Personal Trainers

[deegee]

Bleeding people is how most trainers make most of thier money.

A training partner is better than a trainer and a whole lot more cheaper!

I am not exactly poor, but soon would be if I used a trainer and at the prices I have seen around here.

[waldo]

Guys, to hand out advice on training (ie Personal Trainers/Fitness Instructors) generally speaking you must be qualified to do so. The same should go for dietary advice. If you are going to tell someone what to eat, you should hold the relevant qualifications.

As a PT myself, it really gives me the shits watching some trainers create meal plans etc, without a shred of credibility to do so. Stick to what you know. Lawyers have law degrees, PTs have certificates, Nutritionists/Dieticians have degrees.

[deegee]

I dont see anything wrong with PTs helping out with meal plans , especially for the begginer who just needs to get basic nutrician right. As long as they are not charging for it and also tell you they are not nutricionists or recommend one.

after all a few of us hear give advice on meal plans etc. I for one am not educationaly qualified to do so, though I do believe I know what I am talking about through experience, I also make this clear.

What are the going rates per hour now for a PT where you work Waldo?

[tafrost]

Having been in the industry for the last 15 years, I can claim that I have seen some real shockers.......ie those that do a weekend course to become a trainer (what a laugh!) But some of the comments are a bit harsh, you can't generalise when making judgement - just sift the good from the not so good - and definitely frogie go on past experience on those who have done their time!!!! :nod:

[Cornfed]

Guys, to hand out advice on training (ie Personal Trainers/Fitness Instructors) generally speaking you must be qualified to do so. The same should go for dietary advice. If you are going to tell someone what to eat, you should hold the relevant qualifications.

As a PT myself, it really gives me the shits watching some trainers create meal plans etc, without a shred of credibility to do so. Stick to what you know. Lawyers have law degrees, PTs have certificates, Nutritionists/Dieticians have degrees.

Could you expand on why you believe these particular vocations require specific degrees, what advantages you think a degree would confer, and why you belive the degree courses on offer are any good?

(Just to put the degree issue in perspective, as I understand it the last head of the Computer Science Department at Oxford University had a BA in Russian as his only formal academic qualification. Now you need a specific degree just to recommend workout routines and diets. Times have certainly changed, and not for the better in my opinion.)

[waldo]

Guys, to hand out advice on training (ie Personal Trainers/Fitness Instructors) generally speaking you must be qualified to do so. The same should go for dietary advice. If you are going to tell someone what to eat, you should hold the relevant qualifications.

As a PT myself, it really gives me the shits watching some trainers create meal plans etc, without a shred of credibility to do so. Stick to what you know. Lawyers have law degrees, PTs have certificates, Nutritionists/Dieticians have degrees.

Could you expand on why you believe these particular vocations require specific degrees, what advantages you think a degree would confer, and why you belive the degree courses on offer are any good?

(Just to put the degree issue in perspective, as I understand it the last head of the Computer Science Department at Oxford University had a BA in Russian as his only formal academic qualification. Now you need a specific degree just to recommend workout routines and diets. Times have certainly changed, and not for the better in my opinion.)

Are you serious? For a start, lets move away from Bodybuilding here, because as a PT I deal with clients who want to get fit, lose weight, rehab injuries, as well as build lean muscle etc. When someone presents to you who is 4 months pregnant, has high blood pressure, wants to increase her core strength and keep a certain level of fitness to help her thru her pregnancy what do you do? Oh, and she takes some medication (beta blockers) for the blood pressure. Do you even know how to use a Sphygnomamometer?

If you were to prescribe a meal plan to a woman who wants to loose weight but has an over-active Thyroid gland what would you do?

Having lifted weights for years, I can prescribe only what I knew. Having gained a qualification, I was taught how to look out for certain contra-indications, and how to prescribe safe exercise that won't cause any ill-effects to the client.

I have a client who has recently had a battle with Prostate Cancer, as well as a pro-lapsed disc between L3 and L4. My directive from his Doctor and Physio was to have him loose 15kg of fat and to increase his core strength so he recovered more quickly from the rather invasive prostate surgery and didn't have a recurrence of the prolapsed disc. With my help he achieved the goals. I'd be interested Cornfed, what would you prescribe for him?

