GVT on a 5 day split (cutting)

[Arjun]

Currently on a 5 day split program following tradional training methods for size (3-5 sets per exercise using high rep range for slow twitch fibers + one/2 sets of low reps for fast twitch).

Im using this while on a cut however which is sweet, but is it wise to incorporate German Volume training (most commonly used for mass gain/size as well as strength in the offseason or bulking phase) through cutting as well?

GVT is basically one compound exercise done 10sets for 10 reps followed by 2 - 3 smaller 3 x 12 isolation exercises which would follow the same 5 day split.

[Varven]

Mate, you sound a little undecided with the routines you've put up.

First off, when your in the earlier stages I reckon it doesnt OVERLY matter exactly what training programme you use, just pick something and STICK at it UNTIL you plateau.

If you are using a 5 day split, dont go running after other sh*t. I did that stuff when I first started and you know what happened? - My post count at NZBB went up instead of my lifts.

In other words, stick with your log book, stick with your routine and go at it till you are unable to move any new weights on it. I suspect this will happen after 4 - 8 weeks.

Think about GVT then.

Another thing, do NOT get obsessed that >10 reps = hypertrophy and <8 reps = strenght. Yes it does apply to a certain extent, but look at it this way.

If you are 90kgs and been lifting for 2 years and say you can bench 110kg, squat 150 dead 180... if you focus on getting those lifts bettered, by the time you get your dead over 200 bench over 130 and squat over 180, and youve been eating like you wanna grow, YOU WILL GROW!!

Yes, I know your cutting, and IMO as long as your diet is in place (and cardio) you will cut.....

Here is something else for you to think about it... If you are working out in the 5 - 8 rep range you are building strenght right, now apart from CNS adaptation, past a certain point YOU DO GET muscle hypertrophy as a result of strenght gains. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Personally I favour a "powerbuilding routine" if you are healthy and dont have damaged joints like myself:

Day 1

Flat Bench 4x 6 - 8

Incline DB' press 4x8 - 12

DB flyes/cable cross overs 4x 12 - 15

H.I.I.T cardio

Day 2

Squat 4x 6- 8

SLDL 4x 8 - 12

Leg Press 4x 12 - 15

Halm string curls of some sort 4x 12 - 15

if your still alive do some leg extensions

if not, whatever makes your calves grow

Day 3

Full Deadlifts/Rack deadlifts 4x6 - 8

Lat Pull downs/weighted chins/assisted pull ups: wide grip: 4x 8 - 12

Bent over rows, 1 arm db rows, seated rows: 4x 8 - 12

Cardio for 30 mins at steady hr of some 60 - 70% max hr

Day 4

Triceps: Close grip presses 4x 6 - 8

Skull crushers: 4x 8 - 12

Tricep rope push downs: 3x 8 - 12

Biceps: Standing bb curls 4x 6- 8

Preacher curls: 4x 8 - 12

Hammer curls: 3x 8 - 12

Forearms

any 2 exs, high rep sets work best for me.

H.I.IT cardio again if needed.

[Varven]

Oh yeah you see there is a "Main" excercise on every day, i.e. something with the 6- 8 rep range..you want to be trying to nail that b**ch's ass every time you lift. If your reps or plates aren't increasing more than 2 sessions in a row, time to change the excercise.

[Arjun]

Mate, you sound a little undecided with the routines you've put up.

First off, when your in the earlier stages I reckon it doesnt OVERLY matter exactly what training programme you use, just pick something and STICK at it UNTIL you plateau.

If you are using a 5 day split, dont go running after other sh*t. I did that stuff when I first started and you know what happened? - My post count at NZBB went up instead of my lifts.

In other words, stick with your log book, stick with your routine and go at it till you are unable to move any new weights on it. I suspect this will happen after 4 - 8 weeks.

Think about GVT then.

Another thing, do NOT get obsessed that >10 reps = hypertrophy and <8 reps = strenght. Yes it does apply to a certain extent, but look at it this way.

If you are 90kgs and been lifting for 2 years and say you can bench 110kg, squat 150 dead 180... if you focus on getting those lifts bettered, by the time you get your dead over 200 bench over 130 and squat over 180, and youve been eating like you wanna grow, YOU WILL GROW!!

Yes, I know your cutting, and IMO as long as your diet is in place (and cardio) you will cut.....

