Jimmybros gone vegan

[Bigken1985]

1 hour ago, jimmybro1 said:

Cholesterol and high blood pressure cause heart disease.

 

Animal fats are high in cholesterol.

 

  

Is 3.8 Even high, Last time I checked dietary cholesterol is not really rated to lipid levels, the stuff your talking about is what Ancel Keys study did back in the 50s, problem was he only chose to include countries in his study that suited his theory, it has now come out that he was completely wrong, why do you think the usda had lifted recommendations on dietary cholesterol

[Bruce Al]

1 hour ago, HarryB said:

 

 

[I Declare War]

Good stuff Jimmy.

 

I do a similar thing to you. 5-6 days a week I eat things like muesli, fruit, one square meal bars, cheese and vegetable sandwiches, and eggs. I decided to continue with dairy and eggs... it's just easier and tastier.

 

I find that by the weekend I have quite a craving for red meat though. It's probably in my head, rather than my body actually requiring it. So, I make an exception for sanity's sake and eat whatever on Friday night and sometimes Saturday too. On Sunday I resume my no meat diet where practical.

 

It would be good if there was some vegetarian food that was as tasty and nutritious as meat but there isn't... there would definitely be a good market for a real meat substitute.

 

I'm trying to eat less meat to help lose weight and because I think that it's not a good thing to kill animals for food when we have the technology to manufacture a substitute. I think we as a technologically advanced species can't really argue anymore that killing animals for food is a good thing, no matter how it's spun.

[HarryB]

If the issue is meat and killing animals. Why call it veganism. Just have protein powder and call it... supplementism

[jimmybro1]

6 hours ago, Bigken1985 said:

Is 3.8 Even high, Last time I checked dietary cholesterol is not really rated to lipid levels, the stuff your talking about is what Ancel Keys study did back in the 50s, problem was he only chose to include countries in his study that suited his theory, it has now come out that he was completely wrong, why do you think the usda had lifted recommendations on dietary cholesterol

I think your right there a colleague meantioned something along these lines today. I haven't had a chance to look into it myself. 

 

Trans fats are the real issue. 

[jimmybro1]

2 hours ago, HarryB said:

If the issue is meat and killing animals. Why call it veganism. Just have protein powder and call it... supplementism

Dairy industry is just as rough on cows. NZ more comfortable but in countries like America is pretty cruel. Same goes with eggs although that industry is particularly rough. 

 

The dairy industries water consumption and waste is considerable and contributes greatly towards emissions, water table contamination and soil contamination. FYI I work for the dairy industry . 

 

Its not something that is going to change, weather it is a real issues is the begging question ... 

[Longboa]

Just now, jimmybro1 said:

Dairy industry is just as rough on cows. NZ more comfortable but in countries like America is pretty cruel. Same goes with eggs although that industry is particularly rough. 

 

The dairy industries water consumption and waste is considerable and contributes greatly towards emissions, water table contamination and soil contamination. FYI I work for the dairy industry . 

 

Its not something that is going to change, weather it is a real issues is the begging question ... 

 

Maybe a little off topic from your point of the thread, and you may understand most of this stuff already but the book 'Abundance' by peter diamandis outlines a lot of the issues surrounding water usage and mitigating against future global issues. Might interest you to read

[Terrymundo]

Good to see more people becoming aware of the impact their consumption has. Its been building my mind too over the years, I even had a vegan scare last year where I cut out meat more 3 weeks, can't say a physically felt better but I have a positive psychological.....but I soon lapsed back into my blood lust diet.

 

Im just thinking......I know a lot of strong lifters who are vegan. our old friend mike zero has been vegetarian/vegan for a few years now and is one of the strongest units I know. Also a chap I train with by the name of Josh Reti is vegan and moves some big numbers, nearing or surpassing 300kg in raw squats and deads.. also Jaime King from Christchurch has some the best wilks numbers Ive witnessed.

[Realtalk]

Did they get strong being a vegan? Getting strong and maintaining strength are completely different.

 

i doubt mike is very strong now bro.

 

[Terrymundo]

Just now, Realtalk said:

Did they get strong being a vegan? Getting strong and maintaining strength are completely different.

 

i doubt mike is very strong now bro.

 

Best bit of information I have is from Josh whom went full vegan about 3 months ago , he claims hes improved in his squat and deadlift obviously not a direct result of the diet change but maybe just stating he felt it was not hindering his improvement. I'm still going say a vegan diet is not optimal for strength gain and possibly even far from it, but its not the achilles heel for any vegan lifter that people often say it is.