These are some reasons why PTs should all be qualified. The idiots that prescribe 'pie eating' amongst other things give educated workers like myself, and Tammy and many others bad names. I hope you find these reasons to your liking Cornfed.

[waldo]

Oh, and If you need to be walked thru why a Doctor or a Lawyer or an Accountant or a Macro Biologist needs a degree then you really need some help on this subject.

[ExpensiveUrine]

Sphygnomamometer

Oh that's just kinky. :jive:

[Pseudonym]

A Google search gives 8 results for "Sphygnomamometer". I'm looking forward to seeing where this page ranks once it gets indexed! :pfft:

[Cornfed]

A Google search gives 8 results for "Sphygnomamometer".

That's because it's misspelled. Try "sphygmomanometer".

[Cornfed]

I hope you find these reasons to your liking Cornfed.

What reasons? You haven't provided any evidence that PTs need specific certification or that the certification courses are any good, or addressed any of the specific points that I and others have made above or refuted any of the anecdotal evidence that most so-called qualified PTs suck.

These are some reasons why PTs should all be qualified. The idiots that prescribe 'pie eating' amongst other things give educated workers like myself, and Tammy and many others bad names.

But most likely the idiot was qualified and educated and therefore incompetent for the reasons given in previous posts.

I have a client who has recently had a battle with Prostate Cancer, as well as a pro-lapsed disc between L3 and L4. My directive from his Doctor and Physio was to have him loose 15kg of fat and to increase his core strength so he recovered more quickly from the rather invasive prostate surgery and didn't have a recurrence of the prolapsed disc. With my help he achieved the goals. I'd be interested Cornfed, what would you prescribe for him?

Impossible to say without meeting the person. Off the top of my head, if fat loss and core strength were desired I would probably put him on a raw food or natural hygene diet and test him with very light weights on various whole body compound exercises (squat, dl, sldl, power clean etc.) before cautiously proceeding with a couple of those that didn't seem to aggravate his injuries along with other appropriate exercises.

In general, if clients wanted all-round health advice and had specific medical problems I would research their conditions using the Internet and other sources of information and make my recommendations accordingly. If dealing with them was likely to be completely outside my area of interest or expertise I would simply refer them to someone else.

Oh, and If you need to be walked thru why a Doctor or a Lawyer or [..] needs a degree then you really need some help on this subject.

The quack medical system and shyster just-us system are classic examples of the potentially disastrous consequences of highly regulated and protected enterprises. Both of these rackets are enormously damaging and immensely expensive. If other businesses operated in a similar manner the practitioners would go broke and possibly be lynched in the street. As it is these hideous parasites get to play the rest of us for chumps year after year because of the regime's protection and patronage and the public perception that they belong to some sort of all-knowing priestly class which has people's best interests at heart, whereas most of them are venal and corrupt sleazebags who see their clients/victims as a source of easy money. Unfortunately this seems to be the way the PT business is going.

Of course some jobs such as surgeon, bulldozer driver etc. would require specific practical instruction prior to actually doing the job, but I wouldn't have thought PT was one of them, and in any case this is a far cry from the years of training many PTs are now expected to have. I realize that if you have spent a lot of time and money getting yourself accredited for what used to be a school leavers' position then you are not going to like the idea that doing so was unnecessary and other people shouldn't have to, but you should realize the idea that one needs to be certified to do anything is a very recent and freakish cultural aberration. In particular, degree courses were traditionally seen as being for honing the minds of a tiny intellectual elite rather than as mass vocational training.

[Flex]

Seems some people don't like PT's.

Personally I tend to write my own programs or follow programs written by strength coaches that I find on the net, or in books etc.

If someones qualified I'm more likely to follow their program, advice, ideas, theories, etc than someone who isn't - personal preferance I suppose.

I'd wager most of the programs that are home baked by nzbb users use theories devised by qualified trainers and then tweaked a bit to suit personal preferances. I certainly wouldn't put much value in what a school leaver would tell me as I couldn't imagine the school leaver would have much experience so can't see how PT'ing could ever have been considered a school leavers position. I'd imagine if it was ever a school leavers position that the industry has now evolved to require qualifications due to school leavers not having the required knowledge.