Here is something else for you to think about it... If you are working out in the 5 - 8 rep range you are building strenght right, now apart from CNS adaptation, past a certain point YOU DO GET muscle hypertrophy as a result of strenght gains. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Personally I favour a "powerbuilding routine" if you are healthy and dont have damaged joints like myself:

Day 1

Flat Bench 4x 6 - 8

Incline DB' press 4x8 - 12

DB flyes/cable cross overs 4x 12 - 15

H.I.I.T cardio

Day 2

Squat 4x 6- 8

SLDL 4x 8 - 12

Leg Press 4x 12 - 15

Halm string curls of some sort 4x 12 - 15

if your still alive do some leg extensions

if not, whatever makes your calves grow

Day 3

Full Deadlifts/Rack deadlifts 4x6 - 8

Lat Pull downs/weighted chins/assisted pull ups: wide grip: 4x 8 - 12

Bent over rows, 1 arm db rows, seated rows: 4x 8 - 12

Cardio for 30 mins at steady hr of some 60 - 70% max hr

Day 4

Triceps: Close grip presses 4x 6 - 8

Skull crushers: 4x 8 - 12

Tricep rope push downs: 3x 8 - 12

Biceps: Standing bb curls 4x 6- 8

Preacher curls: 4x 8 - 12

Hammer curls: 3x 8 - 12

Forearms

any 2 exs, high rep sets work best for me.

H.I.IT cardio again if needed.

Yeah I agree with what you've said, but I want to make size gains most efficiently. Been training on and off for 2 years prior to 08.. started seriously in Jan 08 and planning to stick with bb'ing for the rest of my life!

Was on a upper lower split prior to this 5 day split (i only switched coz i plateau'd).

Its only been 1 wk into this 5 day split though, I guess I'll ride this program until i start plateau'ing again

Thanks for your help!

[Arjun]

One question though, You seem to suggest doing cardio after weights? When glycogen stores are depleted.. is there any benefit to this? Most people seem to say do it before the weights

[Flamer]

One question though, You seem to suggest doing cardio after weights? When glycogen stores are depleted.. is there any benefit to this? Most people seem to say do it before the weights

Why would you do cardio before weights? So your too tired to lift anything?

[Varven]

If the 5 day split works, stick with it till your stuck then change to GVT.

I cannot imagine doing HIIT or 40 mins cardio then tying to lift weights.

Cardio post weights is best.

If you are doing H.I.IT dont worry so much about glycogen depletion, it isnt going to make such a large impact.

If you are still worried make sure pre work out/during your work out/post work out you are getting in L-glutamine and BCAA's.

I too once believed any cardio post work out will stop muscle growth, and it turned me into a fat F@#$k.

Eat properly, you wont loose muscle.

[Arjun]

If the 5 day split works, stick with it till your stuck then change to GVT.

I cannot imagine doing HIIT or 40 mins cardio then tying to lift weights.

Cardio post weights is best.

If you are doing H.I.IT dont worry so much about glycogen depletion, it isnt going to make such a large impact.

If you are still worried make sure pre work out/during your work out/post work out you are getting in L-glutamine and BCAA's.

I too once believed any cardio post work out will stop muscle growth, and it turned me into a fat F@#$k.

Eat properly, you wont loose muscle.

Yeah thanks yep, been doing cardio be4 workouts for quite some time now and it's working well so I'll stick with it for now

Heres my routine currently, anything I should/could change to make it more effective?

Saturday:

AM: Cardio || Abs / Legs

15 min Treadmill -- 12 / 16 + 1 min 20 km/h

15 min X-Train -- Aerobic setting (lvl 9)

Ab Wheel - 5x12

Swiss Ball Ab crunch/Weighted cable crunch - 3x12

Full Squat - 5x6-8

Leg Press - 5x12

Knee Extension - 3x10 SS

Hamstring Curl/Straight Leg DL's - 3x10 SS

Calf Raises 5x12

Sunday:

AM: Cardio || Chest

15 min X-Train HIIT -- lvl 5 - 9

15 min Cycle -- Fat loss HR zone.

Incline/Flat Bench Press - 5x6-8

Cable Crossovers - 3x10 SS

Dips - 3x10 SS

Decline DB Press - 5x12

Monday:

AM: Cardio

40 min elliptical -- Fat loss HR zone.

PM: Arms

Standing BB curls - 5x6-8

DB Concentration Curls - 3x10 SS

Hammer Curl - 3x10 SS

Tricep Extension - 5x6-8

Decline Skull Crushers - 3x12

Forearm Roller - 4x4-6

Seated BB forearm curls - 3x10 (dont know what they're called)

Tuesday: Rest

Wednesday:

AM: Cardio

15 min Cycle -- lvl 6 - 8

15 min X-Train HIIT -- lvl 5 - 9

PM: Deltoids / Abs*

Seated DB Shoulder Press - 5x6-8

DB Side Raises - 3x10 SS

DB Front Raises - 3x10 SS

Military Press - 3x12

Plank - 2x to failure

Side plank(not sure what its called) - 2x to failure

Thursday:

AM: Cardio

40 min elliptical -- Fat loss HR zone.

PM: Back / Traps

Deadlifts - 5x6-8

Seated Cable Rows - 5x6-8

Chin ups/Lat Pulldowns - 3x10 SS

Straight Arm pulldowns - 3x10 SS

DB/BB Shrugs - 5x12

Friday:Rest

[TheGus]

That's a really solid powerbuilding routine Varven has posted. You want gains right? Then you should probably listen to his advice.

