PPL v BroSplit

[Pseudonym]

 

12 hours ago, donz said:

Hrmmm well "bicep curl" can be the same exercise for a bodybuilder as a power lifter

 

However you do your bicep curls, I'm just interested to learn that powerlifters actually do them at all. When I mentioned exercise selection, this was exactly the sort of isolation work I thought would be omitted. So that's my theory torn to shreds.  

 

(Incidentally, the Aussie presenting the first video you linked has such a strong accent, I genuinely thought he was talking about "oscillating" the biceps for a moment...)

[Realtalk]

It's an outdated belief that all powerlifters do is compound lifts. There is a new trend called powerbuilding, which isn't actually new at all it's a really old concept but it is basically a mixture of the general powerlift movements and high intensity bodybuilding style training. The guys winning powerlifting comps for the most part these days look like off-season amateur bodybuilders which is from training like them. Stuff like bicep curls and other exercises have their importance for example the biceps play a really important role in the bench press so having strong developed biceps are worth their weight for sure and it isn't just a waste of time.

[maccaz]

refer @BeastBuilder og journal pseudonym. maniac did 1000s of reps of biceps and triceps while training for powerlifting. 

 

ive learnt lately that growing muscle is as important as getting stronger with the lower volume stuff, so am being sure to smash a lot of arms, upper back, shoulders, as well as the usual compounds in my PL programming

[Realtalk]

Also note it's cool to do all that extra stuff but if you're not recovering from. It then it's just counter productive 

[donz]

When I got my first real program I was quite suprised by all the accessory work on it I thought it'd be dead lifts then go home and eat pie... from what I understand Pseu,  bicep curls are related to grip strength / dead lifting - the most common injury I've seen from dead lifting is the under grip arm getting a bicep tear... looks pretty yuck and painful unsure on exact mechanics but yeah can't complain doing curls a few times a week lmao 

 

There are blocks in off-season on my programs with titles like "technique" "hypertrophy" "strength" etc so definitely falls into powerbuilding as Tom mentioned which is pretty popular to be thrown round on instagram nowdays as if it's brand new and trending~ 

 

I only train 4 times a week due to being old and unfit so my recovery would suck without the 3 rest days 

 

[maccaz]

21 minutes ago, donz said:

When I got my first real program I was quite suprised by all the accessory work on it I thought it'd be dead lifts then go home and eat pie... from what I understand Pseu,  bicep curls are related to grip strength / dead lifting - the most common injury I've seen from dead lifting is the under grip arm getting a bicep tear... looks pretty yuck and painful unsure on exact mechanics but yeah can't complain doing curls a few times a week lmao 

 

There are blocks in off-season on my programs with titles like "technique" "hypertrophy" "strength" etc so definitely falls into powerbuilding as Tom mentioned which is pretty popular to be thrown round on instagram nowdays as if it's brand new and trending~ 

 

I only train 4 times a week due to being old and unfit so my recovery would suck without the 3 rest days 

 

the accessory work in program you (and me) are doing is very very low volume compared to what most would consider power building. do you do more than prescribed on any of it or follow it to a T? 

 

[donz]

1 minute ago, maccaz said:

the accessory work in program you (and me) are doing is very very low volume compared to what most would consider power building. do you do more than prescribed on any of it or follow it to a T? 

 

Oh true - yeah so the main lift volume is insane but then the other stuff is 4 sets of 12, 3 sets of 15, 3 sets of 10 etc - the only high volume one was that killer leg press for 20-40 reps.. I don't ever do extra accessories.. I'm crap at life and miss lots of them. Volume for start of this was nuts - 9000kg worth of dead lifts at 180kg etc then work out 1 heavy prep session you might lift 2500kg all up... 

[maccaz]

40 minutes ago, donz said:

Oh true - yeah so the main lift volume is insane but then the other stuff is 4 sets of 12, 3 sets of 15, 3 sets of 10 etc - the only high volume one was that killer leg press for 20-40 reps.. I don't ever do extra accessories.. I'm crap at life and miss lots of them. Volume for start of this was nuts - 9000kg worth of dead lifts at 180kg etc then work out 1 heavy prep session you might lift 2500kg all up... 

 

ah yeah sweet. yeh the main lift volume is ridiculous but seems to be paying off, makes me feel like the heavy days will be a breeze just cos less overall work

 

[hamdanz]

Having the first lurk here in awhile.

 

firstly, from this post - "I've heard the PPL is best for nattys etc." you'd assume  op is a natty.  And a few of the responses notion that.  But I clicked on op's profile, and he's commenting on a bunch of clen threads, and asking if you have to go off cycle.  So op clearly isn't natty.

