Doing a straight Cycle.

[Specter]

10 weeks

200mg - Deca a week for first two weeks, then increase to 400mg

250mg - Sust a week

60-80mg Daily - D-bol (I usually only do 5 weeks but will push it to 6 weeks.)

Nolvadex 40-60mg daily beginning week 2.

Dunno if I should increase my sust intake later on with the deca after week 2.

Havent taken gear in 3 years by the way, so looking foward to shoving that beautiful needle into my buttocks! :roll:

[2guns]

how much are u paying for all of that?, if u dnt mind me asking?

[Specter]

Keeping it confidential...sorry bud.

[2guns]

sure

[diamond]

10 weeks

200mg - Deca a week for first two weeks, then increase to 400mg

250mg - Sust a week

60-80mg Daily - D-bol (I usually only do 5 weeks but will push it to 6 weeks.)

Nolvadex 40-60mg daily beginning week 2.

Dunno if I should increase my sust intake later on with the deca after week 2.

Havent taken gear in 3 years by the way, so looking foward to shoving that beautiful needle into my buttocks! :roll:

that's a lot of info for someone trying to keep things confidential.

[2guns]

its fair enough, it might give away who he got it off which could lead to people knowing who he is if he mentions proces.

personally i dnt think there is much point posting up cycle and results u got from it without pics to show for it

[biomax]

The cycle looks good but if I may make a suggestion I would rather start high on the Deca and taper down towards the end. The Deca takes quite a while to kick in and takes about 3 weeks to totally clear the system. I believe that to get the best bang out of your Deca and to counter the severe suppresion from it, you should hit it hard from the beginning and let it clear the system while the Sust is still active in the system. Personally I prefer the Phenyl propionate ester, because its much more controllable due to it's shorter half life.

Just my 02 cents and best of luck with the cycle!

Going to the Max!

Bio

[2guns]

biomax where ru getting this info?

[biomax]

biomax where ru getting this info?

Have been hanging around a lot of the American sites/boards (t-mag, anabolicminds, anabolex and steroid.com). Reading and asking questions to the guys on the boards.

Also read a few books and the general consensus is that the half life of the Decanoate ester is between 12-14days, so you can add about another half of a half life to get to phase where levels are so low that they don't exert a real effect anymore.

Building the Perfect Beast by Author L. Rea have quite a few pages where he discuss this matter quite extensively. This is the only source that I can think of now from the top of my head.

Do you have other info on the matter?

Bio

[Specter]

Thanks 2Guns for understanding and thanks Biomax for the tip, I did wonder to hit the Deca harder at first and then ease of it during the later stages of the cycle......I got no problem in posting this on here 2Guns, but yeah you are right, without pics it dont mean diddly squat so I will promise to put up pics at the end of it all, I walk around the gym and some of the guys ask if Im going to compete and that I look awesome, and I sit there thinking that I look small and way outta shape. and if these guys are taking the pizz outta me or what? LOL ....anyway I wont be competeing and never have competed. I have been training and put on too much fat and water retention, which due to laziness I wentfrom 84kg cut as hell last year to 103kg recorded in my training diary up until yesterday. For the next 6-8 weeks I will be doing a quick cutting phase just to get rid of the fat and water retention, and have tweeked my diet(Which I should have done ages ago) to 60-90g Carbs and a protein intake of 350-400g a day. Been recording everything I eat in my food journal. My diet will change again once I start my cycle on gear to more carbs etc...Anywayz..its 5:17am in the morning and I am off the gym. have a good day guys and girls.

[2guns]

Do you have other info on the matter?

not really, but i wouldnt personally do that with the deca.

can u give an example of the deca dosages in the begining you would recommend for specters cycle? im guessing using yr way ud keep the sus the same...

here are some different ways to structure your cycle (u might find it useul, u might not)

Pyramiding

Pyramiding refers to administering a steroid to create a gradual increase in androgen levels, followed by a gradual taper down. The taper up is generally consistent with normal administration of the commonly used heavy-ester (enanthate, cypionate, decanoate) steroids due to their pharmacological assimilation. They take time to build up plasma levels of the parent hormone. The taper down is from either spreading the dose intervals out or by administering less. These cycles typically range between eight to 12 weeks.

