When to start Cutting.

[Varven]

Hello everone.

Im wondering what time frame I require to cover a cut cycle.

At the moment Im at 82.5 kg and an estimate of about 20% bf.

My goal is to get to 10% BF by NOV 2nd week. Im on a bulk cycle at the moment. Most of its clean bulk, not intending to gain much fat .

I realize its impossible to have an exact estimate without a final bodyweight.

But some guesses for final bodyweight :

90 kg @ 20% BF

OR

95 kg @ 20% BF.

Im not intending to take part in any show, its just for personal satisfaction.

Will 8 weeks of cutting be sufficient ?

I intend to use carb cut offs, Thermo's and a crap load of Green tea to cut :grin:

No other artificial substances, natural only.

best,

V.V.

[jono]

Hello everone.

Im wondering what time frame I require to cover a cut cycle.

At the moment Im at 82.5 kg and an estimate of about 20% bf.

My goal is to get to 10% BF by NOV 2nd week. Im on a bulk cycle at the moment. Most of its clean bulk, not intending to gain much fat .

I realize its impossible to have an exact estimate without a final bodyweight.

But some guesses for final bodyweight :

90 kg @ 20% BF

OR

95 kg @ 20% BF.

Im not intending to take part in any show, its just for personal satisfaction.

Will 8 weeks of cutting be sufficient ?

I intend to use carb cut offs, Thermo's and a crap load of Green tea to cut :grin:

No other artificial substances, natural only.

best,

V.V.

at least 8 weeks. mayb even 12. you dont wanna drop weight too quick... otherwise you wont look as good in the end :grin:

edit: btw you really dont need all these green tee thermos etc. its a waste of $$. cardio + clean diet WILL get you there. dont get sucked in like the average gym goer

[Growth]

I would look at dropping between 0.5 and 1kg a week on your cut. Its hard to determine what BF you will be at the end of it though, its easy to say ill lose X amount of weight, but the composition of muscle loss and fat loss will be determined by many variables.

Dont loose more than 1kg a week or youll likely be sacrificing more muscle than you would like. Say you aim for a 0.5kg loss per week, just keep loosing at that rate until you reach your goal.

Im all for thermos on a cut, just make sure you get a quality one.

[Ash]

edit: btw you really dont need all these green tee thermos etc. its a waste of $$. cardio + clean diet WILL get you there. dont get sucked in like the average gym goer

I don't really agree with you there jono - green tea has been proven to have thermogenic qualities. It's really inexpensive and is good for you on many other levels. Check out this link for more information:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=7038

As for thermogenics like ECA stacks. They do work although some of the outrageous claims as to their effectiveness made by supplement companies need to be taken with a grain of salt. The cost is also a lot higher than a few boxes of green tea, especially if you're after an effective one.

I don't think that the green tea or the thermogenics (or any other supplements) should be used as an excuse to slack off on diet or cardio but they can be of some help in a cutting situation. I reckon every edge counts when what you're doing is basically fighting your body but you've got to weigh up the cost/benefit ratio.

[jono]

edit: btw you really dont need all these green tee thermos etc. its a waste of $$. cardio + clean diet WILL get you there. dont get sucked in like the average gym goer

I don't really agree with you there jono - green tea has been proven to have thermogenic qualities. It's really inexpensive and is good for you on many other levels. Check out this link for more information:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=7038

As for thermogenics like ECA stacks. They do work although some of the outrageous claims as to their effectiveness made by supplement companies need to be taken with a grain of salt. The cost is also a lot higher than a few boxes of green tea, especially if you're after an effective one.

I don't think that the green tea or the thermogenics (or any other supplements) should be used as an excuse to slack off on diet or cardio but they can be of some help in a cutting situation. I reckon every edge counts when what you're doing is basically fighting your body but you've got to weigh up the cost/benefit ratio.

well considering you can cut without any supps at all with very good results, and also considering hes not dieting for a contest, why make it more complicated that it needs to be.

[Pseudonym]

Just for the experiment's sake, before Christmas I did a comparison of dieting with and without thermos.

It's absolutely possible to cut without using them, but you will find results happen quicker while taking thermos. Also, because they increase your metabolism, it takes longer to plateau on a diet - so you don't have to keep reducing food levels quite so fast. (Always a good thing! )

[Ash]

well considering you can cut without any supps at all with very good results, and also considering hes not dieting for a contest, why make it more complicated that it needs to be.

True enough. On the other hand, you can also build muscle without whey powder or creatine etc. so why use them?

Each to his own I guess, different strokes and all that. :wink: I am no guru on any of this stuff, I just like an edge if I can get one.

I think we both agree that no supplements can replace good old fashioned sweat, hard work and proper eating - whether you're cutting or building.

[jono]

well considering you can cut without any supps at all with very good results, and also considering hes not dieting for a contest, why make it more complicated that it needs to be.

True enough. On the other hand, you can also build muscle without whey powder or creatine etc. so why use them?

