superpump250,no-xplode,xpand all banned!! what now?

[jiminycricket70]

Just to clear this up guys:

Its not to do with the amount of Vitamin B12. Its the amount of Folic Acid. When a supplement contains greater than 500mcg of folic acid per daily dose it can only be sold from a pharmacy. Superpump has 420mcg of folic acid per scoop and directions say to take 1-3 scoops a day. This means that the daily dose is 1260mcg of folic acid - can only be sold by a pharmacy.

Flex - anyone can sell vitamin b12 in any quantity, its not regulated.

Unless something has changed, yes it is to do with the Vit B12.

Dietary Supplements Regulations 1985 (SR 1985/208) (as at 03 September 2007)

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulati ... #DLM102135

Maximum daily doses

(1) Every dietary supplement described as or containing minerals or vitamins specified in the first column of the table to this subclause shall be so manufactured that each daily dose (for an adult) does not contain more than the maximum specified in the second column of the table.

TABLE TO SUBCLAUSE (1)

Dietary Supplement Maximum Daily Dose

Minerals:

Copper 5 mg

Iron 24 mg

Selenium 150 mcg

Zinc 15 mg

Vitamins:

Vitamin A or retinol 3000 mcg

Niacin (and salts) or nicotinic acid (and salts) 100 mg

Vitamin B12 or cyanocobalamin or hydroxocobalamin 50 mcg

Vitamin D 25 mcg

Folic acid 300 mcg

(2) Every dietary supplement described as or containing any mineral, other than a mineral specified in regulation 19(1) of these regulations, shall be so manufactured that each daily dose (for an adult) does not contain more than the maximum specified in the current edition of Recommended Dietary Allowances, published by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academy of Science and National Research Council, Washington DC, USA.

They are raising the limit of Folic Acid from 300mcg to 500mcg per daily dose in dietary supplements, but only for products made in compliance with Good Manufacturing Practice (GMP) for medicines.

If it was as simple as just being Folic acid then the label could be changed to recommend only one serve maximum per day. Unfortunately it has 140mcg B12 per serve.

That is corect Flex, when referring to dietary supplements. In this case the product is in breach of the Medicines Act as this is the over-riding legislation. It is the Folic Acid that is the issue.

With dietary supps if you go outside of the doses stated in the legislation you are quoting the only ramification is that you cannot call it a dietary supplement. It does not effect where the supplement can be sold, but may result in the product becoming a Medicine - if so the Medicine Act applies.

[Flex]

That is corect Flex, when referring to dietary supplements. In this case the product is in breach of the Medicines Act as this is the over-riding legislation. It is the Folic Acid that is the issue.

With dietary supps if you go outside of the doses stated in the legislation you are quoting the only ramification is that you cannot call it a dietary supplement. It does not effect where the supplement can be sold, but may result in the product becoming a Medicine - if so the Medicine Act applies.

Maybe I've got my facts wrong - Where are you getting your information from?

I don't understand how the Folic acid can be a problem and not the B12 when both are in excess of the DietSupps limits.

This is how I see it -

SP250 is a dietary supplement - it contains 420mcg of Folic acid per serve. As a dietary supp it can contain up to 500mcg Folic acid and 50mcg of B12 per daily serve. Over that and it technically becomes a pharmacy only product (http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/class/ ... cation.asp). Therefore if the label directions are modified from recommending the use of 3 serves per day down to a maximum of one serve to be used then it is not an issue with the Folic acid. It is however with the B12 as it has 140mcg per serve - unless they change the scoop size or only recommend 1/3 of a serve. This has been done with some products in Australia due to the TGA, and renders many products ineffective.

From my understanding a product does not become a medicine just because the levels of Folic acid or B12 are high - if it was making therapeutic claims as to its physiological effect on the human body (as most sports supps do in breach of the current dietary supps regs) then consent would have to be applied for and granted to be distributed as a medicine. This would be regardless of how much Vit b12 or Folic acid was in it. A product could have 1mcg of Folic acid in it and still be classified as a medicine if I made therapeutic claim about it and wanted it classified as a medicine.

Maybe I've got some of my information incorrect? If it is only the Folic Acid that is a problem then a retailer/importer should be able to relabel the product and change the directions from 3 serves per day to 1 and then be legally allowed to sell it - but what about the B12?

[2guns]

flex are u wrong for once?

[Flex]

flex are u wrong for once?