This method is not commonly accepted today. There is an understanding that the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis (endogenous production) can not fully recover until all exogenous administration stops; tapering only delays recovery of natural gonadal functioning. The use of productive post-cycle therapy drugs have also made this method less popular; instead of tapering off, drugs like Clomid are used to recover natural androgen levels quickly.

Flat Pyramiding

Flat pyramiding begins with a gradual increase in androgen levels; just as with pyramiding, the gradual taper up is consistent with normal administration. After even plasma levels are reached, subsequent administration is kept consistent. Once the cycle is over, all drug use is terminated with no taper down. After the last ester runs its course, post cycle therapy drugs are used with a goal for quick recovery of natural androgen production. Flat pyramids also tend to be used for eight to 12 weeks.

This is the most frequently discussed method for using anabolic-androgenic steroids today.

Short and Heavy

Short and heavy - sometimes called blast or blitz - cycles refer to the protocols that dramatically increase the total steroid burden on the body, but the duration is kept very short. This method can only be correctly and safely employed by advanced athletes and experienced steroid users. Doses typically reach more than double the weekly androgen use applied under more conservative, longer cycles. The cycle is short-lived, around 30 or 40 days, with a pre-cycle priming period to sensitize the body for a more productive and immediate growth spurt. The preparatory periods usually lasts much longer than the cycles themselves.

Again, this method is not for beginners or immature athletes. Those using this method should have a good understanding of what supraphysiological levels of androgens do to their system; as well as advanced nutritional and training variables. This is especially important when heavy, long esters are used, since high-dose front-loads are used to boost blood levels up right away.

This method has been around for awhile, but it hasn’t caught much mainstream attention. With a proper prime, lean weight gains are significant within very short periods. It simply takes some advanced knowledge about oneself to do it all correctly and most important: to maintain gains.

Staggered

Staggered cycles involve swapping out compounds and doses; normally quite frequently. This is typically a long cycle - constantly getting extended to help further gains when they become static. Many feel this is a very ineffective method unless you really know what you are doing, certainly not something for beginners.

Front-loading

Front loading refers to using the same compound with a short ester (acetate, propionate) or no ester (suspension) to get blood levels up right away. Front loading can also be accomplished with heavy esters by doubling the maintenance dose prior to the first half life.

Front loading has been around for awhile but is not commonly used. The idea is to get blood levels of the parent hormone up right away, so results can be obtained faster.

Some feel front loading is not necessary, nor productive; others use the method simply for steroids with heavy esters, to shorten the waiting period before gains are noticed from the drug program. Many use front loading to get a steroid cycle started and subsequently ended faster - with less HPTA impact.

Jump Starting

Jump starting refers to starting a cycle of heavy ester steroids with a compound that has either: a rapid releasing ester, a steroid without an ester or a quickly metabolized oral. This is an old and very common practice. Dianabol, an orally available steroid, is commonly used to jump a mass-building cycle; providing good localized blood flow within a trained muscle (pumps), general increase in disposition and quick weight gains.

Bridging

Bridging refers to the use of an anabolic steroid to fill a gap between steroid cycles. Bridging is typically only needed by those whom have exceeded a level of muscularity that their system can not naturally support. Bridging is often accomplished using drugs that either have minimal impact on endogenous androgen production or by using quickly metabolized compounds once per day, such as taking a single dose of Dianabol or testosterone suspension.

These are simply methods that bodybuilders have developed through years of trial and error. It’s common for an athlete to become an evangelist to one method but keeping an open mind will lead to more productive training years supplemented with steroid use.

