LA MUSCLE NORATEEN?

[jerume]

i have just purchased norateen heavyweight from la muscle,now apparently they are huge in europe for this product,it's advertised one bbc tv and it's europes no1 muscle builder,i have been told it is similar or would be better too use tribulus,i've never used a test booster before so dont know much about them,just wondering if n e ones tryed it before,i've been on it a week,and i'm doin it for a 8 week cycle with norateen heavyweight 2 and then norateen 2,heres the ingredients on both,n e feedback on these products would be much appreciated

NORATEEN HEAVYWEIGHT II NEW FORMULA

INGREDIENTS PER DAY

MUCUNA PRUREINS

600mgs

FENUGREEK

600mgs

DIINDOLYMETHANE

90mgs

BETA-ECDYSTERONE

90mgs

METHOXYISOFLAVONE

60mgs

VITAMIN E

60 IU

NORATEEN II

INGREDIENTS PER DAY

LEUCINE

600mgs

ACETYL-L-CARNITINE

480mgs

TAURINE

300mgs

L-ALANINE

180mgs

ALPHA LIPOIC ACID

150mgs

METHOXYISOFLAVONE

120mgs

BETA-ECDYSTERONE

90mgs

ZINC

30mgs

[frogie2001]

as far as a test booster goes beware of methoxy and tribulus. they offer the world but i have read an article from Mike Mentzer that says when methoxy breaks down in can release estrogen in men, but can have a desired effect more in women. I'm not sure if this is true but personally i have tried.

Andro stakers

methoxy

Tribulus

NOX

HMB, ZMA

and 1-test

at various stages and I guess that either i wasn't training, dieting or resting right becuase i got sweet bugger all out of them.

Don't let me put yours down though, as they might have got the proportions right in this one and you might be doing everything right. give it a go and tell us what results you got :nod:

[Growth]

From the ingredients its looks like its just another ecdysterone-methoxy job with a few added aminos, vitamins and minerals. Ive seen this product around since i first started bbing ages ago, all various brands. Never been temped to try them as ive heard from people that have that all you get out of them is a lighter wallet.

Also the prices on the other brands i have seen are ridiculously high, not sure what the price is of the norateen brand. For the price i have seen other brands for i would rather buy some more whey and double my protein intake, probabley be more effective IMO.

[jerume]

thanks for the help guys,ive got another 6 weeks on the stuff so i'll let ya know how it goes :roll:

[deegee]

This stuff is around $110 or so I think, I am sceptical of a lot of the products outside your basic whey efa's and multi vits, though I am always game to try a something if it gets a good review and is nbot too expensive unfortunatly some of these products do promise a lot and are as expensive as the stuff we do know does work but illegal.

let us know how you get on and what gains you get

[Flex]

I'm not sure why people seem to think methoxy or ecdysterone are used for boosting testosterone. The only thing in that product that may vaguely effect your T levels are Acetyl-l-carnitine and zinc - zinc if you are deficient may help optimise your natural testosterone production, and ALC may help increase T levels in rats, with various other effects in humans at doese of about 2-4g per day (5-8 times your daily dose).

Methoxy and ecdy have absolutely no effect on your hormones - hence no effect on increasing your T levels. They may help your body synthesise protein more effectively and the reason most people don't notice results using either of these products is that a) they don't train hard enough, and b) they don't eat enough protein. You need to almost double or triple your protein intake to get decent results with ecdy and methoxy but most people just keep plodding along at the standard 1 or 2 grams of protein per kilo when you should be aiming for around 3 to 4g/kilo each day of quality protein. Do that for 3 weeks, and then come back and let us know how you get on. By the way - methoxy and ecdy don't really help you gain big slabs of muscle - they should help you "harden" up and help with cutting and defining, and may help in fat reduction, but aren't going to give you the big mass and strength gains that you might expect of creatine.

This product looks like absolute rubbish in my opinion - the daily doses are lower than what would be recommended for a single serve for methoxy and ecdy so depending on your bodyweight you'd need to triple or quadruple the daily dose to get anywhere near what you need.

MUCUNA PRUREINS is used in ayurvedic medicine as an aphrodesiac and Fenugreek is used by breast feeding mothers as an "galactogogue" - basically to help boost milk supply. Now if I was using a Test booster I don't know whether I'd choose something that was going to help me lactate.

I love the write up about this product - this company should be in the hall of fame for snake oil supplement dealers:

"Norateen Heavyweight II from LA Muscle is a Testosterone booster to help you pack on more muscle mass mass quickly. The Manufacturers claim that Norateen Heavyweight II is "Undoubtedly the strongest muscle-builder available on the market today".

Norateen Heavyweight II contains Mucuna Prureins which are scientifically shown to increase Testosterone levels, Growth Hormone levels, deposit more protein in muscle tissue, increase strength and muscle mass. It also contains Fenugreek which is a powerful testosterone booster.

