Adapting to excercises

[HarryB]

Bodybuilding aside, I think it's primarily BS for powerlifting.

Consistency and lifting heavy over time is what gets you strong - I'm pretty sure you'll be hard pushed to find a decent powerlifter who doesn't spend the majority of their time doing squat, bench, and deadlift?

Part of powerlifting is becoming an "expert" at your own S/B/D patterns... for example, If you've ever changed from squatting 1x per week to two or 3x you can tell that after a few months you feel way more "practiced" or used to your own squat - that is a good thing imo and is part of what can help you lift more weight. (not saying that squatting 3x pw is essential for good lifting either).

I agree with periodisation and most powerlifting programs that built into them. If you have a linear program that doesn't have much periodisation (e.g. 5x5) and you like it there are usually slight variations to the program like "advanced" versions that include going to 3x3 for several weeks. Or if you think linear isn't your jam why not try non-linear. I'm sure there are great PL's who swear to the death by either one.

But, If "changing" your program was the main factor in getting results for PL there would be 100s of strength programs that are recommended by top strength athletes - whereas actually you see only a handful (maybe <10 if that) that are highly recommended - surely that goes to show that it is the program itself (percentage of max/reps/volume/rest and periodisation within it) and not the exercises - as all of those programs are built around the big lifts and usually have limited/variable accessory suggestion. (but of course, what is popular is not "proof") And if I'm going to say that then I guess the fact that they do all suggest ancillary work shows it IS important (of course) - but I just think to a lesser degree than the consistent practice and improvement of your main lifts themselves.

That's not to say that you won't get results for, if example, you decide to re-instate an awesome exercise/focus on a body part that you might have forgotten about (e.g, started doing abs more, or hamstrings more, or more lockouts), which might help your lifts. Sometimes its impossible to fit EVERY accessory that might be helpful into your week with maximum enthusiasm - I definitely find myself cycling my "focus" every once in a while if I haven't been doing much hamstring work, or ab work, or unilateral work, because I haven't had enough time to fit it in - so yeah you might change your PRIORITY. Especially if you are having niggles or injuries and/or you identify weaknesses that could be addressed (physical weaknesses - not aesthetic ones lol) .

But I don't see how the very act of changing the variation of the exact same exercise would make any difference to strength gain (e.g. doing cable fly instead of dumbell fly).

I think it's good to change things to maybe explore variations, but if you find a variation that you really like, really works well for your levers and you enjoy it then I think you should stick to it rather than changing it just to feel like you are "shocking" or "destroying" your body.

Flyes and cable crossover whilst working the same body part in a similar fashion are not the same. There is no peak contraction in a fly and the resistance isn't constant like it is with cables. Obviously this is just using that one example but there are plenty. Hence switching from one to the other

[Dinahlady]

Flyes and cable crossover whilst working the same body part in a similar fashion are not the same. There is no peak contraction in a fly and the resistance isn't constant like it is with cables. Obviously this is just using that one example but there are plenty. Hence switching from one to the other

 

That might make a big difference for bodybuilding/muscle growth - but how would it actually translate to total strength in a bench 1RM between one variation to another. Maybe in a vacuum - but surely it's just minutiae compared to other things people could be putting their time and energy thinking about... 

 

When I said "exact same exercise" I meant as opposed to a "class" of exercises you might have previously been missing out on (maybe because you were too busy worrying about what type of fly to do    )  that may be really beneficial, for example lockout work, or speed work. When you add that in - yes that is probably going to give you some strength gains. But changing from a dumbell to cable fly? 

 

A lot of my point is that people tend to highly stress over tiny details. It only takes common sense to work out that BIG things are total cals, training consistently (progressive overload), and recovery (which is facilitated by good periodisation/rest and sleep all according to your personal prefs), and form (including set up, flexibility/mobility). 

 

Most of the time people have things to improve on in those areas, which is probably the greatest factor as to why they aren't as strong as they could be - not because they didn't "change up" their assistance work from dumbell fly to cable fly...

 

Not that there isn't any point in thinking about exercise selection at all (refer to my last post lol). 

It's kind of like someone whose GOAL is to lose weight worrying about whether they should eat white rice or brown, or olive oil v.s coconut oil, when they are still eating 500 cals above their maintenance... 