[2guns]

in the Short and Heavy paragrapg they refer to "PRIMING"

this explains priming..... (sorry fro semi hi-jacking your thread but i thought all this info could help anyone, even if uve been doing for a long time. just some info from my computer that iv gathered from various websites)

What is priming?

Priming is a preparatory method used to create a favorable growth environment so an AAS cycle can maximize muscle gains. The goal of priming is to make an athletes system very sensitive to increased calories, greater training intensity and elevated anabolic hormones. Psychologically, a trainee should feel pent up and ready to move heavy loads.

Priming should be done before every cycle - no matter the athlete’s previous AAS cycle experience. If completed correctly, priming will lead to very quick and dramatic results. Because of the faster results, cycle duration can also be cut back to make coming off and restoring proper hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis functioning easier, for a faster recovery of the body’s endogenous androgen production.

How should you prime?

Priming involves correct dietary and training manipulations that allow an athlete to lower body fat while sparing muscle. Basically, it is essential to diet down slow enough to simply lose fat - again, no muscle or strength should be lost.

Bodybuilders spend a lot of time preparing to exhibit a lean, muscular build. But other things are going on inside. Their body is getting really sensitive for a period of growth following the long period of dieting and depletion training. Most advanced bodybuilders - especially those that compete - know how responsive the body can be right after leaning up; such as the growth spurts frequently experienced after a competition with or without concurrent AAS administration. This is an example of what occurs by priming before a bulking phase, although pre-contest routines are generally too exhaustive since extremely low body fat levels are required. Simply put: priming opens the window for a great opportunity to obtain phenomenal muscle building results and end training plateaus.

Training cycles must change as goals change. While priming, the training should not be so intense that overtraining is likely; in fact, a general maintenance routine would be best in many circumstances. The training routine should also let the athlete mentally prepare for a split that is very progressive. The amount of aerobic training (as well a total calorie intake) is determined by current lean body mass and what has previously been learned about personal metabolism and limitations. The concurrent aerobic and anaerobic training effect won’t limit results since the goal is not to gain strength or muscle but rather to preserve it.

The diet should allow the body to become sensitive to carbohydrates and the other macronutrients. Generally, a cyclic-ketogenic diet works wonders. This method helps many lose fat while preserving lean body mass while becoming carbohydrate sensitive for superior calorie partitioning once the AAS cycle begins.

It is very catabolic to train with no carbohydrate intake and no scheduled carbohydrate loads; lost muscle is inevitable. Why take two steps back and then two steps forward every time you cycle? Scheduling carbohydrate loads presents an opportunity to fill out energy stores for a productive - and frequently progressive - power workouts, opportunities to fight for strength levels and muscle mass.

Using a CKD approach, carbohydrates remain very low for three or four days - maximum - followed by a “carb up,” a period where carbohydrate intake is substantial. Remember, glycogen levels must become grossly depleted during the weekly rotation to ensure the proper response from a carbohydrate load. Be careful of total calorie intake - results gained by obtaining low carbohydrate can be diverted if total calorie intake is too high; this can negatively affect the depletion phase.

After successfully depleting glycogen levels, a subsequent carb up can not only replenish glycogen depots but super compensate them. Stick to high-protein and high-carbohydrate food sources during the carbohydrate load. Total calorie intake during this period can be very high - some can eat well over 6,000 calories and still burn fat! Any high-fat cravings should be curbed within the first several hours of the carbohydrate load. Studies show fat gain during this time is very low since the body is more interested in replenishing itself than it is in storing fat. As you advance through the carbohydrate load, high fat foods are more likely to be stored as fat.

Regardless, carbohydrate loading will cause dramatic increases in bodyweight, though this is not suggestive of regaining fat. Weight fluctuations vary based on the athletes lean body mass. It is common for many to re-gain six to 10 pounds after a carbohydrate load due; much of this is due to the concurrent water uptake required to store the excess supply of glycogen. During the depletion week, it is common for many to lose seven to 12 pounds - roughly netting one or two pounds of fat loss per week with the rest of the weight composed mostly of dropped water.

