BENCH! why won't you grow

[cory_huges]

Hey all,

 

I am looking at trying my hand at a bit of powerlifting this year. I am thinking of doing the GPC 3 lift in April. Just some quick stats.

Weight: 68KG      Height: 164CM

 

MAX Squat: 140-145KG (admittedly I haven't tired 1 rep max in a long time)

Deadlift: 195KG (can't seem to break 200)    

Bench: 90KG (pausing at the bottom)

 

The bench is with a pause at the bottom as if it was a comp. but as you can see it's my weakest exercise and I can't seem to really improve it.

 

I would like to know who has had a good success and with what regime to improve bench??

it's something I have trouble with and there's so many different articles out there it's hard to figure out what will work best for me.

I eat 6 times a day and sit day to day at roughly 8-9% BF and I train well enough to grow but my bench sits pretty much the same.

 

any advice would be appreciated

[Bigken1985]

Bench can be dependent on bodyweight alot of the time, or at least being in a caloric surplus. There is no secret routine, it can be a bit trial and error. 90k at 68k is still pretty good relative to your weight. I would go with something with pleanty of volume and frequency to start out, maybe a 5x5

[Skeletor]

Time and practice mate. Follow a good program .  I've always done well with benching 2-3 times a week .  Treat every rep from warm up to max the same . Setup is everything. 

[jbrauch53]

Try doing flat bench Dumbbell Bench Presses. With the Dumbbells you can kind of get an extra range of motion at the bottom of the movement and stretch your chest a bit more to do some more damage and make it stronger. I think with the bench press you dont get that range of motion because both your hands/arms are fixed to the plane that is the bar. So yeah with DB you can kind of bring your arms down more..... Thats just right off the top of my head, mate. The triceps and anterior delts are also important for bench pressing, so take some extra time to isolate them with a couple more exercises than you would normally do for them. Train hard, find a way! You'll get there. Protein!

[BeastBuilder]

Look hard at your technique mate, there is definitely a big difference between how a bodybuilder generally Benches and how a powerlifter will Bench for max weight.

Tightness is a major part of being able to hold a Paused Bench and still be strong so look into your Breathing Technique, Lat Involvement, Leg Drive.

[Bruce Al]

Do Try lowering the bar quickly and  exploding up without the pause at the bottom. May wana change up your rep range too.

[BeastBuilder]

32 minutes ago, Bruce Al said:

Do Try lowering the bar quickly and  exploding up without the pause at the bottom. May wana change up your rep range too.

 

He's doing a powerlifting comp where you have to wait for a press command, why would he start bouncing his reps ?

[Bruce Al]

You dont bounce the bar off your chest.  He wants to improve his bench.. this will do it.

[Bruce Al]

"The effects of varying interrepetition rest and eccentric velocity on power output (PO) and the number of repetitions performed during a bench press set were examined in 24 college-aged resistance trained men. On 6 separate occasions, subjects performed a set of bench press at 80% 1 repetition maximum until volitional fatigue. For each of the 6 repetition tempo trials, the bench press set was paced by metronome to a unique repetition tempo involving a combination of the following: interrepetition rest of 0 or 4 seconds; eccentric velocity of 1 or 4 seconds and bottom rest of 0 or 3 seconds. The velocity of concentric contraction was maximal during all 6 tempo trials. During each trial, video data were captured to determine PO variables and number of successful repetitions completed at each tempo. One-way repeated measures analysis of variance showed tempos with a fast eccentric phase (1 second), and no bottom rest produced significantly greater (p ≤ 0.05) PO and repetitions than tempos involving slower eccentric velocity (4 seconds) or greater bottom rest (4 seconds). This combination of greater repetitions and PO resulted in a greater volume of work. Varying interrepetition rest (1 or 4 seconds) did not significantly affect PO or repetitions. The results of this study support the use of fast eccentric speed and no bottom rest during acute performance testing to maximize PO and number of repetitions during a set of bench press."

 

[BeastBuilder]

You didn't need to post a study for me to know that minimizing eccentric stress and no pause at the bottom would maximise reps etc.

Did you actually read his post ?

 

He wants to enter a powerlifting comp, which entails a pause at the bottom, plus being tighter helps a lot when lifting a 1RM, and it is quite often easier to hold tightness lowering the bar a bit slower than trying to get to your chest as fast as possible. 

Specificity has it's place.

[Bruce Al]

Yes i did read his post. Doing what i posted will help improve his 1RM.

