Powerlifting - records, judges and credibility.

[Realtalk]

I spend abit of my free time on social media YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and the odd blog. I enjoy watching and listening to the strongest lifters in the world and also some others who aren't that strong but what they have to say I enjoy also. From doing this I see and read about alot of awesome stuff related to lifting which makes me happy. Unfortunatley I see some stuff that doesn't make me so happy, which brings me to my point of this thread....

The lilliebridges are the strongest family in the world - ernie snr, ernie jnr and eric. They are freaks and I'm not debating that. But in my opinion they along with the federations they compete in are disgracing the sport of powerlifting. No one is bigger than the sport. Accusations of unrecorded weigh ins, high squats, spotters touching the lifter and plates during the lift, lack of pause on bench press, no lock out during bench and just last night a pitiful lock out on a dead lift. Also moving feet on bench after start command... Didn't matter if you benching 200kg or 20kg bar if you move your feet after start command it's a no lift.

http://instagram.com/ernielilliebridgesr

Check out the top videos from the recent meet.

This is by no means "being disrespectful" as I was accused of on social media... And it has nothing to do with "well how much can you lift?" either, as was also put to me on social media when I commented in s respectful manner. As I said no one is bigger than the sport.

No wonder the lifters in IPF make a joke of other federations, and in cases like this I completely agree with them.

Anyone else been keeping up with this shit or stumbled across it? And what do you think?

Powerlifting or any kind of lifting is all about credibility. Matt rossiter first planted that in my head when he is so particular about his strong man events, movement standards and equipment used... So just rules in general. Weight on implements comes down to the gram! So there can be no debates afterwards and everyone and everything is equal as far as the implements go from previous years to current. And the records actually mean something and have credibility. That's the way it should be. Rules in powerlifting are not very fucking complicated so where is all this shit going wrong? Seems like there is just such a thirst for records. It's getting out of hand. Records don't mean anything to anyone who knows what's going on... If your telling the lady at the bus stop, well then it might sound impressive to her. But I doubt she even gives a shit of knows it was an illegal lift. I think its probably beyond fixing. What a fucking mess.

So with that being said... Is "IPF standard" is just a universal term for "doing it fucking properly"?

[maccaz]

Agree. Notice as well they often delete any kind of comment that isnt sucking them off. I asked polite as if they reckon ernies 400 squat was a bit high. Nek minnit my comments gone lol

It came up a few weeks ago when some other PL outed them. Lilliebridge response was not to comment on the shit lifts, but to attack the guy who brought it up on social media.

Lame because i did admire all of them and was real amped to see them at pro raw but now i just cringe at the videos they post

They are strong enough as it is, shouldnt have to do this lame shit

[maccaz]

Problem is their reply can always be "well how much do you lift" which is a dumb meat head thing to say because the you could be a vegetable in wheelchair and judge PL if you know rules. Dont need to be strong to see a bad lift or a good lift.

[Skeletor]

Yes I've been keeping tabs on this also. The squats I've seen were definitely high and I also saw the abuse one guy got for calling them out on it. Everybody's thinking the same thing but nobody's saying it.

[Boosting]

Lol that 320kg deadlift in vid was supposedly his opener too. Couldnt even lock it out. Pathetic.

[Pseudonym]

Blimey. The squat in particular...

 

 

On the bright side, Realtalk, you'll be able to add another few plates to each side now, knowing you only have to do half-squats!

[eLm0]

On the other side of the coin, I believe that the IPF standard is too strict and this is often overlooked.

 

Here is why, the IPF definition of a legal squat is

Upon receiving the chief referee’s signal, the lifter must bend the knees and lower the body until the top surface of the legs at the hip joint is lower than the top of the knees.

 

 

 

 

Everybody reading this will know that this is not the case, you will generally have to exceed this in order to get three white lights. The pic above illustrating this very description will most likely not pass in comp. This might not initially seem like a problem until you consider the fairness of it. 

It is not fair for a lifter to prepare for months for a meet and be red lighted despite meeting the definition or even have a squat pass in a local competition and fail at international level. 

 

This is not a rare, there were plenty of examples of not just borderline but DEEP squats red lighting at the IPF world champs over the past several years. Even Ed Coan's 1996 squat...

 

I'm not saying that Eric Lillibridge's squat is all good, it's not. 

But judging squat depth too strictly is equally as unfair as judging too loosely.

 

 

It's like England's goal at the last football world cup. It was in but disallowed and could have changed the entire tournament.

And like France's allowed illegal (handball) goal that led them to qualify. They were knocked out early anyway...

 

 

EVERYBODY just wants fair judging, but I wouldn't say the IPF standard is "just doing it properly"

[Realtalk]

Well in a sport where the judging/refereeing is done by the human eye and not high tech camera replays there will always be a margin of error. If there is doubt I believe the lifter should not get the benefit of the doubt.

Hmm can't compare those two one is the way sport goes, the other is the way a joke goes.

Just my opinion. Im not an IPF lifter either, just a powerlifter who wants to keep the sport true and credible.