The carbohydrate load also provides a key opportunity to train heavy and possibly make some gains in limit strength. A succeeding power training day is a great opportunity to accurately gauge muscle wasting or drops in limit strength. An abbreviated full body workout can be used with great success. All of the lifts should stay strong or possibly get stronger - use a workout journal!

The last four or five days before the cycle starts should be low carbohydrate. The steroid cycle should commence on the same day as a carbohydrate load. Testosterone and most of its popular derivatives will make this carbohydrate load very effective. Glycogen super compensation can occur very quickly, especially if short-ester (suspension, acetate, propionate) steroids are used; otherwise, front load longer esters (enanthate, cypionate, decanoate) to get blood levels up quickly.

Here is an example split for successful priming (based on Ultimate Diet 2.0 by Lyle McDonald, which is considered an up-to-date version of Underground Bodyopus by Daniel Duchaine):

Day 1: Moderate Carb/Cardio at maintenance calorie intake.

Day 2: Low Carb/Upperbody Supersets at a caloric deficit, either through diet or cardio.

Day 3: Low Carb/Lowerbody Supersets at a caloric deficit, either through diet or cardio.

Day 4: Low Carb/Cardio at a caloric deficit, either through diet or cardio.

Day 5: Low Carb/Full Body Workout with daytime calorie intake should be slightly less than they were during the previous days. The carbohydrate load should follow immediately after evening training.

Day 6: Carb Load/No training

Day 7: Moderate Carb/Power Training (Squats, Deadlifts and Bench Presses), eating slightly above maintenance.

Repeat

Once the cycle has begun, your body will remain very responsive and you should begin training hard; using supersets, drop sets, rest-pause - heavy and intense training. You should feel pent up and ready for it. As always, a training log will help maximize the growth window.

How long should the priming period last?

Proper priming generally last about six to eight weeks, pre-cycle. The body will be very responsive if finished correctly and long enough. Obviously, finding the best ratio between priming, cutting and growth macro cycles can guarantee the greatest results during the training year. This relation is best identified through experience.

Successful priming will bring your body fat levels down but the most important aspect is to become sensitive for a growth period. If body fat is high, an athlete could extend the priming period with a target body composition in mind before switching to a growth phase but don’t allow gross overtraining to occur. If body fat mass is currently out of control, it is better to focus on dieting and training strictly for fat loss. A lean body is much more effective at proper calorie partitioning. Once bodyfat levels are within reason, take a brief pause, and then begin priming for the AAS cycle.

Are any ancillary drugs helpful for priming?

Proviron and Bromocriptine can be very helpful for sustaining muscle mass and fat metabolism. Proviron helps to support natural testosterone levels during a calorie restricted diet. Bromocriptine helps support suitable hormone levels while training to metabolize body fat; in addition to dulling hunger pangs. Either drug can help trick your body from trying to put a stopper on fat loss and limit muscle wasting. Unfortunately, Bromocriptine is notorious for bad side effects, such as decreased appetite and nausea. This drug should be tapered up and only administered in the mornings, to avoid uncomfortable side effects. Exogenous insulin can help carbohydrate loads - especially brief loads under 24 hours - by increasing faster glycogen storage.

Are any non-pharmaceutical ancillaries helpful for priming?

A multi vitamin and mineral supplement is always good practice while on a macro-restrictive diet, to fill holes in daily nutritional requirements. Extra Vitamin C can also help deter flu symptoms and keep you from falling ill during an important training cycle. A daily dose of around four to eight grams of vitamin C per day will serve to support a healthy immune system during any training cycle. Obviously, getting sick can mess everything up.

Taking a healthy dose of the essential branched chain amino acids helps to deter overtraining and over-reaching symptoms. They also help prevent muscle wasting during dieting to foster a better environment to remain on a progressive strength routine. Studies show that it’s harder to overtrain while taking at least 10 grams of the essential BCAA’s daily. Ten grams pre-workout can have a substantially positive effect on strength and mental focus while using a CKD program.