 

Anyway, I have been training around 10 years, first 5 a little on/off, last 5 or 6 pretty seriously.  I used to be on the bro split.  I'm natty besides creatine and pre workout.

 

About 3 years ago I changed to push pull legs.  I do it twice a week with one rest day.   High volume too.  Will start with 5x5, then a couple of 4x6 for the main compounds - e.g bench press, overhead press, weighted dips - and then go into the higher volume bb style stuff after that.  Each session would be 1.5-2.5 hours. Sometimes 3-4 hours for legs on a Saturday.

 

I have had no issues with the volume/overtraining whatsoever.  I'm 31.  I probably deload every couple of months or so when I feel a little run down.  Strength on everything increased quicker than the bro split previously, and I doubt I'll ever go back.  I find it more challenging too, and if you're challenging your body more, you'll get better results, right?  

 

It's probably not for everyone though.  I don't get doms regardless of how hard I train, and never have.  Have never understood all the legs day memes, because I've never felt sore the next day.  Some people get really bad doms, and need more rest days, mostly because they're old like Don I think.

 

Give it a go, and see how you feel in a couple of months.  No harm in that.

[donz]

10 hours ago, hamdanz said:

Having the first lurk here in awhile.

 

firstly, from this post - "I've heard the PPL is best for nattys etc." you'd assume  op is a natty.  And a few of the responses notion that.  But I clicked on op's profile, and he's commenting on a bunch of clen threads, and asking if you have to go off cycle.  So op clearly isn't natty.

 

Anyway, I have been training around 10 years, first 5 a little on/off, last 5 or 6 pretty seriously.  I used to be on the bro split.  I'm natty besides creatine and pre workout.

 

About 3 years ago I changed to push pull legs.  I do it twice a week with one rest day.   High volume too.  Will start with 5x5, then a couple of 4x6 for the main compounds - e.g bench press, overhead press, weighted dips - and then go into the higher volume bb style stuff after that.  Each session would be 1.5-2.5 hours. Sometimes 3-4 hours for legs on a Saturday.

 

I have had no issues with the volume/overtraining whatsoever.  I'm 31.  I probably deload every couple of months or so when I feel a little run down.  Strength on everything increased quicker than the bro split previously, and I doubt I'll ever go back.  I find it more challenging too, and if you're challenging your body more, you'll get better results, right?  

 

It's probably not for everyone though.  I don't get doms regardless of how hard I train, and never have.  Have never understood all the legs day memes, because I've never felt sore the next day.  Some people get really bad doms, and need more rest days, mostly because they're old like Don I think.

 

Give it a go, and see how you feel in a couple of months.  No harm in that.

It was actually OP who posted "I've heard PPL is the best for nattys" you also realise that clenbuterol isn't an AAS, right? He's talking about clen in regards to losing weight/fat and not jabbing 3ml of tren. Your statement of "OP clearly isn't natty" seems quite presumptious. Just saying.

[jimmybro1]

7 minutes ago, donz said:

It was actually OP who posted "I've heard PPL is the best for nattys" you also realise that clenbuterol isn't an AAS, right? He's talking about clen in regards to losing weight/fat and not jabbing 3ml of tren. Your statement of "OP clearly isn't natty" seems quite presumptious. Just saying.

Clenbuterol isn't natural... It is still a synthetic hormone. Just because it isn't androgenic doesn't make you natural. 

 

Its a controlled substance and banned from drug tested sports.. Also it is performance enhancing. 

 

[Realtalk]

Hi mate, and thanks for posting. But why train legs for 3-4 hours when you could get the same result in 60-90 minutes by making the session more intense. Any reason other than because you just enjoy being in the gym? You can do as much volume as you like but if the intensity is low then there will be no doms unless you are brand new to training. I think it probably has more to do with intensity and the program you're following than age itself. Especially if you are changing the method every while from a high intensity block to a really high volume block, your body won't always adapt to it right away so having doms regularly can be more common depending on many things other than just cause someone's an old c*nt lol

 

[donz]

13 minutes ago, jimmybro1 said:

Clenbuterol isn't natural... It is still a synthetic hormone. Just because it isn't androgenic doesn't make you natural. 

 

Its a controlled substance and banned from drug tested sports.. Also it is performance enhancing. 

 

Really? Thanks James I had no idea it was banned. Your knowledge as always is IPF approved. When one is talking about "natty" and anabolic steroids, clenbuterol isn't usually one that jumps off your screen now is it? I understand you're bored but really m8 jotting down some facts about clen doesn't change the fact for this purpose OP is still what most normal people would class as natural. I do thank you once again for your pricless knowledge.