Oh yeah and doing cardio before weights is the worst time to do it. You're wasting energy that could be used to lift more.

[Arjun]

That's a really solid powerbuilding routine Varven has posted. You want gains right? Then you should probably listen to his advice.

Oh yeah and doing cardio before weights is the worst time to do it. You're wasting energy that could be used to lift more.

Ok thanks

[Luigi]

That's a really solid powerbuilding routine Varven has posted. You want gains right? Then you should probably listen to his advice.

Oh yeah and doing cardio before weights is the worst time to do it. You're wasting energy that could be used to lift more.

pretty much same routine/exercises im doing at the moment except i do a shoulder day as well - working good for me so give it a shot!

[Varven]

Just to get an idea of your training intensity, what sort of weights are you able to get on the 5 day split.. we know you are around 90kgs bw... and what is your diet like ??

[Arjun]

Just to get an intention of your training intensity, what sort of weights are you able to get on the 5 day split.. we know you are around 90kgs bw... and what is your diet like ??

Im only 70kg TBW now not 90kg.. I started off at 90kg in Jan, but I have come down to 70kg over the 8 months or so.

Umm I was on an upper / lower split which I used to repeat 3 times a wk (YES OVERTRAINING! LOL) so this is my first week of the 5 day split so I've started off light and I'm gona work my way up (after an SD period of about 12 days from previous program).

Today's workout however I was able to do:

Seated Cable Rows - 5x6-8 -- 42, 42, 48, 48, 48 KG (did 8-10 reps mostly today)

Chin ups/Lat Pulldowns - 3x10 SS -- 42, 48, 54 KG

Straight Arm pulldowns - 3x10 SS -- 24, 18, 24 KG

DB/BB Shrugs - 5x12 -- 30 KG x 5

EDIT: Oh yeah today I also added another exercise for my back (the one where u lie face down on an incline bench and pull the DB's up like reverse flyes)

3 x 6 kg

[Varven]

How tall are you ?

what is your body fat ??

[Arjun]

How tall are you ?

what is your body fat ??

5'7 1/2 ish

18 yrs old

approx 11 - 12% bodyfat (gettin it re-tested tmrw)

[Old Bull]

but is it wise to incorporate German Volume training (most commonly used for mass gain/size as well as strength in the offseason or bulking phase) through cutting as well?

GVT is basically one compound exercise done 10sets for 10 reps followed by 2 - 3 smaller 3 x 12 isolation exercises which would follow the same 5 day split.

GVT is probably more suited to a intermedite lifter not a beginner under 2 years solid training. Like all Eastern Bloc training it is percentage based, recovery is very important and it is a stand alone system.

We use this system in The House and a few have failed to finish, not quite telling the truth on their percentages.

Like you said above it is a off season bulking phase

OB

[Arjun]

but is it wise to incorporate German Volume training (most commonly used for mass gain/size as well as strength in the offseason or bulking phase) through cutting as well?

GVT is basically one compound exercise done 10sets for 10 reps followed by 2 - 3 smaller 3 x 12 isolation exercises which would follow the same 5 day split.

GVT is probably more suited to a intermedite lifter not a beginner under 2 years solid training. Like all Eastern Bloc training it is percentage based, recovery is very important and it is a stand alone system.

We use this system in The House and a few have failed to finish, not quite telling the truth on their percentages.

Like you said above it is a off season bulking phase

OB

ALright thanks, I'm gona stick to my 5 day split for now, then move over to the powerbuilding program until i plateau and hopefully that should give me a solid 12 - 16 weeks bulking in which il try GVT next winter Thanks

[Varven]

Its your choice, but honestly, at 5'7, 70kgs, 12% body fat, I wouldn't dream of cutting.

If you want body building as a life style you want size. If you can't see your abs, dont panic, you are not competing within the next 3 months (Are u ?), so forget it!

My honest advice would be to take it easy on the cardio go mad on the eating and the weights and hit 90kgs first. Set aside 2 years for this if you don't wanna dirty bulk. Your bf will go up, but who cares, I think 90kgs with a body fat of 15 - 17%. And then a cut down towards 8% bf will see you with a much more impressive physique.

[Arjun]

Its your choice, but honestly, at 5'7, 70kgs, 12% body fat, I wouldn't dream of cutting.

If you want body building as a life style you want size. If you can't see your abs, dont panic, you are not competing within the next 3 months (Are u ?), so forget it!

My honest advice would be to take it easy on the cardio go mad on the eating and the weights and hit 90kgs first. Set aside 2 years for this if you don't wanna dirty bulk. Your bf will go up, but who cares, I think 90kgs with a body fat of 15 - 17%. And then a cut down towards 8% bf will see you with a much more impressive physique.

I am aware of that BUT my goal was a 6 pack by Dec 1st which I WILL get -- after that though I'm gona do a clean bulk through winter, and cut again for next summer... I'm not pushing for an overly huge physique in 1 bulk and cut cycle, I'll do it over the next few cycles (each year being one)