NZIFBB Counties Manukau Classic

[Pseudonym]

Hey Superpump - thanks for posting those pics, and welcome to Gymnation.

 

Yeah, if the pics are anything to go by, Carl (blue trunks) does look quite smooth. As for the other two, I'm not sure. The tall guy has better arms and legs, but Jordan has the better back. I wouldn't want to call it based solely on what I see here, that's for sure.

[Realtalk]

Blue trunks trainer is good mates with the judges... Will be why he won. So corrupt.

[superpump]

Jordan had excellent conditioning so did Craig actually look at the glute hams detail I thought Carl had a good shape and v taper but his condition was far behind Jordan and Craigs.  I dunno is conditioning still important in bodybuilding? Im sure from the comps ive been to overseas you wouldnt even get a callout if you turn up without conditioning.

[HarryB]

The need for condition appears to be subject to a few intangibles

[trainlikeafreak]

Craig had good conditioning?? I think he was way off. If he wasn't so watery he would have easily taken the show. Tbh Jordan was the only bodybuilder in shape and that's why I say I had him first. I think the importance of good legs is getting less and less going by some of the decisions over the years

[HarryB]

Craig had good conditioning?? I think he was way off. If he wasn't so watery he would have easily taken the show. Tbh Jordan was the only bodybuilder in shape and that's why I say I had him first. I think the importance of good legs is getting less and less going by some of the decisions over the years

Well I guess when you have bodybuilders as judges their judging is subjective and biased toward how they see their physique. So... applying that logic... none of the judges would have legs... and seeing as how pretty much just one guy decides who wins what... well you get what I'm saying.

[superpump]

Yeah I would have to agree with trainlikeafreaks comment that Craig would have won that show but the water spoiled his definition. On the day (coz you cant judge a comp from photos)  I had Jordan first he had the best conditioning and a nice balanced physique Craig was second good size and shape just too watery and Carl third. But it was a good line up and a pretty close overall. Pretty tough to judge as each had their merits in different ways.

[superpump]

To change the topic because Harryb keeps digging at it haha...Unfortunately politics in bodybuilding exists. IMO it screws up the sport destroys its credibility and messes with the athletes who are sometimes left shrugging there delts as to what happened and cant even get the judges to justify their reasoning for the decision.

The athletes should be judged only against the criteria that determines the winner. Bodybuilding actually does have a good judging structure that works as long as it is followed to the letter.

Yes its always going to be subjective but when its judged properly and no other 'outside factors' are brought into the equation 9 times out of ten the right person is left holding the winning trophy.

I would like to see more transparency in the judging so the rounds are judged and the score cards for each round are made public or at least available to be seen by request so we can see where athletes scored highly or poorly in each round (which also would provide good feedback for the athletes) and how they came to their decisions rather than everyone left guessing.

[HarryB]

Absolutely... I'm not really digging ha ha ha we all know exactly how it works. Transparency would be awesome.

[Rebel101]

You guys are all hinting on the reasons that results in NZIFBB are as they are but let's get more specific, NZIFBB is a dictatorship and in its current form will remain a dictatorship and the results biased towards the desires of the dictator. And yes the glass ceiling exists so that you cannot get beyond this.

However to get better results you have to have a consensus decision process that is upheld by a strong committee environment. Both NABBA and NABBA-WFF have this capability.

Although we hate committees because they are hard work, they do have their benefits and you have to get involved.

[HarryB]

You guys are all hinting on the reasons that results in NZIFBB are as they are but let's get more specific, NZIFBB is a dictatorship and in its current form will remain a dictatorship and the results biased towards the desires of the dictator. And yes the glass ceiling exists so that you cannot get beyond this.

However to get better results you have to have a consensus decision process that is upheld by a strong committee environment. Both NABBA and NABBA-WFF have this capability.

Although we hate committees because they are hard work, they do have their benefits and you have to get involved.

Also just as biased

[Rebel101]

Also just as biased

No not biased this is how things are. When one person alone sets the standards this is a dictatorship.

When a committee sets the standards through due process then this provides for moderation of opinion as each committee has the ability to excercise their voice as an individual. I know this is idealism but as a person who believes in the "glass half full" concept I would like to think people act on their own without bribery or corruption. Personally it is an ideal I would try to uphold and I would like to think most others will too.

Certainly all those here who have viewed the results as unjust would like to think that judging was fairly applied and not a consequence of a dictated view.

[trainlikeafreak]

I've heard stories from people high up in both Feds so trying to argue the legitimacy of one fed over the other is pointless. I choose to compete in the Nzifbb and I encourage my clients to do so because I think it's the best for several reasons.. First of all it's the gateway to the ifbb (obviously). It probably offers the most opportunities internationally with the Arnold classics etc and I think they are sending people to the words this year?? I think it has the MAJORITY of the best athletes aswell. In saying this I just love bodybuilding and if I was to compete in a diff fed id enjoy it just as much. Probably not naba tho. Just my 2c

[HarryB]

No not biased this is how things are. When one person alone sets the standards this is a dictatorship.

When a committee sets the standards through due process then this provides for moderation of opinion as each committee has the ability to excercise their voice as an individual. I know this is idealism but as a person who believes in the "glass half full" concept I would like to think people act on their own without bribery or corruption. Personally it is an ideal I would try to uphold and I would like to think most others will too.

Certainly all those here who have viewed the results as unjust would like to think that judging was fairly applied and not a consequence of a dictated view.

Due process ha ha ha I competed with nzfbb when it was a committee and Nabba too. Who cares anyway? The sport is too subjective to spend too much time stressing about. Just set personal goals and achieve them. If you want concrete then go do powerlifting

[Rebel101]

Due process ha ha ha I competed with nzfbb when it was a committee and Nabba too. Who cares anyway? The sport is too subjective to spend too much time stressing about. Just set personal goals and achieve them. If you want concrete then go do powerlifting

You are absolutely correct set your goals and go for them.

But everyone who cares about fair results as this thread demonstrates.

[maccaz]

without knowing a huge amount iv always thought if you get out of the mindset that it is a sport and should be judged fairly like a sport then its more 

 

more like an art competition really, different judge has different taste even if they supposed to look for specific criteria they are still gonna subconsciously find the physique that matches their taste best? maybe not even necessarily corrupt in some cases just they like a particular look or trait so automatically gonna favour it, even if the next judge has a different opinion and us looking at photos have an even different opinion

 

more like art competition than sport, judging wise, just happens to require sport related activities to prepare for the competition

[HarryB]

It's too subjective that's the problem. Everyone wants to be competitive and everyone wants to be judged fairly. But what is fair to one isn't to another. Yes there are criteria but do you run your life around criteria or do you create the physique you want?

It's like a beauty pageant. At the smaller shows guys can do really well with the right work ethic attitude and everything else. At the higher levels if you don't have the right structure or look or whatever... then see ya later.

[Cameron_R]

More like figure skating at the Olympics back in the East V West old days.

Romania is always gonna give higher points to the East German than to those capitalist pigs from Canada