 

Mike is not interested in heavy maxes these days, but no doubt has/had the potential match his previous lifts with his new diet. He was still an absolute beast in the gym when we last trained together and he was vegetarian.

[jimmybro1]

2 hours ago, Longboa said:

 

Maybe a little off topic from your point of the thread, and you may understand most of this stuff already but the book 'Abundance' by peter diamandis outlines a lot of the issues surrounding water usage and mitigating against future global issues. Might interest you to read

Cheers, will have to have a read. 

 

Im no hippy but I don't think you need to be to see where things could be going. 

 

We are massive consumers with little regard to what comes of the waste or where our food came from. People debate oil sustainability all the time but rarely a decision on the food we eat with regards to Origin and byproducts (waste) 

[jimmybro1]

38 minutes ago, Terrymundo said:

Best bit of information I have is from Josh whom went full vegan about 3 months ago , he claims hes improved in his squat and deadlift obviously not a direct result of the diet change but maybe just stating he felt it was not hindering his improvement. I'm still going say a vegan diet is not optimal for strength gain and possibly even far from it, but its not the achilles heel for any vegan lifter that people often say it is.

 

Mike is not interested in heavy maxes these days, but no doubt has/had the potential match his previous lifts with his new diet. He was still an absolute beast in the gym when we last trained together and he was vegetarian.

I think with  adequate understanding of foods surely vegan or vegetarian diet could be  sufficient for performance. 

 

A lot of  misconception that meat is required to perform well  athletically but I haven't seen anything that  supports this. 

 

 The factors that there are a lot more meat eaters then there are vegetarians making them more of an anomaly. 

[GyzzBrah]

I cannot speak for what other people do in the rest of the world, but here in NZ, "sustainability" in the agricultural industry is purely an issue caused by overburdening land regulations and an economic environment that smothers private property rights and innovation, stopping bright individuals from using capitalism to find new ways to overcome environmental hurdles etc.

 

If you head over to the ACT party website, plenty of info on these things occurring in real life.

 

For example, A Waikato farmer was fined over $50,000 for planting mangroves in a small stream that picked up runoff from his farm. He says the mangroves would help filter out the runoff, and he took it upon himself to keep NZ clean, but was punished.

 

Innovation and entrepreneurship by private individuals is the key to a sustainable economy. A farmer knows more on how to run his own farm than a bureaucrat in wellington.

[maccaz]

1 hour ago, GyzzBrah said:

I cannot speak for what other people do in the rest of the world, but here in NZ, "sustainability" in the agricultural industry is purely an issue caused by overburdening land regulations and an economic environment that smothers private property rights and innovation, stopping bright individuals from using capitalism to find new ways to overcome environmental hurdles etc.

 

If you head over to the ACT party website, plenty of info on these things occurring in real life.

 

For example, A Waikato farmer was fined over $50,000 for planting mangroves in a small stream that picked up runoff from his farm. He says the mangroves would help filter out the runoff, and he took it upon himself to keep NZ clean, but was punished.

 

Innovation and entrepreneurship by private individuals is the key to a sustainable economy. A farmer knows more on how to run his own farm than a bureaucrat in wellington.

straight up, f*ck off

[maccaz]

1 hour ago, jimmybro1 said:

I think with  adequate understanding of foods surely vegan or vegetarian diet could be  sufficient for performance. 

 

A lot of  misconception that meat is required to perform well  athletically but I haven't seen anything that  supports this. 

 

 The factors that there are a lot more meat eaters then there are vegetarians making them more of an anomaly. 

im def pro minimising cruely and supporting sustainable production where financially feasible.

 

one thing i find difficult in a vegan/vegetarian diet is where to get the protein from without blowing out calories hugely? how would a vegan cut for example without dropping protein way down. now i understand we don't need as much protein as we are led to believe (or are we?) but still.. unsure how to make it work.

 

not an option for me as im a pretty keen meat eater, but buy free range where possible (if that even means anything)

[Pseudonym]

18 hours ago, jimmybro1 said:

Maybe Re:photos but never took before photos as like you said I don't train for physique purposes. Hard to judge strenght to as coming back from injury.

Take some photos now - you're only 2 weeks in. That's close enough to a before photo. Make a note of your weight and BF% too.

 

I just want to see if you suddenly turn into a ripped bastard.

(I have nothing but anecdote to base this on, but on the occasions I've dropped my protein, the body fat seems to have fallen off faster than when I restrict carbs or fats - so I'm curious to see if a vegan diet does this for you.)