When you stay low-carbohydrate your body starts to produce less of the digestive enzymes responsible for carbohydrate metabolism. This can cause bad gastrointestinal problems when carbohydrate loading. In particular, a low carbohydrate phase results in less production of the enzyme Amylase. To combat this, you could supplement with digestive enzymes to aid proper digestion.

Charles Poliquin, a famous strength coach, has been quoted supporting the idea of post-workout high-dose glutamine. He suggests this in place of sugar for those needing to drop some body fat. The idea of mega dosing glutamine is debatable but many have used 30 to 40 grams of post-workout glutamine with great success

Caffeine and other thermogenics are an absolute help when training during low carbohydrate intake. They support energy levels and depress appetite. During carbohydrate loading, they help with the lethargic feeling easily acquired from a dramatic increase in starches and sugars. Alternatively, the carbohydrate loading phase can be used as a break from caffeine-containing supplements and drinks.

Taking the time to properly prepare for a steroid cycle can make the experience more rewarding. A properly primed system is more responsive to growth, allowing for a lower dose or shorter duration. Appropriate post-cycle therapy helps retain gains - proper pre-cycle preparation helps attain them.

[samoan_muscle]

Thanks 2Guns for understanding and thanks Biomax for the tip, I did wonder to hit the Deca harder at first and then ease of it during the later stages of the cycle......I got no problem in posting this on here 2Guns, but yeah you are right, without pics it dont mean diddly squat so I will promise to put up pics at the end of it all, I walk around the gym and some of the guys ask if Im going to compete and that I look awesome, and I sit there thinking that I look small and way outta shape. and if these guys are taking the pizz outta me or what? LOL ....anyway I wont be competeing and never have competed. I have been training and put on too much fat and water retention, which due to laziness I wentfrom 84kg cut as hell last year to 103kg recorded in my training diary up until yesterday. For the next 6-8 weeks I will be doing a quick cutting phase just to get rid of the fat and water retention, and have tweeked my diet(Which I should have done ages ago) to 60-90g Carbs and a protein intake of 350-400g a day. Been recording everything I eat in my food journal. My diet will change again once I start my cycle on gear to more carbs etc...Anywayz..its 5:17am in the morning and I am off the gym. have a good day guys and girls.

Little off topic,

but Shucks thats not alot of carbs buddy :shock: :shock: :shock:

Or a alot of food for that matter, might want to revisit your diet at some stage...

[2guns]

specter, why dont u give that priming a go b4 u begin?

[samoan_muscle]

specter, why dont u give that priming a go b4 u begin?

Do you prime 2guns?

[2guns]

no. ill try it one day

i was suggesting to specter so he could give it a go let me know how he found it (guinea pig) :pfft:

[samoan_muscle]

no. ill try it one day

i was suggesting to specter so he could give it a go let me know how he found it (guinea pig) :pfft:

Didnt think so...

Because to prime, you have to actually start cycles...word on the street is that you're still on your first one

[2guns]

Didnt think so...

Because to prime, you have to actually start cycles...word on the street is that you're still on your first one

funny guy!

im not gonna comment back ther, this is a good thread id rather not smack talk u under the table this time

[samoan_muscle]

Didnt think so...

Because to prime, you have to actually start cycles...word on the street is that you're still on your first one

funny guy!

im not gonna comment back ther, this is a good thread id rather not smack talk u under the table this time

I'll smack you on the table if you like :wink:

Last dumb post from me on this thread

[2guns]

thats enough outta u tongan_muscle :pfft:

[Cronus]

My take on ya cycle would be to increase your test to at least match the mg of the Deca to avoid the dreaded Deca dick!. As a general rule of thumb I take at least 250mg more of test per week than Deca.

