Nzifbb why so unprofessional

[HarryB]

He handed them out willy nilly in the past, look at all the dreamers with them that aren't even actively using it (competing). I wouldn't be surprised if a higher power told him to settle down. After all it is meant to be an elite league is it not?

He handed some out in March, I don't think NZ is big enough to have two separate pro card handouts a year. What's wrong with once a year if not good enough, wait till next year.

I did hear that after the less than stellar quality of some of the pros they put a bit of a stopper on him giving so many away. Who knows?

Although with a couple of kiwis in the O and now Kurt Dell getting 3rd at Phoenix pro. Things are looking up..

[Realtalk]

I don't think it has ever been clear cut or guaranteed if you win. Justin Rhys won everything as amatuer and even he had to sit in front of the committee and they voted on weather he should be given one or not. That was years ago. Weather he sat in front of committee I don't know, but they voted on it.

It's always been like that. But I agree with you it should be black and white. My guess is they don't do that though because if they said pro card not given at a particular show, would the top guys who want one still do it? I don't think so.

[trainlikeafreak]

I am sure it was advertised that the men's Classic physique overall winner would get a pro card?

[soundsgood]

The IFBB pro league has rules that state you must place top 3 at a world champs or win an international event to be considered for a pro card

An international competition is one where there are competitors from 2 other countries other than the host nation.

Then an application must be made to Madrid who oversee this process and approve or decline any applicants based on the validity of the win and probably stage photos I guess as well as a nominating letter from the president of their home nation

This is now being clamped down on as too many pro cards have been given out

What does this mean? Dan and Steve will have to try and win Arnold's Ohio before they can be awarded a pro card

[maccaz]

Ha. No shit.

LOL.

If we can get a good photo of both sides, I know a Chinese guy who could whip up a batch of 10,000 of them for about $25

In on fake pro card scheme

Brb changing facebook name to ifbb pro

[Matrix]

I think the one of the exceptions to the IFBB Pro League qualifiers needing to international competitions would be the NPC in the US where the standard is super high usually and they give a few cards away each year at the Nationals and USA etc,

 

Some big names got there Pro Card at International Shows ala Ronnie Coleman.

[amitnz]

Just wanted to add on those thank you Moe posts. It is my opinion in any argument/case/story all sides should be fairly represented. I'm not really speaking about anyone else just myself really. I did make some of these posts in the past. 
I thought Moe was one of my best friends & he treated me more than a brother. I say this because there were many times he went out of his way to just be nice to me and my family trusted me with thousands of dollars and never really questioned me. My children still play with some of his children's toys and I drive around with car seats that his children used to use. If we needed help moving house or anything that a friend would help with he was there. He is a loving father and really does do a lot of good for athletes and people behind the scenes. I've often seen him hand out supplements to people that were struggling financially. Plus many other good deeds, that is a side to Moe that very few people may see, that is the reason for some of those posts. Some of the others might be thinking sucking up can get them somewhere, what that really happens almost everywhere. Jobs, schools etc.

With regards to the NZIFBB shows being "unprofessional" I personally dont entirely agree. There is a shit load of work that goes in behind the scenes. Also the shows are growing getting bigger and bigger with more and more to do so there has been some teething issues in nailing down the process.

The problem in my opinion is no politics in the judging.  But this is a tricky part. It's always been "The Industry" against Moe. For example Shotgun Supplements purchased Extremenutrition.co.nz redirected it to their website before the warehouse purchased them taking some of Moes traffic online without his knowledge, and some competitors spread rumours about his brands. I used Pro Fight & the other brands and my brothers and really great products. So I think he's just never really trusted anyone. And the people he trusted has had fallouts with. Again im just speaking from personal experience. Technically were a competitor now so it doesn't help me financially to support XN brands but I believe in the truth and being fair, karma.

So he's just developed this style of management that keeps him in control and it keeps him safe, his business and family. There are some BS links and articles that have gone up over the years like this: (http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Pro-Fight-Supplements/various-California-/Pro-Fight-Supplements-Pro-Fight-Supplements-Charged-By-FDA-for-putting-deadly-chemical-f-982425) 

 

Just my two cents. Good to see the sport of bodybuilding growing and cheers to the team running the forum so "The Industry" has a voice. 

[maccaz]

Just wanted to add on those thank you Moe posts. It is my opinion in any argument/case/story all sides should be fairly represented. I'm not really speaking about anyone else just myself really. I did make some of these posts in the past. 