[I Declare War]

@Pseudonym I think as Harry pointed out, we shouldn't call his diet "vegan", as it isn't. He's eating Chicken breast on his "cheat" day. 

 

@jimmybro1 I agree with you regarding dairy and eggs. But you've got to start somewhere. For me, cutting back meat is a good starting point and it's good to understand exactly why you're doing something. You can always choose to eat free range eggs, and organic dairy. I don't, because I grew up on a farm and the animals usually have it OK, especially dairy cows. Chickens not so much, so I'd sooner go free range for my eggs. It's not ideal, there's things I really don't like about the industry. I think in future we will be able to economically reproduce milk proteins in vats using GM bacteria (same for eggs). Then I'll switch.

 

@HarryB Supplementing with protein powder just doesn't do it for me. You need minerals and something that tastes good, something that can kill that meat craving, which isn't meat.

 

@Terrymundo Agree. Good that people are waking up and making conscious decisions. The collective consciousness of the people is increasing. :)

[GyzzBrah]

1 hour ago, I Declare War said:

@Terrymundo Agree. Good that people are waking up and making conscious decisions. The collective consciousness of the people is increasing. :)

 

By collective consciousness do you mean a bunch of millennials protesting about something or the other lol?

 

I highly recommend watching these videos, some good information in them hopefully will enlighten on these kinds of issues that are going on..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im perfectly ok with people being vegan for health issues, but so sick of hearing people blame 'western consumerism' and the like for all our problems.

[I Declare War]

@GyzzBrah I just mean that some of us are thinking a little more now rather than following instinct and cultural tradition. Don't read too much into it.

 

Regarding CO2, that is fucking stupid. CO2 is a good thing for plants, but too much too quick isn't good for humans. Many of our major cities are at near sea level. The increase in CO2 at the current rate is causing sea level to rise at 1-2cm per year. At the current rate we will have to relocate many of our cities within our lifetimes. That's expensive. It's not going to change anytime soon though, I think we will just burn through carbon fuels until they're practically all gone.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/12/28/bangkok-rising-sea-levels-mohsin-pkg.cnn

[GyzzBrah]

I think I should just not comment on anything political related from now on. Might as well give up, everyone is a liberal these days.

maybe the problem lies with me. I share much the same views as Wookie etc do, but ppl only complain when its me saying it.

Staying away from anything political now on.

[Wookie]

Nah Gyzz, you make some good points.

Don't feel bad. 

A free-market economy is also ultimately what will lead to better treatment of animals. The more people that want free-range eggs over caged, will lead to the free-range eggs getting cheaper. 

 

Part of the issue here really boils down to whether you believe it is moral or not to kill animals for meat. As a Christian who believes humans have superior dignity, value and worth to animals (Genesis 1:26-27) I have no issue with it. The world exists for humanity, not humanity for the world like many believe. That said, we are stewards of the world, and therefore wrecking it and being cruel to animals at the same time isn't a good thing. Hunting your own meat is a good way to eat, and quickly stops the naivety which exists when you just buy things from a supermarket. 

That's how I see the world. Hence I don't feel guilty eating a steak.

[bang_bang]

I follow vegan gains as well he has certainly opened my eyes although in reality I haven't changed my habits much. I've often thought about giving up dairy because i've seen first hand the damage its done to the enviroment here in canterbury but giving it up isn't going to change anything and I do my bit by raising awareness, signing petitions and voting green etc. Also I'm a very keen hunter and fisherman so I don't buy any animal products other than chicken/eggs and milk/cheese. 

[I Declare War]

@Wookie killing animals is a fact of nature. We have evolved for millions of years killing and being killed for food. But, we now are conscious enough to be able to create alternatives ourselves. Believing that we intrinsicly have superiour dignity and more worth is absolutely absurd, we are animals ourselves afterall. What we could do is create food artificially, without the need to use an animal with a brain. If we could produce all our food this way, we could fence off vast tracts of land and let it return to nature. We would have our garden of eden back! Rather, many species are heading for extinction and we are degrading our environment.

[Wookie]

4 minutes ago, I Declare War said:

@Wookie  Believing that we intrinsicly have superiour dignity and more worth is absolutely absurd,

 

Can I get you to clarify that you believe that any animal (including humans) with a brain has equal dignity, value and worth?

[HarryB]

I think this topic has gone from one man's personal decision to kind of become about 60% vegan to a discussion that now revolves around ethics, values and religious beliefs. Let's have a BBQ and talk about it in person :)