[jimmybro1]

26 minutes ago, donz said:

Really? Thanks James I had no idea it was banned. Your knowledge as always is IPF approved. When one is talking about "natty" and anabolic steroids, clenbuterol isn't usually one that jumps off your screen now is it? I understand you're bored but really m8 jotting down some facts about clen doesn't change the fact for this purpose OP is still what most normal people would class as natural. I do thank you once again for your pricless knowledge.

No worries Don.

 

I honestly thought you would be wiser in your old age.

[donz]

Still a rookie in the

1 minute ago, jimmybro1 said:

No worries Don.

 

I honestly thought you would be wiser in your old age.

I'm still a rookie in the gym, James. It's pedantic posts like yours that will, however school me up to that level I need to be. 40 in April, running out of time!

[hamdanz]

4 hours ago, Realtalk said:

Hi mate, and thanks for posting. But why train legs for 3-4 hours when you could get the same result in 60-90 minutes by making the session more intense. Any reason other than because you just enjoy being in the gym? You can do as much volume as you like but if the intensity is low then there will be no doms unless you are brand new to training. I think it probably has more to do with intensity and the program you're following than age itself. Especially if you are changing the method every while from a high intensity block to a really high volume block, your body won't always adapt to it right away so having doms regularly can be more common depending on many things other than just cause someone's an old c*nt lol

 

 

The 'old' comment was more a friendly jab at Don than anything else.

 

I guess my intensity could be higher, but it's mostly because the first hour - 1.5 hours is spent at the squat rack, doing 5x5, and then 4x6 of deads and squats, or squats then deads.  I take about 5 mins rest in between sets.  Building strength is my major focus.  

 

After that, intensity goes up for the accessories.  A bit of time also spent on mobility etc as I have had issues with tight hip flexors due to previously never stretching or giving a f*ck.  I have genetically small legs, so I really try and hit the volume.  After squats/deads, I'll try and do 2-3 isolation exercises for glutes, hamstrings and quads, with the odd calf raise and abductor exercise chucked in there.

 

So it all adds up.

 

I'm not following a plan as such, just made my own based on what I've learnt over the years.  I take a lot from Omar Isuf Youtube channel - has some great guests like Mark Bell, Silent Mike etc.  Basically a strength focus, but trying to include hypertrophy.

[Realtalk]

Just want to say that a 5-7 day bodypart split (or bro split) and a push pull type program are completlet different approaches. On a 5 day split you are more likley to train the muscle with more isolation as that's the whole point of the program to train one muscle on one day so you are preserving the other muscle groups for their own days. On a push pull day you are likley training movements than muscles. So when people say they got stronger on a push pull program, well of course you did. Stronger at lifts you're doing more often. Just because it makes you stronger doesn't mean it's a superior way of training. Just my opinion.

[PETN]

Personally I prefer to split, especially if training frequently. 

 

Also I don't think clen would be especially performance enhancing in a powerlifting context. More likely just ruin your trainings and comp by giving you cramp.

[hamdanz]

5 hours ago, Realtalk said:

Just want to say that a 5-7 day bodypart split (or bro split) and a push pull type program are completlet different approaches. On a 5 day split you are more likley to train the muscle with more isolation as that's the whole point of the program to train one muscle on one day so you are preserving the other muscle groups for their own days. On a push pull day you are likley training movements than muscles. So when people say they got stronger on a push pull program, well of course you did. Stronger at lifts you're doing more often. Just because it makes you stronger doesn't mean it's a superior way of training. Just my opinion.

 

Depends what your goals are.  If your goals are strength and functionality, then it is a superior way of training.  If your goal is to get on a stage in your undies, then it's not superior way of training for that specific goal.

 

Increasing my numbers for the 3 main lifts was my goal for a long time, as I enjoyed the challenge, and it gave direction.  I never plan to do a bodybuilding show, so aesthetics is secondary.

 

Omar who I mentions preaches the 'athletic aesthetic', which I guess it looks like you lift, but you don't particularly look like the generic bodybuilder.  I guess that's the look I'm after also, more cross fit than bodybuilding.

 

It uses aspects of strength and body building training, using the logic that you get stronger, and then you can lift more weight for your hypertrophy, leading to size & aesthetic gains.  

 

 

[PETN]

What exactly is push/pull/legs? Like can someone give me an example of what exercises and if applicable sets/reps you'd do on each day

[Realtalk]

I assume you train chest/tris/shoulders on a push day. Back and bis on a pull day. Then legs on leg day. Which is basically just a 3 day bro split instead of a 5 or 6 day split. I dunno what is bro about training quads, glutes and hams on separate days since they are the biggest muscles you have. Training them all on one day seems more "bro" to me whatever the F that even means lol.