Thats a good read 2guns some interesting ideas, I might have to try it out next year as part of my training schedule. :nod:

[IronGame]

The cycle looks good but if I may make a suggestion I would rather start high on the Deca and taper down towards the end. The Deca takes quite a while to kick in and takes about 3 weeks to totally clear the system. I believe that to get the best bang out of your Deca and to counter the severe suppresion from it, you should hit it hard from the beginning and let it clear the system while the Sust is still active in the system. Personally I prefer the Phenyl propionate ester, because its much more controllable due to it's shorter half life.

Just my 02 cents and best of luck with the cycle!

Going to the Max!

Bio

Aggreed, front load the deca not the other way around, keep on the test for 3-4 weeks after the last shot of deca. I also prefer NPP to Deca but thats just personal. And you may concider waiting till your 3-4 weeks in to start the Dbol so you see a synergy between that and the 2 other compounds. 40-60mg nolva is far to much IMO and why run it right through the cycle are you highly androgen sensitive? will you get uncontrolable gyno strait away? If you were to run somthing right throughout Adex would be the way to go.

[biomax]

My take on ya cycle would be to increase your test to at least match the mg of the Deca to avoid the dreaded Deca dick!. As a general rule of thumb I take at least 250mg more of test per week than Deca.

Thats a good read 2guns some interesting ideas, I might have to try it out next year as part of my training schedule. :nod:

Yes I have to absolutely agree. Test dosages should normally be higher or even double that of Deca because 90% of the time the test is the base of the cycle. I wasn't sure if Specter wanted to do his cycle based around the Deca, because some guys that have DHT issues like to do that and just throw in a little test to keep the Deca dick away.

Alot of info and very informative by 2guns, thanx for sharing. The problem with these things is that it is like training programs. There are a milion diffirent ways to do a cycle and not everyway is absolutely right or wrong. It is such a individual thing, you have to find the way that works best for you. What I would have done is to start with 600mg of deca for the first 2 wks en then goto 300mg/wk for wks 3-8. If using T/Enanthate I would do that 600mg/wk for wk 1-10 (See comments by Irongame) and keep my Nolva on hand if any Gyno problems start, I will use it, otherwise it is kept for PCT. Not very found of orals so I will only use them the first 2-3 weeks while the injectables are kicking in. Thats one of the ways to do it.

[Specter]

Thanks 2Guns for understanding and thanks Biomax for the tip, I did wonder to hit the Deca harder at first and then ease of it during the later stages of the cycle......I got no problem in posting this on here 2Guns, but yeah you are right, without pics it dont mean diddly squat so I will promise to put up pics at the end of it all, I walk around the gym and some of the guys ask if Im going to compete and that I look awesome, and I sit there thinking that I look small and way outta shape. and if these guys are taking the pizz outta me or what? LOL ....anyway I wont be competeing and never have competed. I have been training and put on too much fat and water retention, which due to laziness I wentfrom 84kg cut as hell last year to 103kg recorded in my training diary up until yesterday. For the next 6-8 weeks I will be doing a quick cutting phase just to get rid of the fat and water retention, and have tweeked my diet(Which I should have done ages ago) to 60-90g Carbs and a protein intake of 350-400g a day. Been recording everything I eat in my food journal. My diet will change again once I start my cycle on gear to more carbs etc...Anywayz..its 5:17am in the morning and I am off the gym. have a good day guys and girls.

Little off topic,

but Shucks thats not alot of carbs buddy :shock: :shock: :shock:

Or a alot of food for that matter, might want to revisit your diet at some stage...

Geez..thanks 2Guns for the long read, and everyone else on their input and advice.

Yeah I know its not a lot of carbs, so it will be a very short cycle without the use of gear.

I will be starting the cycle futher down the track and will increase my carb loading then to match the cycle.

With all the replys on here and info put foward towards this thread, why dont you all start a book?

:pfft:

[2guns]

With all the replys on here and info put foward towards this thread, why dont you all start a book?

i posted that info to help u, im not by any means taking credit form the content. i didnt write it lol, just have some stuff saved on my computer lots of info i find and think ill read later, and its good to keep it coz u always forget. i woulda put a reference but dnt have one for most of my info