Beta Ecdysterone (BEC) in Norateen Heavyweight II has been scientifically shown to be stronger than the steroid Dianabol. New Norateen Heavyweight II contains even more BEC than before. Norateen Heavyweight II gives you DIINDOLYMETHANE (DIM), scientifically shown to be the best anti-estrogen in the world today. DIM has been shown to increase the level of free Testosterone in the blood. Heavyweight II also contains Hydroxyflavone (increases Testosterone by 30%) and Vitamin E (protective agent).

There is nothing like Heavyweight II. Nothing like it - guaranteed. This product has the ability to put up to 35-40 lbs of muscle on you in just a few weeks. Heavyweight II will not be around forever, so don't take too long in deciding to go for this unbelievable anabolic product.

"

I'm not sure what scientific studies showed ecdysterone to be stronger than Dianabol - scientifically stronger at what exactly - wasting your money? With write ups like this I would avoid using any of this brands products. Please, for your own good, don't believe the hype surronding sports supplements - nothing will help you gain 35-40 lbs of muscle in just a few weeks - nothing illegal and definately nothing legal. And not for $100 for a 30 day supply. The only reason it won't be around in a few weeks is because the company will have pulled the product due to users complaining.

I don't know how long you've been training for or what other products you've used, however i'm thinking this product probably wasn't your best choice. Go back to the drawing board - protein, creatine, regular and consistent hard training, decent recovery, quality food, no alcohol, training and food diary, 3 to 5 years of training like this should see you right, then you can start looking at T boosters and other such products.

I wouldn't bother finishing an eight week cycle of this stuff - put the unused bottle on your dressing table and use it as a flower vase.

[waldo]

Cripes Flex! Where the hell did you get all that from?

For $100 or however much was paid for the Norateen, you could get 40 odd dianabol anyways....

[Flex]

Cripes Flex! Where the hell did you get all that from?

Oh, I have my sources.....

[frogie2001]

WELL SAID FLEX, i read an article that said something about mthoxy actually raising estrogen levels in men! the reverse of what it stated. but in all honesty i have fallen into the trap of pruchasing all the latest fancy sups to try and get some accelerated growth. very little effect on everything but my wallet.

[Chickenlegs]

I have tried this stuff. Norateen Heavyweight II. I didnt put on 15kgs but I did gain 6 kgs of muscle and went from 15% body fat to 12% in 5 weeks

I am going to try Discorea Deltoidea my mate has used it and he thinks its the shit.

[hrdcor]

I personaly think ecy is a very good product and have used it sucessfully with many clients , but as Flex rightly pointed out it is a anabolic compound helping the nitrogen retentive state of the body, and this requires lots of protein, which flex has said is where most people go wrong with the product, I myself use ecy to maintain beter nitrogen retention , I take 800mgs of 5-metyl-7Methoxy-isoflavone,and 600mgs of 7-isopropoxyisoflavone and 40mg of Naringin 3x per day with a protein meal, the effects i notice is a better denser muscular crisper look and better recovery, but as Flex noted you would always be wise to first and foremost spend money on a good protein suplement, a good multi vit/min,zinc supplementation, and creatine and glutamine, those are the basics , any thing elese you take or would like to try should be on top of these basics and not instead off!!

Remember the basics are best, the wheel is still round last time I looked!!

[NIGHTHEAT]

Well said Flex

The ecdysterone studies they are referring to were conducted on various insects which have shown quite pronounced (steroidal) anabolism. This unfortunately does not translate to even remotely similar actions in humans, infact there isn't a single piece of clinical data supporting its anabolic action in humans at all! Its incredible how supplement companies get away with this kind of bullshit

[Chickenlegs]

I have been using Discorea Deltoidea for two weeks now and find my strength to be up and am 1kg heaver, sweet.

I'm not sure what scientific studies showed ecdysterone to be stronger than Dianabol - scientifically stronger at what exactly

This is what the guys on Body building .com had to say

"Ecdysterone Goes Head-to-Head with Dianabol and Wins!"

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ecdy.html

[Flex]

While bodybuilding.com may be a great place to buy products they are just as bad as some of the manufacturers at spinning shite. I'd be wary of putting too much trust into what they say.

As far as studies showing ecdy is stronger than Dbol here you go:

Looks like I found the study showing Ecdysterone IS stronger than Dianabol - in a study done on animals (mice?) looking at increases in physical endurance.

====================

Farmakol Toksikol. 1988 Nov-Dec;51(6):57-60. Related Articles, Links

[The action of methandrostenolone (dianabol) and ecdysterone on the physical endurance of animals and on protein metabolism in the skeletal muscles]

[Article in Russian]

Chermnykh NS, Shimanovskii NL, Shutko GV, Syrov VN.

The results of the comparative study on the myotropic activity of methandrostenolone and ecdysterone and their effects on physical endurance of animals suggested that ecdysterone possessing a wider spectrum of the anabolic action on the contractile proteins of the skeletal muscles exerts a more pronounced influence on physical endurance of animals without their preliminary training.

