GHB & GBL (Gamma Hydroxy Butyrate)

[AgentOrange]

This stuff seems to be popular with the party set and it generally regarded as quite a evil drug(date rapes) and dangerous substance for intentional users.

Its seems to have been used in bodybuilding as a growth hormone stimulant and promoted as an excellent weight loss and muscle growth stimulant.

Has anyone tryed it for bodybuilding purposes or whatever purposes please share your experiences and doses!! Wouldent mind giving it a go if it can be done so safely and it actually works

[auck_builder]

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[AgentOrange]

1 2 - 0 2 - 2 0 0 6

Fantasy over for Mr NZ

11 February 2006

CHALPAT SONTI

Stuff.co.nz

[Fragment]

Justin Rys had it all. Money, fast cars, a plush pad and the best physique drugs could buy.

The former Mr New Zealand and Mr Oceania lived a luxury lifestyle and claimed to be the inspiration for the gorilla model in Peter Jackson's film King Kong.

But Rys – who was considered the Mr Big of the Wellington fantasy scene and the man who created the market for the drug – saw his life come crashing down on Wednesday when he became part of New Zealand's biggest conviction for importing the drug.

With an estimated value of up to $2.1 million, the drug was brought into New Zealand from eastern Europe in wine bottles and vegetable tins.

International courier firms were used to send the drug to Kapiti addresses selected at random and the packages were tracked on the Internet.

Rys and his co-offender Robert Stark intercepted the packages at the courier company. They switched their supply source from Romania to Moldova when they thought New Zealand Customs was on their trail. The vegetable tins were used briefly but leaked, and were discarded in favour of the wine bottles.

Fantasy [= GBL - red.] sells on New Zealand streets for about $25 a 5ml "hit" and is popular in both the nightclub – where it is considered the cheapest way to get a high – and bodybuilding scenes. It has also been implicated in drug-rape.

After Rys was arrested, supply dried up in Wellington till another group moved in to take his place.

Rys, 29, of Waikanae, pleaded guilty in the High Court at Wellington on Wednesday to 11 charges of importing the class B drug fantasy and one of money laundering, relating to more than $85,000 found in a friend's bank account.

The drug charges were representative of more than 100 incidents and related to 47.7 litres of fantasy imported between October 2003 and December 2004. It is believed Rys and associates imported at least 165 litres more before getting caught.

Customs seizures for all of last year netted just 20 litres and Rys' importation has been exceeded only by a recent seizure of more than 200 litres of the drug in Whangarei. It was not Rys' first drug-related conviction – he was convicted of importing growth hormones from China in May 2004 and was given a six-month suspended sentence. Seven months later, he was arrested in Taupo and charged with more than 100 counts of importing the drug. Stark pleaded guilty to 14 charges of importing fantasy shortly after and was sentenced to four years' jail. His partner, Arabella Tyler-Wright, pleaded guilty to helping Stark and was sentenced to 180 hours' community work.

A man who says his family has been wrecked by fantasy bought from Rys said he hoped the "scumbag" would "get everything he deserves".

The charges carry a maximum penalty of 14 years' jail. However, many associates believe Rys' health – already poor from years of drug abuse – will suffer even more in jail. Some doubt he can survive long.

Rys will be sentenced on March 3

Bit of media bullshit but GHB is addictive and is bad news

that didnt tell me much that i didnt already know. And he did allright in prison coz he is still massive.

[auck_builder]

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[AgentOrange]

thats the attitude! cmon man even bigkiwi himself recomends ppl stay away from ghb. he still massive but he gone through hell and back and lost so much from ghb addiction, just my opinion

ffs man im not saying its good or bad.. you dont seem to have anything to offer this thread so please dont contribute... I was hoping to hear from people who had first hand experience.

[auck_builder]

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[2guns]

just take a couple of mls and find out for yourself!! itll cost u like 12bucks! if yr sketched out just have a str8 person with u

[AgentOrange]

just take a couple of mls and find out for yourself!! itll cost u like 12bucks! if yr sketched out just have a str8 person with u

a straight person?? why would a gay person take advantage? better not ask you then :pfft:

[2guns]

lol yr a idiot, let us know how u find taking it ok

[AgentOrange]

lol yr a idiot, let us know how u find taking it ok

haha yeah will do bro.. i know the recreational dose but not sure on a BBing dose... Its not my intension to get fucked up but rather to increase mass.. So if anyone cn reccomend a safe BBing orientaited dose let me know

[auck_builder]

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[2guns]

personally i dont think, any body onn this site needs that... but be my labrat at yr own demise, just dnt f*ck yrself that bad that u cant write me a reveiw otherwise go for gold

[auck_builder]

Found this if you have the time to read through:

GHB and Bodybuilding

Direct Effects

Does GHB truly have a place in a bodybuilder's arsenal, or is the whole GH thing just an excuse to get twisted?? I believe it does have a place -- though, as I will show, many of its positive effects on body composition are more indirect than direct.