If it is so easy to recommend a diet and training program as Cornfed alludes to, why are there so many badly devised programs and diets? - why do so many people end up fed up with training due to lack of results?

Generally the reason people get a degree, whilst for recognition amoungst society, the main reason is to learn from the experts in that field. Now these experts may not necessarily have degrees themself, as in Cornfed's computer science lecturer, however they have experience and worldly knowledge. They can teach in one lecture what may have taken 6 months or more through trial and error for them to learn. Generally the only way to access this knowledge is through learning institutions, which to help acknowledge such learning, a degree or diploma i.e. qualification is awarded.

True, there are some qualifications that aren't all that flash and can be earned with minimal learning. However the recipient of such qualifications won't last long in an industry where results speak for themselves. If a PT doesn't get the results, then they won't last long unless they pick up their game, and that is generally through extra learning.

[ree]

I think that p.ts need to listen to what their clients want to achieve. They need to ask more questions to give them the ammo they need to design programs. I have worked in gyms for years and in my city was the only trainer who changed my clients programs every 6 weeks, the staff I worked with only showed an interest if their clients were goodlooking.

I lost alot of weight through training and built up a serious passion for the sport. I believe in it, and I think that goes along way, probably further than my qualifications.

[Pseudonym]

I lost alot of weight through training and built up a serious passion for the sport. I believe in it, and I think that goes along way, probably further than my qualifications.

I think you've put your finger on it there, Ree... The important thing is the enthusiasm the trainer has. I'm not talking just about making encouraging noises while the client is training - that's good, but it needs to go further. If a trainer is really enthusiastic (or passionate) about the sport, they'll willingly try to extend their knowledge.

The more knowledge they have, the more resources they can draw on to help a client. Yes, they could run off and look up a problem, but that only answers one specific question. If their knowledge is wider to start with, they may be aware of a completely new dimension to explore.

Certainly that knowledge can be gained without a qualification, but the certificate reassures me that this trainer should have the breadth of knowledge I want. Unfortunately, as we've seen, it isn't the guarantee it should be... but I think that's just a sign the system needs tweaking, not throwing out altogether.

Until the perfect system is developed, there is one good way of measuring a PT...

Trainers who are active members of a forum like this demonstrate their enthusiasm for the sport goes beyond just the job and are continually exposed to new ideas and feedback, giving them the knowledge with which to provide a better service to the client.

[deegee]

out of intrest , are you a personal trainer pseudo?

[Pseudonym]

Nope. I've been tempted, but I love my bodybuilding, and I'd hate to risk overdosing on it and lose the fun.

[ree]

Boy you sure can o.d on it if you are bodybuilding and personal training competitors.

I have done it for the last 8 years. This year I told myself to take a complete year away from it as it wasnt fun anylonger. It has been 6 months and I have just started training again this week.

It was hard to turn people away who wanted to compete but I couldnt give them what they deserved.

If you are training people, especiallybodybuilders, you need to be as energetic, focused and positive as you can. Every session counts.

[brock_solid]

Well i haven't really read this thread......but i wouldn't listen to a personal trainer giving me a programme ever, since i have narcissistic personality disorder (i think?) means i can't and won't, i would listen to them showing me an exercise then if i found it to be any good then i'd follow through with that, but thats all.

[tallulahangie]

Speaking of personal trainers... I would not take advice from a PT who is fat and looked as if they needed some work themselves! I believe that it is professional for those in the fitness industry (including receptionists in gyms) to display some level of fitness and health. I'm not saying those in the fitness industry should have perfect toned bodies (because this would not be possible) but they should definitely practice what they preach!

Here's an interesting scenario my training partner and I observed a few weeks ago at our gym:- Female PT (mid to late 30s) with a HUGE ass and rotund waistline was training a female client in the ladies gym. 1) Client did not have correct hand grip on free weights. 2) Trainer just paced around bench flicking her long curly dark blonde hair. 3) Whilst performing action 2) PT asked client about her diet. When client told her the huge period of time between breakfast and lunch the PT says in a flat, monotoned, bored voice "oh you need to eat a protein bar in between meals". PT does not go into further detail about food and its importance in growing and maintaining muscle.