 

The original method is push/pull so you would train the parts of the whole body each session. Someone added a legs day to it because they obviously realised the benefits of splitting muscle groups up.

[Realtalk]

2 hours ago, hamdanz said:

 

Depends what your goals are.  If your goals are strength and functionality, then it is a superior way of training.  If your goal is to get on a stage in your undies, then it's not superior way of training for that specific goal.

 

Increasing my numbers for the 3 main lifts was my goal for a long time, as I enjoyed the challenge, and it gave direction.  I never plan to do a bodybuilding show, so aesthetics is secondary.

 

Omar who I mentions preaches the 'athletic aesthetic', which I guess it looks like you lift, but you don't particularly look like the generic bodybuilder.  I guess that's the look I'm after also, more cross fit than bodybuilding.

 

It uses aspects of strength and body building training, using the logic that you get stronger, and then you can lift more weight for your hypertrophy, leading to size & aesthetic gains.  

 

 

 

I saw that OP is cutting so i doubt he is wanting to get strong. And if he was push pull legs is a pretty novice way to go about getting strong. 

 

I think we have different opinions on what's what. All g

 

 

[PETN]

16 minutes ago, Realtalk said:

I assume you train chest/tris/shoulders on a push day. Back and bis on a pull day. Then legs on leg day. Which is basically just a 3 day bro split instead of a 5 or 6 day split. I dunno what is bro about training quads, glutes and hams on separate days since they are the biggest muscles you have. Training them all on one day seems more "bro" to me whatever the F that even means lol.

 

The original method is push/pull so you would train the parts of the whole body each session. Someone added a legs day to it because they obviously realised the benefits of splitting muscle groups up.

 

Assumed it was something along those lines but thought maybe someone had made a specific push/pull/legs program for powerlifting or some shit.

 

I used to do chest+tris/legs/shoulders/back+bis then repeat or sometimes bis with shoulders instead of back. Sounds like essentially the same thing as push pull legs anyway except with shoulders split off. I considered this a split and I had pretty good strength gains while doing it.

 

As I got stronger though I found I needed more time for joints and tendons to recover which doing a split helps with while minimising the need for rest days (i still had to add them in increasingly though once I started lifting heavier).

 

Currently I don't train very often and I'll pair up different stuff, like chest and back, chest and shoulders, chest and bis, arms, back and shoulders. Sometimes I still do stuff separately too.

 

I don't think you can do justice to getting stronger at ohp and bench if you train both on the same day, and I find the same thing with doing bis and back on the same day. One will suffer at the others expense or vice versa. Similar with doing squats the day after deads or vice versa if both are heavy/intense.

 

The only reason I train shoulders after chest sometimes is because I can't do ohp anymore from joint pain (caused by Ross River virus). Pretty much just do my side raises and front raises after chest because I don't want to spend a whole session doing them and also I can't do too many sets of bench before I'm fucked. If I only train 2-or 3 times a week combining stuff helps me hit everything more regularly without big gaps. 

 

Would I do it if I trained frequently, was trying to get stronger and didn't have some bullshit virus? Definitely not. You can't hit everything properly; you won't be able to go as heavy and get the same reps as you would with the same frequency as if you split. That's my thoughts anyway.

[hamdanz]

12 hours ago, Realtalk said:

 

I saw that OP is cutting so i doubt he is wanting to get strong. And if he was push pull legs is a pretty novice way to go about getting strong. 

 

I think we have different opinions on what's what. All g

 

 

 

Yeah thats the beauty of training, there is no one size fits all.

 

Personally,  I think ppl is a great program to cut.

 

You get in a lot of volume, and you're doing mostly compound lifts, so burning a lot of calories.  Don't know how many you'd burn on an arms day tbh.

[Realtalk]

Probably have to differ again there bro, I think you would burn more calories doing a lesser volume high intensity weights session. You're not training hard or expending much energy training for hours with heavy compound movements. You're just lifting heavy. Doing you're strength program in 60-90min is training hard doing it in 3-4 hours isn't. it's not taking anything away from you bro it's just what I think. Just like how you were yarning on about you get no doms ever no matter what you do like you're special. Lol you just not training very hard by the sounds just train for ages. No offence man.

 

Ok so on an arms day you would just do cardio afterwards to burn what calories you need to. The arms day is to break down your biceps and triceps so they can recover and get bigger and stronger not to burn calories. 

 

Dont know how youre meant to fit a cardio session in when your Saturday leg session goes for 4 hours TBH...