The first thing we should look at is its most commonly touted effect -- its stimulation of Growth Hormone release. It has, in fact, been found to raise growth hormone levels sharply in numerous studies (23, 30, 33). Some have claimed that these increases are only with intravenous administration or are the indirect result of GHB inducing sleep, as the onset of slow wave sleep is associated with increased GH levels. However, studies using oral delivery, have indeed shown increases in conscious subjects (23,30). With administration of 1.5 g of GHB, GH levels begin to rise almost immediately, reaching a peak of 3 times normal levels within 45 minutes, then rapidly falling back to within 25% of baseline by the 90 minute mark. Clearly, it does increase growth hormone.

Nonetheless, reports in both the literature and the real world on body composition, even with growth hormone injections, have been something less than spectacular. In the literature, GH has been shown to increase protein synthesis, however, it is not contractile protein (muscle) but rather visceral (organs) (34). Data on fat loss and muscle sparing with GH is a bit better. It has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown during dieting and fasting, leading to increased retention of muscle mass (35) . It is also known to be lipolytic (36). Real world reports of GH run along the same lines -- it not effective on its own for increasing muscle, but an increase it fat loss is definitely noticeable. But, again, this is with injections. Once a day use of GHB is not likely to mirror these effects. However, if someone would like to take 1.5 grams every 90 minutes for an extended period, please report back with your results.

At doses of 2.5 - 3.5 grams, GHB causes increased release of prolactin, doubling levels by the 45 minute mark, followed by a gradual return to baseline (33). Increases in prolactin have been shown to proportionally raise leptin levels, so this represents a possible positive effect on fat loss and muscle retention (37). Unfortunately, similar doses also raise cortisol levels, which has exactly the opposite effect of leptin on body composition (33). This antagonism might account for the lack of effects observed with GHB, and could perhaps be remedied with a drugs or supplement such as Cytadren or phosphatidylserine.

In addition to these, there are several other lesser known effects of GHB which have implications for bodybuilders. It increases gastric emptying (38), which is likely what causes the temporary increase in appetite observed with GHB use . Obviously, this is not particularly beneficial on a diet, though it might be on a mass phase. It also would likely make a good addition to a post-workout drink, as it would make glucose and amino acids available more quickly. Increased protein synthesis in brain and gastric tissues has been reported, whether this is accompanied by increased skeletal muscle synthesis is not known (39). Obese rats were found to have lower brain levels of GHB than their lean counterparts, despite identical diet, which suggests GHB as a potential signaler in the regulation of bodyweight (40) -- GHB metabolite GABA increases with fat feeding, which lends further support to this hypothesis. It has been shown to function as a powerful an antioxidant, blocking free-radical formation and lipid peroxidation (10). This could aid in recovery, as well as in overall health.

One of the more fascinating possibilities, comes from a study in rats (21) which showed a remarkable increase in body temperature after administration of very low doses. Following intraperitoneal injection of 5mg/kg, body temperature rose rapidly to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit above normal at 15 minutes, and reached a peak of almost 2.2 degrees at the hour mark. It was still elevated by 2 degrees at the 75 minute mark, and dropping only quite gradually -- in humans, this would be a profound thermogenic effect (Clenbuterol might raise body temperature by 1 degree).

Considering GHB has a half-life of 5 minutes after injection (41), it would seem that GHB was not directly mediating these effects, but rather caused the release of something with a longer half-life. I am going to go out on a limb a bit and propose that the mediator might be norepinephrine -- which has a peripheral half-life of several hours -- as long as 12 in some tissues (42 ).

As mentioned above, GHB does not seem to effect central norepinephrine levels, however it HAS been shown to effect peripheral levels -- with high doses causing profound depletion of heart and brown fat norepinephrine levels (10). And, perhaps not coincidentally, in contrast to the increase in body temperature with the low dose, these high doses consistently cause a DECREASE in body temperature (21, 43). As we have seen, GHB has been conclusively shown to exert a biphasic effect on dopamine, so the possibility certainly exists with this compound.

I want to make clear that the above is very speculative, both as to why it occurred and to its having any relevancy toward humans. First, it is only one study. Second, it used intraperitoneal injections rather than oral administration. Third, the mechanisms were not looked at. And fourth, rats have much higher levels of brown fat, thus the thermogenic effects of an increase in norepinephrine would be exaggerated compared to humans.

Nonetheless, it is certainly enticing enough to give a try, with a couple of adjustments that take into account the use of human subjects (I would not expect the pharmacokinetics of oral and i.p. administration to be significantly different with this low of doses). GHB is metabolized by rats much faster than humans, thus a lower dose would be recommended. I would estimate 1-2mg/kg at most -- meaning around 100-200 mg for a 200 lb person -- this is a tiny dose -- one which would produce no subjective psychological effects and, in fact, probably no increase in brain GHB levels (21).

