What do you do? Add cardio? Increase exercise volume? E-mail your 'roid dealer?

Mental stress, nutrient restriction and aerobic exercise drive your cortisol levels sky high. If you're not careful, you'll end up a 98-pound poster boy for the Mr. Punyverse competition and be so weak in the gym that even the Body-for-Lifers make fun of your poundages. But it doesn't have to be that way, not if you apply the recent info we have on how your body stores fat and give lactic acid training a shot.

Regional Adiposity: A Local Phenomenon

Men have a unique hierarchy of fat mobilization. Basically, men shed fat from the inside out. Studies with male Rangers after prolonged energy deficit and exercise showed regional fat changes from greatest to least as follows:

Abdomen > Trunk > Arms > Legs

That means men lose fat first in the abdomen and the trunk, and lose fat last in the arms and legs. This is what I mean by losing fat from the "inside out." Anyone that's been around the iron game has observed this in novice bodybuilders during contest preparation. The athlete leans out to 10% body fat using a progressively lower caloric intake and then gets stuck. The legs, triceps, and lower abs are still thick. The usual marathon aerobic sessions in combo with a starvation diet sucks the gas right out of the mass. I've witnessed men reduce 18-inch cannons to 15-inch peashooters in order to see a glimpse of leg definition. There must be a better way... and there is!

A better way would be to use a local fat-loss strategy, targeting the extremities (arms and legs) first and the torso last. But is that possible? Yes! Training programs which release growth hormone (GH) are thought to be most effective at doing just that. Before I get into the program, let's examine why this is true.

Aerobics are a Man-Eater

Remember that fat mass is the enemy, not body mass or scale weight. Body-fat percentage is a factor of fat-free mass (water, muscle, bone, organs and connective tissue) and fat mass. Gaining lean mass while shedding fat mass is the fastest means to altering this percentage in your favor. Let's examine the two obvious training choices: aerobic endurance training (marathon running) and anaerobic resistance training (bodybuilding).

Aerobic endurance training will increase calories burned, increase oxygen utilization, and lower total body mass (scale weight). However, the process isn't substrate specific, meaning your body will just as readily burn lean mass as it would fat mass. Paradoxically, it appears that fat in the trunk is more readily used as the fat source, which means that aerobic exercise doesn't even target the problematic fat!

Over time there's an increased catabolic response and a lowered anabolic response in aerobic endurance training. This is thought to be the reason for muscle-protein breakdown (catabolism) and thus the reduction in muscular strength and power over time. The challenge with aerobic conditioning is that it creates a progressively catabolic environment, combusting both lean mass and fat mass in order to fuel energy demands. (See Table 1 below.)

What about the argument that aerobic training uses more fat as its fuel source than does weight training? This is true, but there's more to the story. Muscle damage induced by running and/or jogging doesn't increase resting metabolic rate (RMR) beyond 24 hours. Data suggests however, that exercise with a significantly stronger eccentric component (i.e. resistance exercise) is necessary to evoke large amounts of muscle damage so that energy required for repair and synthesis may prolong post-exercise RMR.

The energetic cost of this remodeling (anabolism) is enormous, possibly accounting for up to 20% or 600 calories in the average musclehead. Other studies have proposed that there may be even greater energy utilization from the muscle damage that weight training induces. This may account for the increased RMR for up to 72 hours post-workout.

Besides the technical stuff, the practical side of the aerobic thing is that it's boring, time intensive and it wears on your joints, especially if you're a heavyweight. Here's a table to help you see the differences between weight training and aerobic endurance training:

Adaptations over Time of Resistance Training

Vs. Aerobic Endurance Training

Resistance Training Aerobic Endurance Training

Testosterone increases Testosterone decreases

Growth hormone increases Growth hormone — unchanged

Cortisol decreases Cortisol increases

Muscle strength increases Muscle strength decreases

Muscle endurance increases Muscle endurance increases

Muscle fiber size increases Muscle fiber size — unchanged

Bone density increases Bone density — unchanged

% bodyfat decreases % bodyfat — slight decrease

Fat-free mass increases Fat-free mass —unchanged

Volume of oxygen — slight increase Volume of oxygen increases

Judging by this info, it's pretty obvious which type of training is better for the bodybuilder.

Weight Training: The Anabolic Smart Bomb

Due to the anabolic effect, weight training preferentially retains or adds lean mass at the expense of fat mass, even during caloric restriction. In fact, the T-Dawg Diet (low-carb/high protein) actually adds to the anabolic effect of weight training.

We know that weight training and supportive nutrition are better than aerobic training for attaining that coveted single digit, body-fat percentage, but what types of training progressions produce the biggest bang? Before I answer, indulge me a bit.

Serum anabolic hormones during prolonged weight training (six months) increase in direct proportion to strength gains. These results suggest the importance of the balance between androgenic-anabolic activity (i.e. Testosterone and growth hormone) and the catabolic hormone cortisol.

The best news is that there's a direct relationship between strength gains and Testosterone production even in elite strength athletes. Maximum Testosterone output is generated with multiple-joint lifts (deadlifts, power cleans, squats) performed at a high percentage of maximum (85 to 95%) and at a high volume (6 to 12 sets). Traditional powerlifting programs are well suited for greater Testosterone release (i.e. 8-12 sets of 2-5 reps, 3-6 minutes recovery).