====================

According to another source the study was done on mice:

These compounds were given to two parallel experimental sets of mice for seven days - one untrained and the other subjected to training in the form of repeated swimming. Chermnykh found that both compounds caused anabolic increases of body mass only under the conditions of temporary training.

Unfortunately the full study is in russian and my 4th form russian is now a tad rusty. I haven't been able to find any more info about it.

So Ecdy is stronger than Dbol - if you're a rodent and wanting to improve your swimming performance. Don't you love how easy it is for greedy companies to con the public into believing rubbish like this by blatantly bending the facts for their own gain.

And it's doubly bad when the retailers go along for the ride selling and pushing products that they know don't stack up to all the hype. Sadly I can't see it changing - the consumers demand the latest and greatest magic potion and so do bring alot of it on themselves.

It's a double edged sword. The manufacturers, retailers and magazines spin rubbish ands hyperbole, which gives the punters hope that they may not have to spend hours training and exercising, and so they get lulled into believing all the ads, glossy images and magazine articles, forever stuck thinking that all they need is the latest pill or powder to help them finally acheive their ultimate physique.

To coin a famous black man who was years ahead of his time in the bling bling stakes "I pity the fool" that believes the hype.

Right - I think I'll get off my soapbox now......

[waldo]

Isn't Ecdysterone now on the banned list in Australia? Probably not far away for us too, and may have the effect of saving people money, not inhibiting their goals! I found this on Anabolex.com in the Aussie forum.

b-Ecdysterone has been added to TGA Ap A

------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.tga.gov.au/docs/html/bringmed/apendixa.htm

20 hydroxyecdysterone (BES) is now a prohibited import.

Warning to those who import.

[Flex]

Aussie is f****d as far as supplements go - sadly NZ is following their lead. I think Ecdy has been banned for while in Oz. This is coming from a country that banned HMB for a while aswell. At least it's not as bad as France where Vitamin C is banned for OTC sale and classified as a medicine, and creatine is also banned for whatever reason.

[hrdcor]

Flex is right , we better watch out because NZ is trying to follow Aussies lead in the banning of all these types of products, Aussie are way behind the 8ball in the supplement stakes as there laws are so restrictive and jurrasic, if you dont want this to happen here let your local MP Know ASAP, Im serious things like Creatine may just need a Doctors script if you dont act!!

[Chickenlegs]

Aren't all supplements and drugs tested on animals first and if they work on them we are then introduced to the product. I can't see your point when you say "These are from results tested on animals" Wasnt deca dbol ect first tested on animals. Dose that mean they didn't work on humans then?

[Flex]

The sports nutrition industry has been guilty of massaging the truth most likely since its inception - it's certainly been dodgy since I've been involved. There are only a handful of supplements that have been proven to be effective in reputable human studies (HMB and creatine being among them), while the rest have only been tested on animals/insects, or in the few human studies performed the testing groups or methods used weren't adequate to give a reputable, independant result.

LA Muscle certainly aren't alone in this practice so it would be unjustified to single them out, However they are blatantly misrepresenting information for their own gain. If they had stated in the advertising, "ecdy has been proven to be stronger than dianabol in untrained mice in swimming tests", do you think that would urge consumers to go out and buy the product?

It certainly wouldn't make me pay $130 for a months supply. I'm not saying ecdy doesn't work in humans, and that all the other products that haven't been tested on humans don't work. It's just that the marketing of most products, and in particular LA muscle products, is a load of bull.

[boostinggtir]

Does test booster from gasprari nutation fall under the same umbrella?

[gazza]

Does test booster from gasprari nutation fall under the same umbrella?

which product? i'm using novadex xt from those guys and coupled with a reasonble eating regime and protein shakes i've gained 4kg in a month.

i'm sure nicksmith referred to norateen in a thread somewhere. think he said he tried it??? his posts seem to be pretty informative

[boostinggtir]

yea that's the one, sounds like a good product. Does this product effect dht?

[gazza]

yea that's the one, sounds like a good product. Does this product effect dht?

to be honest i didn't look into it that indepth, personally i haven't noticed any issue with this. but i do shave my hair with a number 1 comb. i have recently found it on the band list by the natural bodybuilding federations, but so are most of the isatori range of products and a few other mainstream supps, the owner of the gym i train at reckons all gaspari and isatori wiil end up on the list in due course as he reckons they are so effective,not sure where he gets his info from though, usually a very imformative bloke though.

so you have this now? have you started using it yet? i'm doing a 2 month cycle of it, going to add in something else soon not sure what though. maybe pvl leucibolic and bit more glutamine/protein.

[boostinggtir]

Yea I'm looking test getting a test booster. I used animal test pak in the past, for about six months. Had good gains with that product, but most of time I used, I was cutting. 1 or two the the pills in the pak where dht blockers. Though it was still a little hard on my hairline, an probably wont use again for this reason. I'm only 23. :pfft:

I'm going to ride the post cut gains for a little, I'll get a test booster in 3 or 4 months time.

[gazza]

sounds good boosting, i've got just over 10 years on you :doh: going by results so far though i would definately recommend the novadex.