Shit I could be. It has been known to happen once or twice before.

[2guns]

haha lol

[buffazn]

nah we dont have a pharmicist onsite and we have loads of stuff with 400-600mg folic acid

[buffazn]

its the b12 aswell. f*ck im sick of all these stupidass regulatory bullcrap. thomspons rep just busted us with the twinlabs b12 dots today. hmmm

[bj powerL]

Flex I have to say I agree with you on that one. I had some Superpump confiscated. EXPLANATION: B12 (not folic acid)

I heard about the SAN Fierce and got some from Sportsfuel in the Waikato.

That stuff rocks and you get more for your bucks.

There will always be another supp that springs up and I contacted san about some of their other prod and heard they are working with a company right here in GODZONE who will be their NZ distributor in a couple of months. They didn't say who but as a luvver of the SAN supps i'd like to know who it is. Anyone else know?

[Bluto]

.

[Flex]

Ive been using iSatori Morph, good pumps and endurance.

I work in a supplement store in Petone, Wellington, "The Protein Bar". We stock Muscletech "naNOx9","nanoVapour" and will be getting "Halo" soon.

Halo? Not likely - Have you looked at the ingredients list? It's so full of Yohimbine it's not funny. It's also got melatonin in it which they've tried to hide by using it's fancy name n-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine.

I can't see them making a version legal for NZ from Halo unless they take half the ingredients out.

Although you shouldn't be selling Nano Vapour or NanoX9 either as they also contain Yohimbine, Melatonin, and Xanthinol nicotinate - all prescription meds in NZ. Unless you're selling an international version maybe?

[fudoc5]

Ive been using iSatori Morph, good pumps and endurance.

I work in a supplement store in Petone, Wellington, "The Protein Bar". We stock Muscletech "naNOx9","nanoVapour" and will be getting "Halo" soon.

Bluto, what do you recon has worked the best? isatori morph, naNOx9, or nanoVapour?

[fudoc5]

Halo? Not likely - Have you looked at the ingredients list? It's so full of Yohimbine it's not funny. It's also got melatonin in it which they've tried to hide by using it's fancy name n-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine.

I can't see them making a version legal for NZ from Halo unless they take half the ingredients out.

Although you shouldn't be selling Nano Vapour or NanoX9 either as they also contain Yohimbine, Melatonin, and Xanthinol nicotinate - all prescription meds in NZ. Unless you're selling an international version maybe?

Flex, i just googled nano vapour and nanox9 in new zealand and found that quite a lot of shops are selling them,like punchsuppplements, supp online, etc... ... the one punchsupps sells have yohimbine in it( well thats what their web page says anyway)..do you think they are selling the real deal :pray: ?? or is it the nz version :doh:

[Luigi]

Halo? Not likely - Have you looked at the ingredients list? It's so full of Yohimbine it's not funny. It's also got melatonin in it which they've tried to hide by using it's fancy name n-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine.

I can't see them making a version legal for NZ from Halo unless they take half the ingredients out.

Although you shouldn't be selling Nano Vapour or NanoX9 either as they also contain Yohimbine, Melatonin, and Xanthinol nicotinate - all prescription meds in NZ. Unless you're selling an international version maybe?

Flex, i just googled nano vapour and nanox9 in new zealand and found that quite a lot of shops are selling them,like punchsuppplements, supp online, etc... ... the one punchsupps sells have yohimbine in it( well thats what their web page says anyway)..do you think they are selling the real deal :pray: ?? or is it the nz version :doh:

just gotta take your chances, got some hot rox off punch that had yohimbine in it not long ago so yea good luck.

[Flex]

Flex, i just googled nano vapour and nanox9 in new zealand and found that quite a lot of shops are selling them,like punchsuppplements, supp online, etc... ... the one punchsupps sells have yohimbine in it( well thats what their web page says anyway)..do you think they are selling the real deal :pray: ?? or is it the nz version :doh:

I can't see how there could be a very good NZ version of Nano X9 as it only has two "ingredient blends" in it - both of which are prescription only in NZ.

NaNOX9™ 3520mg †

L-Arginine*-Xanthinol Nicotinate †

L-Arginine-Ketoisocaproic Acid-Yohimbine HCL

There does seem to be another version available from some stores in Australia which contains the following

naNOX9™ ....................................................3520mg

L-arginine - niacin

L-arginine - ketoisocaproic acid-picamilon HCl

It's possible they are just using the name niacin for the xanthinol nicotinate in it so technically this could cause a problem if the product was tested by Medsafe.