[Riccardo]

while there is a difference between cable flys and dumb bell flys it has to do with where tension is greatest across the strength curve, something you can easily account for in your programming. If you're covering your bases so to speak, then constantly chopping and changing exercises is counter productive and unnecessary for either strength or physique athletes. You cant trick your body into anything, its cause and effect, it responds to a stimulus, it doesn't matter which exercise that stimulus comes from.  

[HarryB]

while there is a difference between cable flys and dumb bell flys it has to do with where tension is greatest across the strength curve, something you can easily account for in your programming. If you're covering your bases so to speak, then constantly chopping and changing exercises is counter productive and unnecessary for either strength or physique athletes. You cant trick your body into anything, its cause and effect, it responds to a stimulus, it doesn't matter which exercise that stimulus comes from.

Yeah and you cover your bases by alternating and changing your exercises from time to time

[Skeletor]

Nice posts guys. Thanks for that. Guess I'll see how I run doing this. Not really looking to change the main exercise as such more just variations of the main excercise for a different stimulus much like Westside style or rep/weight ranges.

[Riccardo]

Yeah and you cover your bases by alternating and changing your exercises from time to time

 I don't think anyone would argue against varying exercise selection to target areas for development but there are not so many bases to warrant changing that often, "From time to time" being the key point I think. I quite often see people "confusing their muscles"  and chopping/changing so much that they never really master a particular exercise or get much out of it because they soon become impatient and decide its not working because they've "adapted" to an exercise lol  :think:

[maccaz]

 I don't think anyone would argue against varying exercise selection to target areas for development but there are not so many bases to warrant changing that often, "From time to time" being the key point I think. I quite often see people "confusing their muscles"  and chopping/changing so much that they never really master a particular exercise or get much out of it because they soon become impatient and decide its not working because they've "adapted" to an exercise lol  :think:

 

i agree with this also just in my experience, getting good (not particular good even, but better) at one movement (just happens to be sq,bench,dead for my goals) has caused better growth eg:

 

back in the day for legs i would do something like

1. leg press or squat

2. leg ext

3. hamstring curl

 

now i do

1. squat

 

without a doubt i have grown a lot more from just squatting, because i focus on it, get better at it, do it often, use intensity and volume as the the variety, rather than different exercises for variety

 

 

my arms are also much bigger than they have ever been and i hardly ever do arms, once a month if that, but bench 3x a week most weeks.

 

delts are bigger and i dont do side raises or anything and barely even ohp, just bench.

 

so i haven't "shocked/confused" my muscles by throwing in any random exercises and they keep growing, so in my opinion going off my own experience it is not necessary to "shock" them

[HarryB]

I also don't agree that you're shocking anything by constantly changing exercises. But hey I do something different every time I train

[Pseudonym]

I quite often see people "confusing their muscles"  and chopping/changing so much that they never really master a particular exercise or get much out of it because they soon become impatient and decide its not working because they've "adapted" to an exercise lol  :think:

But as you say, it's all about stimulus, and it doesn't matter what exercise that stimulus comes from... So assuming a person is equally proficient in both exercise A and exercise B, shouldn't chopping/changing between the two make no difference either way?

[HarryB]

But as you say, it's all about stimulus, and it doesn't matter what exercise that stimulus comes from... So assuming a person is equally proficient in both exercise A and exercise B, shouldn't chopping/changing between the two make no difference either way?

This is kind is how I think. Once you know how to "feel" a muscle working you just do what you want to on any given day.

[Riccardo]

yeah there is definitely redundancy in exercise selection, the problem is that different exercises require different levels of competency in terms of mobility, neural adaptation, stabilising muscle activation etc. It takes a little while to become completely proficient at an exercise finding the subtle variations that allow you to get the most out of it, if you have never done the movement before or it's been some time it often takes a while to learn the or re-learn the exercise, in grain the different motor patterns associated with the movement etc. there is always carry over but never 100% in terms of your proficiency in performing the movement. There is a difference between the movement itself and the stimulus it creates in your targeted muscle. They do however go hand in hand in the sense that being good at the movement allows you to elicit a greater stimulus in the muscle. If you go back to an exercise after not doing it for a while, you're never as strong or proficient at that movement initially.

However another important point is that redundancy quite often is not between exercises like dumb bell flys and cable flys as Harry pointed out but is often between very different exercises eg bench press and skull crusher. Clearly the bench press conveys other benefits beyond tricep development so you're not gonna ditch it in favour of the skull crusher.