I thought Moe was one of my best friends & he treated me more than a brother. I say this because there were many times he went out of his way to just be nice to me and my family trusted me with thousands of dollars and never really questioned me. My children still play with some of his children's toys and I drive around with car seats that his children used to use. If we needed help moving house or anything that a friend would help with he was there. He is a loving father and really does do a lot of good for athletes and people behind the scenes. I've often seen him hand out supplements to people that were struggling financially. Plus many other good deeds, that is a side to Moe that very few people may see, that is the reason for some of those posts. Some of the others might be thinking sucking up can get them somewhere, what that really happens almost everywhere. Jobs, schools etc.

With regards to the NZIFBB shows being "unprofessional" I personally dont entirely agree. There is a shit load of work that goes in behind the scenes. Also the shows are growing getting bigger and bigger with more and more to do so there has been some teething issues in nailing down the process.

The problem in my opinion is no politics in the judging.  But this is a tricky part. It's always been "The Industry" against Moe. For example Shotgun Supplements purchased Extremenutrition.co.nz redirected it to their website before the warehouse purchased them taking some of Moes traffic online without his knowledge, and some competitors spread rumours about his brands. I used Pro Fight & the other brands and my brothers and really great products. So I think he's just never really trusted anyone. And the people he trusted has had fallouts with. Again im just speaking from personal experience. Technically were a competitor now so it doesn't help me financially to support XN brands but I believe in the truth and being fair, karma.

So he's just developed this style of management that keeps him in control and it keeps him safe, his business and family. There are some BS links and articles that have gone up over the years like this: (http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Pro-Fight-Supplements/various-California-/Pro-Fight-Supplements-Pro-Fight-Supplements-Charged-By-FDA-for-putting-deadly-chemical-f-982425) 

 

Just my two cents. Good to see the sport of bodybuilding growing and cheers to the team running the forum so "The Industry" has a voice. 

you've changed your tune mate haha you worried about your house getting burnt down or something?

[amitnz]

Nah not at all glad to be out on our on and no involvement with anything to with the NZIFBB but there is a good side to that guy, even though he's ripped us off pretty badly. I'm just hopeful he gets the msg before everything collapses again, as if anyone of you remember there was a time before the recession XN had 7-8 stores which closed down. I know for a fact there is cracks within Da familia atm. Salah himself said to me he'd love to be the president of the NZIFBB. Alma who was also "Our friend" hit us from the side when we confronted Moe face to face about mistreating us, going back on his word and ripping us off financially. Alma has supposedly been offered a job a some special physio $160k but turned it down because of Moe and is "upset" just to name a few, the NZ dollar is weak, PAYE evasion went on in the past and SMAD nutrition his brothers company that exports supplements declaring under cost to avoid paying the correct duties so supplements can continue to be sold cheaply all this will inevitably catch up. With the leases and staff/Team Xtreme wages fixed costs are at an all time high for "The Business" comprising of the NZIFBB & Xtreme Nutrition, with market trust in the brand and the sub brands at an all time low due to the numbers of people that have been hard done by over the years.  So there is a real "need" to make things appear better than they are kind of like the 50 cent scenario of faking "Richness" - But you cannot fake it forever. Just hopeful from one man to another change your ways, treat people nicely, keep your word and leave the politics to John Key, otherwise things will sink again in my opinion. 

[HarryB]

He's not sole owner of Narlabs anymore is he?

[amitnz]

Was always his brothers, originally made up of two products Androstar and Nolvastar. I dont know how & why they've hidden the true ownership. We formulated Nar Labs lean whey as there was a demand for it in the market, with Sutton group, which has since been sold. He said let my brother make it and you can have a share in things. When the business and brands grew he changed his tune. Narlabs MFL Profight and Nutrigenix are all in the "group" . After continually trashing other brands in the market (EAS, Gaspari, ON) new brands a reluctant to work with the group, plus no other retailer wants to carry their brands forcing the need for more shops for any potential growth. 

[Blackburn]

Salah President of the NZFBB,not in a million years,he will be in jail way before that what being a KC prospect and all plus with his current dealings that he does it shouldnt be long .

[maccaz]

Salah President of the NZFBB,not in a million years,he will be in jail way before that what being a KC prospect and all plus with his current dealings that he does it shouldnt be long .

lol he looks like a straight up criminal

 

i could find 5 pill dealers in west melbourne that look exactly like him

 

dont even know these people but lol at Moe and Salah deep throating tony doherty

 

[Michael Knight]

LOL

 

Einstein can't even spell his "good friends" name right

[Realtalk]

I was talking about pro cards before...

NZFBB 1994 - 2008 Pro Cards Issued: 11 (.78 cards per year).