They also seem to have replaced the Yohimbine HCL with Picamilon HCL.

Unfortunately Picamilon is a combination of two things - GABA (a Class B Drug in NZ) and Niacin - so it's not legal anyway. You may as well use the Yohimbine based version as the International version is probably just a bunch of arse (the US version probably is too). I'm not sure Punch really know what they're selling anyway. They've been advertising this on their site for the last few months - http://www.punchsupplements.co.nz/suppl ... -acid.html

They may as well be advertising GHB for sale since GABA and GHB have both been lumped together as having similar effects and are classed as Class B drugs.

You'll also find Picamilon in Muscletech Pumptech, so this is illegal in NZ too.

In saying that you'll find many of what might be semi decent muscletech products contain something that isn't technically legal in NZ. It's hard to know whether Punch Supps is selling the US or International versions - they seem to have the US ingredients panel listed though so it could be the proper stuff. If not you could buy it and report them to the Commerce Commission and sue their arses for false advertising. Either way they're in a trouble due to either false advertising or for retailing a prescription only med.

I thought Muscletech Aplodan might be illegal too given its price ($160-$200) and the strange ingredients that it contains:

APLODAN™ 1010mg †

2-(Carbamimidoyl-Methyl-Amino)ethoxyphosphonic Acid †

1,2-Dithiolane-3-Pentanoic Acid

Turns out though that 1,2-Dithiolane-3-Pentanoic Acid is the chemical name for Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA), so nothing too flash there.

And 2-(Carbamimidoyl-Methyl-Amino)ethoxyphosphonic Acid is a really long word for Creatinol O-phosphate - which is an ester derivative of creatine, which "may" offer similar muscular performance benefits to creatine.

[Bluto]

.

[SamWall]

if you are worried about what is in products i suggest you have a look at Reflex's Nos Fusion for your pre workout supp. they claim ISO numbers which mean products are independantly tested to match label claims.

[Hennie]

if you are worried about what is in products i suggest you have a look at Reflex's Nos Fusion for your pre workout supp. they claim ISO numbers which mean products are independantly tested to match label claims.

Or it can only mean it is an ISO certified production facility.

Anyway all these are being reformulated and labeled and NO-Xplode and SP250 will be available again towards end August in New Zealand or maybe a month or two later.........

If it will be like all international versions without a lot of kick I guess we will have to see.

[weener lad]

I thought the only problem with NO-Xplode was that it had trace amounts of Vincamine in it which is prescription only? If so I can't imagine a trace product will reduce the effects that much.

[Flex]

I thought the only problem with NO-Xplode was that it had trace amounts of Vincamine in it which is prescription only? If so I can't imagine a trace product will reduce the effects that much.

The B12 content is also too high so that will need to be reduced. If medsafe are bitchy about the Vincamine they should technically have issues with the Vinpocetine and Vinburnine which are also in no-xplode. Both of these are related to Vincamine and from the same family of plants. While they may only form a small part of the no-xplode formula they don't need to be used in very high doses to illicit an effect and I'd imagine they contribute quite a lot to the energy and focus that it provides.

[2guns]

Vinpocetine

8)

[SamWall]

if you are worried about what is in products i suggest you have a look at Reflex's Nos Fusion for your pre workout supp. they claim ISO numbers which mean products are independantly tested to match label claims.

Or it can only mean it is an ISO certified production facility.

Anyway all these are being reformulated and labeled and NO-Xplode and SP250 will be available again towards end August in New Zealand or maybe a month or two later.........

If it will be like all international versions without a lot of kick I guess we will have to see.

You are right and they are ISO 9001 which is manufacturing but also ISO 17025 which is testing and validation of a product (according to Wiki) It seems to have no B12 either? Do you know this product (NOS Fusion) I find it quite strong! Will it be banned aswell?

[Ben]

i used no xplode and i liked it but havent heard about nos fusion before. can anyone let me know more about it?

[bj powerL]

Ask Sam, perhaps he works for them

[SamWall]

Ask Sam, perhaps he works for them

Ha ha ha, Yeah I should try to get them to give me a cut. :pfft:

Ben, I found it on website called mysportnutrition.

[buffazn]

just got some gaspari plasmajet. will keep posted on how it goes. anyone else tried this product?