[Skeletor]

I just watched Ernies vids and both the deadlift and squat were no lifts . Even the bench it looks like he didn't lock out. Passing those was unfair to the other lifters.

[eLm0]

Yeea I'm not saying everyone should start passing no lifts. I'm saying there is a standard on paper and the standard in real life.

There were no high tech replays in my world cup reference... It was judged by the human eye as well. (since then new tech has been introduced)

The problem is that these guys are so influential that judges are scared to red light em.

This is exactly relevant to the France comparison where it would be controversial to disallow a goal for an influential recent world champ...

My rant is that this problem is not specific to powerlifting. It is the influence of a competitor on the judging. The same way nobody will blink twice if a novice got red lighted on a legit squat, even though disallowing legit squats is equally unfair

So like I said - It's not correct to say IPF standard is the only way of doing it properly...

[soundsgood]

At the last meet they did prior to this weekend the federation it was sanctioned by withdraw its affiliation so none of the lifts counted. I would say all of the judges would have had their judging memberships put on suspension as well.

This is a positive step where by the board of a federation says sorry our judges got it wrong and we are going to overturn the results.

Pretty stink for all of the other lifters at the meet though.

[Realtalk]

All lifters in IPF are judged the same, regional competitor to international elite. That can't be said for this fed. All I want to see is fairness and consistency across the board. Let's get rid of this high rubbish and obvious no lifts first.

I hope the judging at the GPC worlds isn't a disgrace and is Judged well and judged fairly. If not I won't be going back.

[reddog]

haha yeah some the lifts that get past in those big comps in the states are disgrace, esp if its a named lifter its just white light city, then once they are called out its all "you couldn't even un-rack that weight".... 

 

seen it last yeah at GPA worlds, i swear i almost choked on my lunch on some of the deadlifts that past by the "headliners"  3/4 lock outs, bent knees, throwing the weight down no biggy straight whites, its a circus out there

 

another thing that pisses me off is people and there world records and claiming world champ status...faaark! un-less its all time it means nothing imo, was reading a thread the other day about this and if you take into consideration all the feds, age grounds, weight classes etc there could be as many as 88,000 powerlifting world champs at any given time lol

 

on the bright side we are pretty good here in nz, you would rarely see shit lifts given across all feds

 

this one was the funniest, check zahir 2nd deadlift, after missing his first for putting it down early he just rages, judges went in to full drop nuts mode on his 2nd after he puts a hole in the floor and still get 3 whites lol

 

[Pseudonym]

The problem is that these guys are so influential that judges are scared to red light em.

I can completely see how that happens. Nobody wants to be the guy that calls out a celebrity and gets it wrong.

 

Hypothetically, what if you had FIVE judges but retained the 3-light system? So you'd now have 2 judges on either side, but in order for that side's light to show red, both judges would have to signal red. Therefore judges would feel more comfortable giving reds because no-one would see, unless the other judge also gave a red. Does that make sense? I think it does...

[maccaz]

I can completely see how that happens. Nobody wants to be the guy that calls out a celebrity and gets it wrong.

 

Hypothetically, what if you had FIVE judges but retained the 3-light system? So you'd now have 2 judges on either side, but in order for that side's light to show red, both judges would have to signal red. Therefore judges would feel more comfortable giving reds because no-one would see, unless the other judge also gave a red. Does that make sense? I think it does...

i think then you have 5 people scared to red light the celebrity rather than just 3 lol

[Boosting]

That's going to change nothing Pseudonym. Theres already 3 referees who are all giving white lights for lifts that arent even close to passable from any angle. By your logic the current system with 3 refs already should work.

[Pseudonym]

By your logic the current system with 3 refs already should work.

Well not quite. Under the current system if a ref gives a red, everyone sees. Which is why they're scared to give a red, in case they're the only person to call it.

 

The difference is under my system, you'd have two refs per side, but only one light - so both would have to give red before that side's light showed red. Thus making refs less self-conscious about giving reds.

 

But hey, it was just a hypothetical.

[soundsgood]

If you're too scared to stand by your call you shouldn't be a ref

[teamfatboy]

If you don't like the refs' calls, there is a jury you can appeal to (in IPF, for National and International meets).  They can overturn a ruling. 

 

But it's always the lifter's job to meet the standards - if you don't think it's deep enough, it's probably not.  As long as the refs make an effort to be fair to all lifters, not just the whingers, and are applying the standard consistently, the only variable is the lifter's technique.

 

As for standards... http://liftbigeatbig.com/the-thin-line-between-champ-and-chump-squat-depth-in-powerlifting/

[Wookie]

The IPF has had its share of overly pedantic refs. On the positive side, no one gets gifted whites. The rules are not too strict but some go too far.

Heard very reliably that at one of the comps where a 275lb record was set the lifter was never weighed and actually weighed at least 308lbs. USA of course.

[HarryB]

You mean..... there's POLITICS in powerlifting... wtf?!?!?

[Bigken1985]

Zahir VS Lilliebridge is getting pretty juicy too ATM, like watching a drama lol