30 Pro Cards issued since 2009, 20 of them either sponsored by or work for Xtreme nutrition at some point.

That's 5 a year, pro rated, it would be like Aus giving out 25 a year or the US giving 388 a year.

There was a bit of an uproar recently when the US gave out 70. That's like us giving out 1 based on population.

[soundsgood]

Tony is a Genuine GC

Here's his back story in case you hadn't read it already

Apologies for long copy paste but I thought it was a good read

I started out in the gym business in about 1985, I had been working at a fitness centre in my home town for a year or two and saw an opportunity to buy it. I thought I knew everything and I paid way too much for it. At the time there was two gyms in a town of 100,000 people. Within three years there were nine gyms and the market share had shrunk. I still thought I knew it all and pushed ahead, losing money every month. I had gone into it with my parents backing and after the first few years just about lost the lot, including the family home. Being a cocky ****er, I just didn't get it and continued to think I knew it all, as young men do.

By 1994 things had become really bad, the town was over saturated by gyms, two more had opened up in my street and the wolves were circling. By then I was becoming well established as a bodybuilding promoter in Melbourne and knew that I needed to move quickly or lose the lot. I just could not see a way out. Then it hit me. I went to see the guy that had opened across the road, I knew his lease was coming up and he wanted to grow. I offered him my lease, all of my members and some equipment. I would walk away and he would get a better building and double his membership overnight. My only condition was that he would honour the members that had paid upfront, after all my folks still had to live int he town and I had to walk away with some dignity.

My dad has always been a partner in the business and we have become very close over the years, he still does all the bookwork and accounts which allows me to forge ahead.

I opened up in Brunswick, Melbourne in a small warehouse (400m2) with a truckload of worn out equipment, zero members and a dream. I had learned a lot but still thought I knew it all, there would be some more hard medicine ahead, all I had going for me was that I was too driven, stubborn or stupid to quit. At that time all I wanted was somewhere to train, somewhere to live and a Harley Davison motorcycle (one day).

The first year I lost everything to keep the doors open, house, cars, furniture, you name it I lost it. The phone or power got cut every month for the first year, at least. I had no where to live and no car, all I had was a vertical grill and a rice cooker. I slept on the couch at the gym most nights for that first 9 months, I would get up in the morning and walk up to the main road to get a paper and a coffee. This way it looked like I had come from somewhere when I would walk to the gym to open up at 6AM. I would work through to 9PM, most days on my own until everyone had left, once again I would lock up and pretend to head home until everyone had gone, then sneak back and let myself back in.

I stayed with Sonny Schmidt's family a couple of nights a week and his brother Pale stated working at the gym. They were very kind to me and that Samoan food kept me going. When Sonny moved back to Australia we managed to get a little rental across from the gym, it was a dump but worked great at the time. I started training like crazy with Sonny for the Olympia's and the gym started to get a following. People would come to watch us train and I started to get a few clients.

I still had nothing to show, but the gym was starting to go better and I had paid back most of the bills that I had bought with me. Once I started to get on top, I would buy a piece of equipment every time that I had some money in the bank. It was 6 years before started to get a regular wage but I managed to hustle up enough to survive between contests, personal training and a bit of debt collecting.

It was about this time that I started to wise up and realise that I didn't know everything at all. By now I had met Amanda (my wife to be) and we were starting to live a bit better. I managed to put food on the table, but still no car or flash living. At least I had killed my ego and learned a lot about myself and people from all walks of life. Looking back, going hungry and losing just about everything was the best thing that happened to me, no easy ride and looking down the barrel every day was probably what I needed to wake me up.

By 1998 we had kind of out grown the small building and the landlord wanted to turn it into apartments. So after finally getting ahead, (still no wage) but I owned all my equipment and had started to get our name out there. It was then that I found our current building, it was three times the size and the rent was also three times the size. However I have always thought that you have to risk something that matters. So with that we moved into Weston Street and it was like starting all over again. We went 24:7 immediately and things got really bad again. It was a good gym but with the overheads going up so much, it was impossible to make a buck. For the next three years I fought every day, worked twelve hour days and did everything myself, cleaning, maintenance, graphics, mail-outs, contests and day to day management. Things slowly started to turn around. I kept my policy of buying equipment every time I could, I would scour the internet and auction sites to find the best stuff I could at the right price. I kept pushing myself and by the time my first child was born in 2002, I was earning wages every week and business was looking better than before.