Indirect Effects

Perhaps the most important applications of GHB for bodybuilders do not involve direct effects on hormones or hormone systems, anabolic or otherwise. The first is that GHB is a MAGNIFICENT sleep aid. As mentioned previously, at sufficient doses, it rapidly and predictably causes the onset of a sedation which has been characterized as identical to human sleep (17), but with a greater portion of the time spent in stage IV and R.E.M. sleep (44), which are the most beneficial for recovery. I trust I do not need to mention the importance of sleep for a bodybuilder. I trust I also do not need to mention the detrimental effect on sleep of certain common components of the bodybuilding arsenal such as EC and androgens. I will mention that GHB makes waking up in the middle of the night for a protein shake much more feasible. And, again, I trust that I do not have to mention the effects of a 6-10 hour fast on the anabolic/catabolic state of the body.

The other application for GHB is as an alcohol substitute. In addition to containing 105 calories per drink -- more if you are having beer, alcohol lowers testosterone (45) and has a tendency to cause less than optimal workouts the following day. As dedicated as we might be to improving our bodies, most of us do not want to be a slave to this pursuit when it comes to socializing/partying.

GHB is a life saver here. Its biochemical, electrophysiological, and and pharmacological effects are quite similar to alcohol (46, 47). And, in fact, it has been successfully used clinically in the treatment of alcohol dependency, where it is thought to work through a substitution mechanism -- meaning it mimics alcohol's actions on the central nervous system (46). Both activate the dopamine system -- a characteristic commonly shared by drugs of abuse, they exhibit cross-tolerance -- meaning frequent consumption of one causes tolerance to the other, and both are preferentially (vs. water) self-administered by rats (16).

Subjectively, the effects are not identical. Some prefer a GHB intoxication to alcohol, some the vice versa. I find GHB to be more sedating and slightly less uninhibiting than alcohol, but I know others for whom the opposite is true. Without question, one feels considerably better the next day with GHB vs. alcohol.

A combination of the two can allow a a shitfaced intoxication subjectively quite similar to that produced by alcohol, but with the consumption of only a few drinks, thus only a few hundred calories. It is typically strongly suggested that the two not be combined, with the argument that they have synergistic effects. However, based both on experience and the available scientific data, I tend to think the effects are mostly additive. Thus, I do not necessarily consider this activity contraindicated. The problem is that downing a "cap full" of GHB is like bonging a 6 pack, so for someone who is already quite intoxicated, this can put them over the edge.

Also, keep in mind that the metabolism of the two drugs are different -- GHB's in not saturable at typically utilized doses, thus it has a half-life (of probably 1 hr when taken orally), while alcohol's is quite saturable, thus only one drink is metabolized per hour -- meaning if one has 6g of GHB and 6 drinks at hour one (do not do this), at hour three, you would have only 1.5g of GHB in your system, but 4 drinks. As you can see, if one kept drinking, as the night went on, it would get a bit complicated, so if you do experiment with this combination, start with small amounts until you get a feel for it.

Safety

The overall safety of GHB is well-established in experimental and clinical use. Doses as high as 30 grams a day have been used in humans (48). And acute doses of as much as 1g/kg have been used in monkeys (10). Both without ill effects. It has no toxic effects on the liver, kidneys or other organs (48, 49). In narcolepsy studies, nightly use of 2.5 to 15 grams for several years resulted in no long-term adverse effects, nor did it result in addiction/dependence.

Side effects can include dizziness, nausea, and sometimes vomiting -- particularly on an empty stomach. It almost invariably causes drowsiness, so don't take it and then hop in the bathtub. Ataxia (loss of coordination) is more severe than with alcohol, so driving could be considered contraindicated.

[Flex]

but i heard u suposed to take it with some sort of liquid i.e alcohol or water ... so it dont eat away at your guts..

It depends on whether you're using GHB or GBL. GHB, Gamma hydroxybutyrate is a lot safer to get dosing right and easier on the stomach. This is the salt form of it and was the form that you used to be able to buy for human consumption OTC.

GBL, gamma butyrolactone is an industrial cleaner and very acidic. It is a precusor to GHB and is converted to GHB in the body. It can come in varying concentrations and as it is a precursor, GBL tends to be quite tricky to get dosing right with so what can be good one with one lot may be too much with another. Due to its pH it will rot your guts unless you dilute it down. It also tastes awful.

If you can only get GBL you can make your own GHB from GBL with the help of a kitchen appliance, some salt and one or two other things. But then you really are lining yourself up for trouble if you happen to get caught manufacturing a class b drug.

Personally the risks of overdose and abuse outweigh the supposed benefits and I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot barge pole.

[2guns]

If you can only get GBL you can make your own GHB from GBL with the help of a kitchen appliance, some salt and one or two other things.

... do we still have a recipes section on this new site?

[blairandkelly]

If you can only get GBL you can make your own GHB from GBL with the help of a kitchen appliance, some salt and one or two other things.

... do we still have a recipes section on this new site?

:pfft:

[dr-pain]

dr-pain occasionally sees the problems related to GHB in his day job. Specifically, too much GHB taken at once will throw one into a deep coma and has seen at least a few dozen people on mechanical ventilators until it cleared from their system.

It's one of those things that dr-pain would advise to use with caution (although I know nothing whether it works or not).

dr-pain

[2guns]

wats yr job dr pain?

nice 3rd person speech to