failure question

[Mikey6]

I dont want to ruin the optimal workout thread with a dumb newbie question.

But can someone explain to me what the difference is between working sets till failure and working sets to a pre prescribed quantity.

Can fatiguing a muscle keep that muscle from growing and turn a originally heavy w/o or loading w/o to a cardio exercise?

My situation is this:-

I will do 3-5 sets of 6-7 reps with my heaviest weight in each movement.

The 6th or 7th rep in each set is pretty much my fail point to where I cannot possibly lift another rep in that particular set.

As the 4th or 5th set approaches I will be failing on about the 3rd or 5th rep.

Is this normal practice?

Is this considered till failure?

How effective is this training compared to stopping before failure?

Thanks

[2guns]

i think as u train more u gte to knwo yr own strength/endurace like for example if i decided today i was gonna do my sets for back in the 6-8 reps range. id use a weight for each set where i know by the 7th and 8th rep id be struggling to perform them. then after 2 sets of that i mite use the same weight again for the 3rd set and only get to 7 reps not 8 beofore i fatigue and cant lift the weigth for the last rep.

if i wanted to do 12-15 id pick a lighter weight but id still make sure it was the rigth weight so at 13 or 14 reps into the set id be busting my arse to get the weight up.

is this wat u mean??

after iv warmed up my training is always like this. (hope u get wat i was saying, and it relates to yr question... im not really sure wat u are wanting to know, but if u aim for 12 reps and do it easy then thats not really hard training is it?)

[Mikey6]

Yeah it does actually.

So what we do is quite normal as far as training Heavy and growth through doing so.

Cheers

Total failure through fatigue must only come through constantly dropping the weight until even the lightest weight is a total struggle in a final set.

[2guns]

well thats just one way of many ways to train bro

[Mikey6]

well thats just one way of many ways to train bro

Swt, I understand that.

Once I can set myself up with some good DB hooks, I should be able to go a great deal heaveir and drop my sets a little or even my reps. the link you provided on my DB spotter thread, shows an impressive looking machine that would deffinatly come in handy, but I gonna put togeather somthing like Old Bulls got, so I can simply take em to the gym with me in my Gym bag.

[nzmusclemonster]

That seems like a lot of sets to failure....

Dorian and Mentzer's theory was that when you do a set to failure you are telling the muscle that it isn't strong enough, so next time it has to grow and be stronger so it can deal with that weight and get more reps. Hammering this message home with more sets can be redundant and also counter productive.

Personally I think the optimal regime would involve taking a few sets to work up to your heaviest weight on a particular exercise and doing one, maybe two sets to failure and then move on to the next exercise...

[mr natural]

yeah i agree, i think if your training naturally then you should not do to many sets to "absolute" failure.

[Optimass]

yeah i agree, i think if your training naturally then you should not do to many sets to "absolute" failure.

That seems like a lot of sets to failure....

Personally I think the optimal regime would involve taking a few sets to work up to your heaviest weight on a particular exercise and doing one, maybe two sets to failure and then move on to the next exercise...

This is becoming more the normal view in scientific circles - more and more information being released to state that reaching failure more than once on an exercise in the same workout is counter productive. It is hard for some to swallow as many have trained for the pump over the years.

I personally only reach actual failure on the last set of each exercise (2-6 reps) --- eg d/b bench .. 3 sets ... set 1 is at 80% of weight for 10 reps but only do 8 .... set 2 is at 95% of weight for 10 reps but stopping at 8reps .... final set aim for Max weight 2 - 6 reps (the closer to two the better). Similar to Dorian and Mentzer ... (Max sets in workout 12 - 14 / approx 40 minutes total) --> HARD AND FAST! With less injury and more strength gains.

[biggurl27]

Well said :nod:

[Mikey6]

That seems like a lot of sets to failure....

Dorian and Mentzer's theory was that when you do a set to failure you are telling the muscle that it isn't strong enough, so next time it has to grow and be stronger so it can deal with that weight and get more reps. Hammering this message home with more sets can be redundant and also counter productive.

Personally I think the optimal regime would involve taking a few sets to work up to your heaviest weight on a particular exercise and doing one, maybe two sets to failure and then move on to the next exercise...

I agree, it is, and something I need to start curving more towards doing less.

I very rarely go lighter, in fact I try to increase my weights even just a little bit each set.

But maybe instead of going up in small increments, I may just need to warm up, then pretty much leap in to heavy and from there on up.

I stopped trying to lift for the pump quite some time ago, when I found out this wasn't increasing my strength and even may gains were slow.

Since Ive been going a lot heaver Ive had mass improvement in literally a matter of weeks not months.

This I need to keep up. only problem is, my arm injures do inhibit me somewhat.

However I have finally swallowed my pride, taken off my headphones and been asking a few to spot me.

Also developing the DB hooks will definitely come in handy.