[M.T]

Assuming technique is sound i'd suggest jumping on a Sheiko program. Hits all 3 lifts only 3-4 days a week so you could add more if you wanted (I wouldn't). Bench is every session and sometimes twice a session, personally have gained about 15kgs in about 3 months, after 6 years of PL this is pretty encouraging.

[Shutupandsquat]

41 minutes ago, M.T said:

Assuming technique is sound i'd suggest jumping on a Sheiko program. Hits all 3 lifts only 3-4 days a week so you could add more if you wanted (I wouldn't). Bench is every session and sometimes twice a session, personally have gained about 15kgs in about 3 months, after 6 years of PL this is pretty encouraging.

 

Would you say that previous training experience in powerlifting allowed you to make that switch?

 

Meaning you were already used to the powerlifting-style approach to training and changing the technique by increasing frequency allowed you to progress BUT, if you had done that straight off the bat (which I don't think you did, but correct me if I'm wrong) do you think it would have hindered you more than helped you?

 

OP is obviously coming from bodybuilding roots and wouldn't be used to going that heavy, that frequently. Do you think it would be in his best interest to do a 5x5 or reverse pyramid program first (while he also sorts his technique) and then switch to Sheiko 8 weeks later?

 

I do a bodybuilding type strength program where I will test my 1RM and from there I go, "Okay so my 5RM should theoretically be x amount" and then I get 5 reps the next week, then 6 the next, then 8 the week after then I'll go up in weight (an extra 5-10

for bench and 10-20 for deadlifts) and I'll get 3 reps the next week, then 5 the week after and so on and so forth. That works for me BUT it is very individualised. Maybe I could gain strength faster on a different program, but bodybuilding is my priority so I get the best of both worlds.

[Bigken1985]

3 hours ago, BeastBuilder said:

You didn't need to post a study for me to know that minimizing eccentric stress and no pause at the bottom would maximise reps etc.

Did you actually read his post ?

 

He wants to enter a powerlifting comp, which entails a pause at the bottom, plus being tighter helps a lot when lifting a 1RM, and it is quite often easier to hold tightness lowering the bar a bit slower than trying to get to your chest as fast as possible. 

Specificity has it's place.

For me, my bench has improved ALOT since pausing  all of my reps, not a long pause but certainly controlling the weight onto the chest, far tighter and have got better and stronger at benching too 

[cory_huges]

Good morning and thank you all for your feedback/advice,

 

I will look into Sheiko program, but BeastBuilder  is probably right in that I bench like a bodybuilder, and haven't trained bench as much as I should have over the last couple of years, as I preferred to do dumbells in the past.

 

I'll try pausing on every rep and doing 5x5s for the next few weeks to see how that goes and probably try a few powerlifting seminars somewhere in Auckland.

 

[M.T]

1 hour ago, Shutupandsquat said:

 

Would you say that previous training experience in powerlifting allowed you to make that switch?

 

Meaning you were already used to the powerlifting-style approach to training and changing the technique by increasing frequency allowed you to progress BUT, if you had done that straight off the bat (which I don't think you did, but correct me if I'm wrong) do you think it would have hindered you more than helped you?

 

OP is obviously coming from bodybuilding roots and wouldn't be used to going that heavy, that frequently. Do you think it would be in his best interest to do a 5x5 or reverse pyramid program first (while he also sorts his technique) and then switch to Sheiko 8 weeks later?

 

I do a bodybuilding type strength program where I will test my 1RM and from there I go, "Okay so my 5RM should theoretically be x amount" and then I get 5 reps the next week, then 6 the next, then 8 the week after then I'll go up in weight (an extra 5-10

for bench and 10-20 for deadlifts) and I'll get 3 reps the next week, then 5 the week after and so on and so forth. That works for me BUT it is very individualised. Maybe I could gain strength faster on a different program, but bodybuilding is my priority so I get the best of both worlds.

 

What switch?

 

Sorry OP I should have mentioned the big jump was not the frequency of training, SUAS I did all the bench programs (Smolov jnr, 5x5, westside, Russian, Bulgarian) but it was the pause of EVERY rep. As BigKen has pointed out which to me sounds like you are already doing. Which lead me to think it's the type of program you are using that isn't giving it enough attention and to improve your weight a PL program would work for you. BB or not it's going to increase your numbers provided you don't over reach put in accurate numbers into Sheiko template.

 

Sheiko isn't heavy at all very rarely works over 85% so this should re-enforce technique at a fatigued state and you can always add BB movements to the end of it.