In 2001 I held our first pro show and the brand started to get known worldwide. We started to attract all types of athletes form Olympians to AFL footballers and power athletes from everywhere. Around 2004 we launched Muscle TV and I had started to work as a strength and conditioning coach at the Carlton Football Club, which gave us more credibility and a bigger following. Over the next 5 years it started to work, I kept buying equipment and expanding the gym. To this day I own every piece in every gym and don't lease any equipment at all. It keeps your overheads down and takes away most of the stress.

Three years ago I had a opportunity to buy an old hardcore gym that was rundown and going broke, it was in a great location and just need some love. I had to risk everything all over again. With the encouragement of my wife and family I went for it. We fixed it up nice and it is now very busy day and night. A couple of years ago I had the same opportunity in the middle of the City, it was in worse shape and provided the biggest challenge of all. It is also flying now and to have Tiger Woods train there for the last two weeks was the icing on the cake. We have done the same again North of where we are and also in my original home town. The last two are still to break even but heading in the right direction and getting busier every week.

The expos and shows have taken over a lot of my time now but have huge potential. I now have 62 staff and 4 of the gyms run 24:7, every day of the year. We have four healthy kids and live pretty well. I have never forgotten where I have come from and love to see others reach their potential. I still spend every day in the gym and wouldn't change it for the world. I am still working on the gym to make it better and will never stop trying to improve the product and the brand.

"It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll"

[maccaz]

Tony is a Genuine GC

100% agree, post wasn't about him.

 

both dohertys city gym and brunswick are the coolest gyms iv ever been to. packed with freaks, awesome atmosphere, real hearty.

 

had some idea of the back story but good post

[HarryB]

Tony Doherty is a huge reason the IFBB is what it is over here. By all accounts a really nice guy and very astute businessman.

[Pseudonym]

NWith the leases and staff/Team Xtreme wages fixed costs are at an all time high for "The Business" comprising of the NZIFBB & Xtreme Nutrition, with market trust in the brand and the sub brands at an all time low due to the numbers of people that have been hard done by over the years. So there is a real "need" to make things appear better than they are kind of like the 50 cent scenario of faking "Richness" - But you cannot fake it forever.

Very interesting post, Amit.

So just how shaky are things, do you think? As you say, on the surface things look great - more competitors than ever, and Xtreme opening up new stores everywhere (although your point about this being the only way to grow the brand puts a slightly different perspective on that).

Here's what struck me though... Are Xtreme and the NZIFBB legally linked companies? If they are, and the parent company finds itself in difficulties, could the NZIFBB also be trouble?

[amitnz]

https://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/individual/search?q=moe+moses&roleType=ALL&indEntityTypes=ALL&indDirStatus=ALL&indEntityStatusGroups=ALL&addressKeyword=&advancedPanel=false#results

 

 

https://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/5493461?backurl=%2Fcompanies%2Fapp%2Fui%2Fpages%2Fcompanies%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dnutrition%2Bdeal%26entityTypes%3DALL%26entityStatusGroups%3DALL%26incorpFrom%3D%26incorpTo%3D%26addressTypes%3DALL%26addressKeyword%3D%26start%3D0%26limit%3D15%26sf%3D%26sd%3D%26advancedPanel%3Dfalse%26mode%3Dstandard

[flex7]

So did Kenny and Teina O'Malley compete in an international contest when they were awarded pro cards? I thought it was just the NZ Nats?

[trainlikeafreak]

So did Kenny and Teina O'Malley compete in an international contest when they were awarded pro cards? I thought it was just the NZ Nats?

kenny did the amateur Arnold's in Ohio and placed top 10 in 2012/13 after the Nationals where teina won and no teina did not do an international comp that im aware of. He was the first to get his pro card from the new era where we have seen a bunch of them given out from memory.

[Blackburn]

You have to admit though NZFBB ( Moe ) does his show,s on the cheap,real cheap .Poor venues,pathetic prizes and those 2 dollar shop medals ,no Team Funding to the Worlds or International Events, Nothing for the Paying Public except a seat. Basicaly he cream,s it and gives nothing back of any value .The call this in the industry a Leach Promoter.

[Dinahlady]

Did anyone else see this guy calling out the IFBB in the states?

 

 

I was kinda surprised to hear that In the states it is just as bad. But it makes sense now as to why things might carry on here as they do. Obviously this guy is in some kind of crisis atm, but I don't doubt that a lot of the stories are at least part true. Smoke... fire... etc. Sorry for FB link couldnt find it on youtube.

[amitnz]

Sad to see really. I've heard a lot of the names this guy mentions with some sad backstories to go with them. Mafia style tactics but fortunately they dont work in NZ apart from within the groups.