My training partner and I were shocked at this low level of service. The female client had paid good money to be trained by a fat woman who did not know what she was doing and appeared not to care! We wanted to go and correct the trainer but obviously it is not our place to do so! The crap thing is that the female PT is the only female PT available to Club Physical members at New Lynn.

[brock_solid]

Yeah i know what you mean, if i see a personal trainer that has no muscle at all, then i would tell them to f off, when i first signed up i never paid for a personal trainer i just asked my uncle who used to build in his earlier days to give me a few tips on how to use machines and i generally worked out fine and copied off a few people and did pretty well.

Then i see my mates, who paid for a trainer, they got given a programme full of 10 years old reps sets and weights, like one day will consist of 1 exercise for biceps = 3 x 8 of 6kgs.....chest = 1 x 5 of 25kgs......i just laughed at it, i mean seriously they dont even know how to make a programme, these people anyway, i would only listen to some huge guy with vains bulging out of his forehead.

[jono]

Yeah i know what you mean, if i see a personal trainer that has no muscle at all, then i would tell them to f off, when i first signed up i never paid for a personal trainer i just asked my uncle who used to build in his earlier days to give me a few tips on how to use machines and i generally worked out fine and copied off a few people and did pretty well.

Then i see my mates, who paid for a trainer, they got given a programme full of 10 years old reps sets and weights, like one day will consist of 1 exercise for biceps = 3 x 8 of 6kgs.....chest = 1 x 5 of 25kgs......i just laughed at it, i mean seriously they dont even know how to make a programme, these people anyway, i would only listen to some huge guy with vains bulging out of his forehead.

really .. thats a pretty ignorant way to think. the biggest guy mite be the biggest guy DISPITE of his lack of knowledge. eg genetics

[hrdcor]

If you dont practise what you preach , then do not expect to be listened to or taking seriously, that is why religon has its problems .

PERSONAL EXPERIANCE IS THE BASES OF ALL INFLUENTUIAL ADVISE

[ExpensiveUrine]

Yeah i know what you mean, if i see a personal trainer that has no muscle at all, then i would tell them to f off, when i first signed up i never paid for a personal trainer i just asked my uncle who used to build in his earlier days to give me a few tips on how to use machines and i generally worked out fine and copied off a few people and did pretty well.

Then i see my mates, who paid for a trainer, they got given a programme full of 10 years old reps sets and weights, like one day will consist of 1 exercise for biceps = 3 x 8 of 6kgs.....chest = 1 x 5 of 25kgs......i just laughed at it, i mean seriously they dont even know how to make a programme, these people anyway, i would only listen to some huge guy with vains bulging out of his forehead.

really .. thats a pretty ignorant way to think. the biggest guy mite be the biggest guy DISPITE of his lack of knowledge. eg genetics

That's pretty much the problem I have with the above comments. People often relate to the size of the guy than to the size of knowledge in his head. He might have different goals than you, but is that a valid reason to disregard him completely in terms of knowledge? Doubt it. He could be a powerlifter, in which case his body composition would differ from that of a bodybuilder. Likewise, he could also be a cyclist, a thrower, a sprinter, ect. in which case they could give the slightest shit about becoming a bodybuilder. Not everyone wants to have big muscles or become a bodybuilder for the sake of recognition by the 'average Joe'. Body composition doesn't dictate knowledge of a person or a personal trainer for that matter. Knowledge dictates knowledge. So look at the reasoning/knowledge behind your Personal Trainer's actions before jumping to conclusions and saying 'Oh he's a fatass, he must be dumb'.

[deegee]

I have seen personal trainers who are overweight and out of shape it is not really inspiring, and personaly I would prefer a trainer to be in shape or have been there and have some personal knowledge on bbding

[jono]

I have seen personal trainers who are overweight and out of shape it is not really inspiring, and personaly I would prefer a trainer to be in shape or have been there and have some personal knowledge on bbding

i agree that pts should be in shape, but my main point was the biggest guy may not be the most knowledgeable (sp?)