Each to his own I guess, different strokes and all that. :wink: I am no guru on any of this stuff, I just like an edge if I can get one.

I think we both agree that no supplements can replace good old fashioned sweat, hard work and proper eating - whether you're cutting or building.

you got that right

[ExpensiveUrine]

True enough. On the other hand, you can also build muscle without whey powder or creatine etc. so why use them?

Nutrient timing.

If you're 82.5 kgs now at 20%bf, I highly doubt that you'll reach 95kg at the same bodyfat %, even that of 90 kgs.

But for the sake of it I'll use 90 kgs (198lbs) as an example.

Bf = 20%

Bf-weight = 39.6 lb, (18 kgs) // 198x0.20

Lean body weight = 158.4 lb (72 kgs) // 198-39.6

Your goal = 10% bf

(100-20)/(100-10)x198 = 176 lb (80kgs)

Target weight at 10%bf = 176 lb (80kgs)

Total weight loss (from 20% to 10%) is 22lb. (10kgs)

About 10-12 weeks.

[Marcus]

well considering you can cut without any supps at all with very good results, and also considering hes not dieting for a contest, why make it more complicated that it needs to be.

Green tea is the shit though man.

[Growth]

ExpensiveUrine, do your calculations assume no muscle loss and only fat loss?

When i followed your calculation when he starts cut he has 72kg lean muscle but when he finishes he still does?

I doubt he will be able to achive zero muscle loss.

It is a good estimate but in reality his actual results would be a little off wouldnt they?

[ExpensiveUrine]

ExpensiveUrine, do your calculations assume no muscle loss and only fat loss?

When i followed your calculation when he starts cut he has 72kg lean muscle but when he finishes he still does?

I doubt he will be able to achive zero muscle loss.

It is a good estimate but in reality his actual results would be a little off wouldnt they?

You're correct.

My calculations assume only fat loss, since it's hard to predict the outcome of his diet in terms of LBM loss.

But let's say he starts at 198 lb (90kgs) at 20% bf. (Lean body weight = 158.4 lb (72kgs)*see above for calculations*)

After he completes the diet with an exercise program...

He ends up at 182 lbs (82.72kgs) at 15% bf.

Bf-weight = 27.3lb (12.41kgs) // 182x0.15

Lean body weight = 154.7 lb (70.34kgs) // 182-27.3

Hence....

============

BEFORE

============

Bf-weight = 39.6 lb, (18 kgs)

Lean body weight = 158.4 lb (72 kgs)

============

AFTER

============

Bf-weight = 27.3lb (12.41kgs)

Lean body weight = 154.7 lb (70.34kgs)

This would indicate 12.3 lbs (5.95kgs) loss in fat mass, as well as 3.7 lbs (1.68 kgs) loss in LBM mass.

I rounded the numbers so the outcomes might not be exact.

You'll have to know the outcome of your diet in order to determine your LBM loss, bf% loss.

[Growth]

Yeah thats cool mate, its a pretty good estimate like you say.

[Varven]

Expensive Urine,

Why do you feel it wont be possible to reach a higher bodyweight at the same body fat level ?

Im guessing you mean to say I will gain more body fat right ?

just clarifying,

thanks,

V.V.

[Growth]

I agree with ExpensiveUrine, i think you will be hard pressed to go from 82.5 to 90-95 and retain the same bodyfat.

If you want to be cut for the summer (say you want to finish your cut on jan 1) given that the general opinion is that youll need 12 odd weeks to cut, you will have to start oct 1. That only leaves 3 months from today to finish your bulk and obtain your desired weight (90-95). So in short your looking to gain around 10 kilos in 12 weeks. Thats about 1kg a week which is pretty quick to put on weight, meaning if you do put on the weight that fast, a higher proportion is going to be fat compared with a slower bulk.

10kgs in 10 weeks is a quick bulk, quick bulks lead to increased BF levels. I doubt you will reach 90-95 and still retain the same BF as you are now.

[jono]

I agree with ExpensiveUrine, i think you will be hard pressed to go from 82.5 to 90-95 and retain the same bodyfat.

If you want to be cut for the summer (say you want to finish your cut on jan 1) given that the general opinion is that youll need 12 odd weeks to cut, you will have to start oct 1. That only leaves 3 months from today to finish your bulk and obtain your desired weight (90-95). So in short your looking to gain around 10 kilos in 12 weeks. Thats about 1kg a week which is pretty quick to put on weight, meaning if you do put on the weight that fast, a higher proportion is going to be fat compared with a slower bulk.

10kgs in 10 weeks is a quick bulk, quick bulks lead to increased BF levels. I doubt you will reach 90-95 and still retain the same BF as you are now.

a kg a week is going to be mostly fat, and hard to sustain

[Varven]

Ok got it guys, well im at 83kg today and Im not gonna put on too much fat over the next few weeks. so I ve readjusted my goals to :

gaining 5 - 8 kgs. Yes its a compromise but its my first cycle and lesson learnt for future cycles.