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working out all day vs an hour

James2133

By James2133
in Bodybuilding & aesthetics

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FUBU Member

FUBU

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:doh: 

Facts can be backed up by evidence and reasoning. Please provide yours, ideally with a discussion of the metabolic pathways which cortisol would take to 'eat away at muscle' and other mechanisms the body has in place to prevent such muscle wastage. 

^That will actually be good research/study for your PT course. 

Anecdotally, when training for PLing my sessions would regularly be 1.5-2 hours long. I also run for over an hour at least once most weeks. My muscles seem to be doing just fine  :think:

I'm not being Mr. Know it all, if that's what you think. I'm just stating that there's a pattern on a lot of these sites that I visit and I always recall seeing cortisol as something that eats away at muscle. Like the post, I made this morning. It was written by Dr. Natasha, are you saying a Dr. is wrong? I always buy fitness magazines and they always seem to suggest 45mins is a good amount of time for a gym workout.

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Riccardo
Riccardo

Hate to burst your bubble FUBU but doctors quite often know very little when it comes to exercise physiology, so I'm telling you, yes she is wrong. Short term aberrations in cortisol do not eat

Riccardo
Riccardo

Cot damn, why is it people think that just because they read an article on the net it makes it true? You do realise any moron with an Internet connection can make up some bullshit like pancakes

Phedder
Phedder

You don't need big legs or much muscle mass at all to run marathons. What you do need is very efficient muscles, with a high mitochondrial density and plenty of storage for glycogen. Glycogen is

maccaz Veteran member

maccaz

Posted
Posted

I'm not being Mr. Know it all, if that's what you think. I'm just stating that there's a pattern on a lot of these sites that I visit and I always recall seeing cortisol as something that eats away at muscle. Like the post, I made this morning. It was written by Dr. Natasha, are you saying a Dr. is wrong? I always buy fitness magazine and they always seem to suggest 45mins is a good amount of time for a gym workout.

 

case closed

 

edit: thats a bit harsh

 

fitness magazines are often broscience

 

trial and error best way to go, find out for yourself, but i would say you will find you keep having good results training longer than 45 minutes.

 

Dr doesnt necessarily mean correct.. often not.

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

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Hate to burst your bubble FUBU but doctors quite often know very little when it comes to exercise physiology, so I'm telling you, yes she is wrong. Short term aberrations in cortisol do not eat away at muscle, case closed. I really can't be bothered quoting all the relevant literature so you'll have to take my word for it. Men's health is far from a bastion of good science, reasoned thought and facts. Its the same old regurgitated garbage i suggest you save your money.

 

Short term fluctuations in cortisol serve to mobilise fuel stores amongst other functions, its only when cortisol levels are chronically elevated that they can have a deleterious effect on body composition. we are talking long long periods of time, not a few hours.

 

@ Tom, been super busy with work bro and my workouts have been sporadic and more about maintenance than really pushing the limits. But things are settling down and so I'm working towards some solid gains this year. starting to make some solid strength gains since I'm training balls to the wall again. I pulled 272.5 at 93kg and am sitting at 105kg currently, so with some good training I think I should be good for closer to 300 this year some time. would also like to cut down later in the year and get into single digits. Was playing footy last year so all that cardio didn't help haha. 

 

Pseudo,

 

While there is some overlap, for the most part you can differentiate those pathways based on the stimulus that activates them.

 

Muscle damage results in hypertrophy due to small micro tears, or even larger tears, that initiate an immune response similar to the one that occurs during infection. Inflammation is a key mediator of hypertrophy, something I think most people overlook. Heavy eccentric loading is great for causing myotrauma like this.

 

Mechanical tension causes hypertrophy through a process called mechanotransduction. Mechanoreceptors in the cell sense both active and passive tension (contraction and stretching respectively), they then turn this information into a chemical signal that promote anabolism.

 

Lastly Metabolic stress occurs through the build up of by products of muscle cell metabolism. exercise that relies heavily on the anaerobic glycolytic system results in the build up of lactate, hydrogen ions, phosphate etc. Its thought that these molecules signal hypertrophy. metabolic stress also occurs when the muscle becomes hypoxic secondary to ischaemia (lack of blood flow), cell swelling/oedema occlude the blood vessels reducing blood flow. So you can see that anaerobic exercise and the "pump" can help stimulate this pathway.

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maccaz Veteran member

maccaz

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One of the bros in the hood I know, went to jail for seven years, went in skinny

Came out bout a year ago.  Swole as a MOFO lol...any correlation there?

i dont see how that happens considering the shitty food etc, think the meals are based on those bogus "rdi" on packets of stuff etc.

guess if your familys sending money etc you could just buy more food

 

edit: guess same as america, kali muscle came out huge, reckons diet was tuna and ramen 

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HarryB Veteran member

HarryB

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I don't know. I know a few guys who've come out of jail jacked. Adapting to training all day every day. Heck in high school I bench pressed almost every single day and could bench 140k when I was 16. Wish I could do that now. I guess it's just forcing your body to adapt :/ ????