The natural progression of training implies that greater strength is realized and increased tension time is placed on the muscle fibers. This triggers a second anabolic cascade of events. The muscle fibers increase in a cross-sectional area and the quantity of muscle contractile proteins starts to build (hypertrophy). The increase in muscle fiber hypertrophy is thought to occur by a remodeling of protein within the cell and an increase in the size and number of muscle cells. Exercise scientists have noted that these dramatic muscle changes accompany growth hormone secretion (GH). And maximum GH levels are augmented directly through blood-lactate increases.

In order to elicit GH production, sets of 8 to12 RM — along with short rest intervals of one minute or less — are best. Exercise selection must also include multiple joint compound movements that emphasize the leg muscles with a slow concentric (lifting) component. This anabolic condition is the foundation for many of the effective training programs such as the "10 x 10" method or German Volume Training popularized by Charles Poliquin.

To summarize, weight training produces a perpetual anabolic environment, increases calories burned, and leaves time to pursue leisure activities like re-renting Pumping Iron for the tenth time.

Lactic Acid Interval Training

With this new understanding and application of GH/lactic acid training, you can soon experience a dramatically lowered body-fat level. But in some cases this still won't be enough; you'll need to supplement your lactic-acid weight training with lactic-acid interval training. If you're in a ballistic sport such as martial arts or boxing, then sparring each afternoon can be considered your interval workout. If not, a rowing ergometer or a simple jump rope will work.

How do you successfully use all this jargon for massive fat loss and explosive muscle gains? The following is a sample progression that forces GH to flood the muscle cells via the stimulation of blood lactate. By the way, I employed this same progression to cut 60 fat pounds off an aspiring Olympic athlete in just under twenty weeks.

This training has been nicknamed "death circuit" and "projectile speed training" by those who've survived it. This is because blood lactate levels rise to 20 mmol/l. You may want a partner to manually force you through all the prescribed sets — or help you clean up!

WEEK ONE

(Day 1 and 2 are to be repeated twice per week)

Day 1

A1)* Chin-ups, supinated (palms facing you)

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up (pull yourself up over a period of 3 seconds), 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds (after one set, move directly to the next exercise below)

A2) Squat

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A3) Push-up

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A4) Deadlifts

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 120 seconds

* The A1-A4 designations mean you do one set of each exercise with no rest in between. After the last exercise, in this case deadlifts, you'll rest for the prescribed amount of time and then repeat the whole circuit two more times. After that, you'll probably puke, and then you can move to the "B" exercises.

B1) Hanging leg raises

Sets: 2

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: Hold 3 seconds at the top

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

B2) Decline reverse crunch

Sets: 2

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds down, one second up

Rest Interval: 60 seconds

The decline reverse crunch is performed on a slant board or a Swiss ball where you raise your legs up towards your face.

Day 2

A1) Push press

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds down, explode up

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

The push press is a shoulder press that utilizes the entire body. Start by standing, with a shoulder-width grip and the barbell resting on anterior delts. Squat one-fourth of the way down to initiate the momentum. Next, press the bar straight over the head to a soft lockout while exploding up on to the toes. Finish by lowering the weight to your shoulders.

A2) Walking lunge with dumbbells

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A walking lunge looks like a regular lunge except instead of stepping back to the starting position, you step forward with the back leg. You'll end up walking across the floor 20 to 30 feet.

A3) Dip

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A4) Bent over barbell row

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 120 seconds

B) Twisting crunches on Swiss ball or hanging leg raises with twist

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: Hold 3 seconds at the top

Rest Interval: 60 seconds

WEEK TWO

Same as above. Increase sets to four in the "A" series and three in the "B" series.

WEEK THREE

Day one and two are again to be repeated twice per week. As an alternate schedule, the lactic acid interval training can be performed on the morning of your off days before your first meal.

Day 1 — AM (morning workout)

A1) Chin ups, supinated

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A2) Squat

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A3) Push-up

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A4) Deadlifts

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 90 seconds

B1) Hanging leg raises

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: Hold 3 seconds at the top

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

B2) Decline reverse crunch

Sets: 3

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds down, one second up

Rest Interval: 30 seconds

Day 1 — PM

Perform six "sets" of rope jumping for 60 seconds each set. Rest 180 seconds between sets.

Day 2 — AM

A1) Push press

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds down, explode up

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A2) Walking dumbbell lunge

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up,1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A3) Dips

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 0 seconds

A4) Bent over barbell row

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: 3 seconds up, 1 second down

Rest Interval: 90 seconds

B) Twisting crunches on Swiss Ball or hanging leg raises with twist

Sets: 4

Reps: 10

Rep Speed: Hold 3 seconds at the top

Rest Interval: 30 seconds

Day 2 - PM

Perform six "sets" on the rowing ergometer (or jump rope again) for 60 seconds each set. Rest for 180 seconds between each set.