[BeastBuilder]

If you're going to increase your volume and frequency of Benching OP, make sure that your technique is at least reasonable and how you are guna wanna Bench as otherwise you're just reinforcing bad techniques.

 

I think someone said it before but treat every rep from warm up to top sets as an opportunity to improve. You're body will recognise and remember the movement pattern and it will become the new normal.

 

Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

[soundsgood]

Coming from bodybuilding background I can almost guarantee the issue will be technical more than anything Cory.  No point continuing to hammer a nail with a sponge.  Get that technique sorted first then the programming will pay off two fold.

 

Will be holding a powerlifting seminar in Auckland for GPC lifters shortly leading into Auck champs so make sure you come down and we will have a look for you :)

[HarryB]

Please don't work on increasing your arch and moving your hands our wider to shorten the rom.. that's not doing you any long term favors :) 

 

 

[AuntMaud]

I suggest working on increasing your arch and moving your hands out wider to shorten the rom.

Haha

But seriously, if your goal is to improve bench press numbers and you are currently benching like a bodybuilder i.e. flat back and no leg drive, then you can probably gain a huge amount by changing up your form.

Working on your arch will also help prevent shoulder impingement while benching, allowing you to handle more volume and heavier weights without risk.

I don't know why so many bodybuilders look down on the powerlifting style bench, it's a safer and more efficient movement which allows you to handle more weight. Decreasing the ROM does decrease chest activation, which occurs most at the bottom of the movement, however increasing grip width INCREASES chest activation.
Also, it's not like bench press is the only movement in the world that works chest, if you are that worried about missing out on the work you can always follow it up with some dumbbell fly's or something similar.

I highly recommend this article which explains the difference between flat and arched, narrow and wide:
http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/powerlifting-technique-bench-press-form/
And this article on bench press setup and execution:

http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/powerlifting-technique-how-to-bench-press/

[Realtalk]

Most bbers don't even touch their chest when they bench press so arching and touching the chest basically be the same as far as rom goes. 

[HarryB]

Ha ha ha so true. Kind of like how most powerlfiters despite their programming, technique changes and specialisation are piss poor bench pressers anyway? 

 

Nah really what I was getting at is that the arch and hand spacing are going to give him a small increase immediately but he's a 90k bencher. What they don't do is work all the muscles in a full rom allowing for more strength in the long term. Also to say it's a safer way to bench is a crock. It's the most effective way to leverage the most out of your existing strength but it isn't any safer than bodybuilding style benching. What injures people is constant repetitive strain even with perfect form  (whatever that is) and slipping out of form with heavy weight. I mean I'm pretty sure realtalk wasn't doing sloppy form when he hurt his pec. Shit just happens. 

 

Also the op competes in bodybuilding doesn't he? Why change up what's working for him in terms of development when that's his priority just for one powerlifting comp. I mean small changes yes but big ones are never a good idea especially when lifting close to 1 rep max. 

 

I'd say most beneficial would be a change in the mindset toward benching. Working ancillary muscles to assist in a good bench etc etc etc not so much making big changes to something you've been doing for a while. Those things come over time. 

[M.T]

2 hours ago, HarryB said:

Ha ha ha so true. Kind of like how most powerlfiters despite their programming, technique changes and specialisation are piss poor bench pressers anyway? 

 

Nah really what I was getting at is that the arch and hand spacing are going to give him a small increase immediately but he's a 90k bencher. What they don't do is work all the muscles in a full rom allowing for more strength in the long term. Also to say it's a safer way to bench is a crock. It's the most effective way to leverage the most out of your existing strength but it isn't any safer than bodybuilding style benching. What injures people is constant repetitive strain even with perfect form  (whatever that is) and slipping out of form with heavy weight. I mean I'm pretty sure realtalk wasn't doing sloppy form when he hurt his pec. Shit just happens. 

 

Also the op competes in bodybuilding doesn't he? Why change up what's working for him in terms of development when that's his priority just for one powerlifting comp. I mean small changes yes but big ones are never a good idea especially when lifting close to 1 rep max. 

 

I'd say most beneficial would be a change in the mindset toward benching. Working ancillary muscles to assist in a good bench etc etc etc not so much making big changes to something you've been doing for a while. Those things come over time. 

you've changed Harry 

[HarryB]

Well as the only bb on the site who's benched 220 for a triple... oh inclined it too ;) I've decided to toe the line and respect plers...... interesting the only guys doing 200+ benches on here don't have much of an arch and don't use an overly wide grip :) I'm referring to Hamish and Tom. They have real power though cos I can't pause anything lol 

[Bruce Al]

They do have real power