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Demo New member

Demo

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hi first timer long time reader. I believe that the buff guys from jail do stand ova for extra protein the reason why they are jacked also working out all day is just sore. Proper gains are achieved from training day in day out not all day

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Pseudonym Veteran member

Pseudonym

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[...awesomeness...]

Cheers Riccardo! That's the sort of answer I was looking for. Very interesting.

 

So would the ideal workout involve all three pathways? Because I don't think I've seen too many workouts that would tick each of the boxes (at least not to a significant degree). In some ways they're almost mutually exclusive - ie, muscle damage occurs more in a heavy weight/low rep environment, whereas metabolic stress sounds like it's more the light weight/high rep stuff.

 

 

hi first timer long time reader.

:wave:

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FUBU Member

FUBU

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^These dudes know what's up, fark they crack me up! And they back up everything I mentioned in my previous posts, as well.

 

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/losing-muscle-cortisol.html

 

^Another link on cortisol above.

 

 

@Riccardo,

 

Can you tell me, what is the causation between testosterone levels and cortisol levels. My understanding is that they are the opposite, is this not true? Testosterone is known to build muscle and cortisol to lose muscle. Testosterone levels start declining after about 45-60min into an intense weight lifting session and that's when cortisol levels start to rise. I remember my trainer telling me that the sore painful feelings that we feel after a workout are the after-effects of cortisol. Which is why you must always eat enough protein, healthy carbs, and fats, to combat the full-on triggers of cortisol, so that those sore painful feelings can reduce quicker. To simplify, the painful feelings that you feel after an intense workout are the muscles way of dealing with stress and that stress is cortisol, is it not?

 

I always have an open mind to relearning, but, you haven't really provided me with enough information. If you can, then I'll happily adjust my memory to relearn it your way. I just need a little more convincing and probably a hammer to the head or scrotum, if I find that I have been misled for all this time.

 

Yeah, yeah, I'm a grumbling hoggarts farm face, I know.

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ngapuhi strong Senior member

ngapuhi strong

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^These dudes know what's up, fark they crack me up! And they back up everything I mentioned in my previous posts, as well.

 

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/losing-muscle-cortisol.html

 

^Another link on cortisol above.

 

 

@Riccardo,

 

Can you tell me, what is the causation between testosterone levels and cortisol levels. My understanding is that they are the opposite, is this not true? Testosterone is known to build muscle and cortisol to lose muscle. Testosterone levels start declining after about 45-60min into an intense weight lifting sessions and that's when cortisol levels start to rise. I remember my trainer telling me that the sore painful feelings that we feel after a workout are the after-effects of cortisol. Which is why you must always eat enough protein, healthy carbs, and fats, to combat the full-on triggers of cortisol, so that those sore painful feelings can reduce quicker. To simplify, the painful feelings that you feel after an intense workout are the muscles way of dealing with stress and that stress is cortisol, is it not?

 

I always have an open mind to relearning, but, you haven't really provided me with enough information. If you can, then I'll happily adjust my memory to relearn it your way. I just need a little more convincing and probably a hammer to the head or scrotum, if I find that I have been misled for all this time.

 

Yeah, yeah, I'm a grumbling hoggarts farm face, I know.

bet you follow swift and frezzema too, they know everything dont listen to tthe guys here who have proper scientific knowledge, we all know followers on face book means you know everything

:roll:

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

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The problem here fubu is that people try to oversimplify things which leads to confusion. I appreciate that simplification is necessary in order to succinctly explain relatively complex physiological systems, however often it leads to further confusion and misinformation.

While cortisol and testosterone generally have a lot of opposite effects they aren't mutually exclusive in the context of exercise and muscle building. its not a matter of testosterone good cortisol bad. Both have a role to play, cortisol is important in mediating the inflammatory response, mobilising fuel stores and regulating blood pressure. Testosterone signals protein synthesis, again mobilises fuel stores and performs various other functions. The take home message is don't worry about cortisol or testosterone, exercise some common sense. There is some debate as to how exactly each of these hormones contribute to training adaptations anyway.

What we do know is that testosterone helps muscle to grow and heavy multijoint exercises increase testosterone, do those. Cortisol when elevated for long periods of time may cause unfavourable changes in body composition, so, manage your stress levels, get enough sleep and eat enough calories. Obviously don't exercise excessively but an hour here or there is not going to make you waste away, certainly there is no magic 60min mark where all of a sudden you switch from building muscle to withering away.

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

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I think it's down to the much larger volume of muscle recruited. Greater neural input required etc. never actually looked into it tbh!

Pseudo, ideally yeah, I don't think lifting heavy and lifting for the pump are mutually exclusive. There are some programs that incorporate, power days, strength days hypertrophy days, but I guess this links in with what was said in the what can bbers learn from plifters generally most bodybuilder could do with incorporating more heavy work.

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