Supercharging the Program

Here are a few tips to get the best results from this program:

• This type of training is best adopted after the completion of a strength phase and would then meet the intensity-to-volume periodization model.

• Fat-loss products containing yohimbine (like Biotest MD6) may help target lower-body fat cells and bolsters results.

• If it fits your schedule better, you can switch the AM and PM workouts.

• The anabolic shock of this GH phase is so intense that many athletes gain five to eight pounds of lean mass while concurrently shedding an equal amount of fat mass, but this depends largely on nutritional factors. If your goals are weight and fat loss then make the appropriate caloric cuts. The net result is a massive lactic-acid meltdown.

• While the program can be repeated, it's best not to do it — at least not without changing the movements — for more than 6 weeks.

So how's that sound? An end to stalled-out diets and boring, excessive cardio. Get ready to experience what "feel the burn" really means!

(A special thanks to Charles Poliquin for his "supercharging" tips.)

References

Nindl,BC,Friedl` KE,Marchitelli LJ,Shippee RL, Thomas CD,Patton JF. Regional fat placement in physically fit males and changes with weight loss. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 1996 Jul;28(7):786-793.

Geliebter A,Maher MM,Gerace L,Gutin B,Heymsfield SB,Hashim SA. Effects of strength or aerobic training on body composition, resting metabolic rate, and peak oxygen consumption in obese dieting subjects. Am J Clin. Nutr. 1997 Sep;66(3):557-563.

Kramer WJ, Patton J, Gordon SE, Harmon EA, Deschenes MR, Reynolds K, Newton RU, Triplette NT, Dziados JE. Compatability of high intensity strength and endurance training on hormonal and skeletal adaptations. J.Appl. Physiol. 78(3):976-989.1995.

Brett A. Dolezal, Jeffrey A. Potteiger, Dennis J. Jacobsen, Stephen H. Benedict. Muscle Damage and resting metabolic rate after acute resistance exercise with an eccentric overload. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 1999.

Hakkinen K, Pakarinen A, Alen M, Komi PV. Serum hormones during prolonged training of neuromuscular performance. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. Occup. Physiol 1985;53(4):287-93.

Hakkinen K, Pakarinen A, Alen M, Kauhanen H, Komi PV. Neuromusular and Hormonal responses in elite athletes to two successive strength training sessions in one day. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. Occup. Physiol 1988;57(2):133-9.

Essentials of strength training and conditioning / National Strength and Conditioning Association; Thomas R. Baechle, Rodger Earle, editors.-2nd.ed.

Hakkinen K, Pakarinen A. Acute hormonal responses to two different fatiguing heavy-resistance protocols in male athletes. J.Appl. Physiol. 1993 Feb; 74(2): 882-7.

Kraemer WJ, Dudley GA, Tesch PA, Gordon SE, Hather BM, Volek JS, Ratamess NA. The influence of muscle action on the acute growth hormone response to resistance exercise and short-term detraining. Growth Hormone & IGF Research 2001 Apr;11 (2):75-83.

[Laver]

You could at least show the article the respect it deserve by siting a link for it!

Now I have to search it on T-Nation all by myself

[Varven]

Search for:

Meltdown Training

by Don Alessi

[Mr NZ]

Good thread!

[soundsgood]

Has anyone tried that programme?

[Varven]

Nope but when I was doign some more serious BJJ/Judo training we did a similar circuit which was very effective in increasing working capacity and burning fat in minimal time:

Hang-Cleans

Push press or military press

front squat

good mornings

floor presses

start with the bar, do 20 reps of each ex and go on to next with no rest.

At the end of it, take 2 mins off, then add 10kgs on each side, repeat the whole circuit for 15 reps.

Take 2 mins off, add another 10kg each side, repeat.

Get through 4 circuits, done.

I guess its more interesting than plain old hiit on a treadmill

[teamfatboy]

Wow, now that sounds like fun... might give that a go! The old wind-trainer grind looses its appeal after a while.

[Varven]

Yeah its really effective. Once I ditch my high volume crap I intend to chuck in one of those circuits each week.

And the cool thing is they assist with recovery... even if you have doms from doing box squats and heavy benches, after a circuit I always feel better!

Must be blood washing into the area and helping recovery ?

[poos_n_wees]

Nope but when I was doign some more serious BJJ/Judo training we did a similar circuit which was very effective in increasing working capacity and burning fat in minimal time:

Hang-Cleans

Push press or military press

front squat

good mornings

floor presses

start with the bar, do 20 reps of each ex and go on to next with no rest.

At the end of it, take 2 mins off, then add 10kgs on each side, repeat the whole circuit for 15 reps.

Take 2 mins off, add another 10kg each side, repeat.

Get through 4 circuits, done.

I guess its more interesting than plain old hiit on a treadmill

Oooh, how did you incorporate this into your training split V? I'm keen to give it a try as a form of cardio, but am wondering where to put it :?

[Varven]

As long as you are getting rest..I would probably do it the day after chest day, and arrange my rest day to be the one following this circuit.

So if Wed is Chest, Thu is Circuit as above, Friday can be day off, Sat, back into it.

[poos_n_wees]

Thanks! Sorry for the hijack.. :shifty: