working out all day vs an hour

[tyreguy]

The man himself?

[FUBU]

I already explained in my original post why working out all day long is not a good idea and it didn't really have anything to do with cortisol.

As for providing evidence as to why take a read of this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3371329/

To summarise: acute fluctuations in testosterone and GH only exhibit a weak correlation with lean body mass or fiber cross sectional area, secondly cortisol actually shows a stronger positive correlation with LBM and fiber CSA than either GH or testosterone!

Cortisol as I mentioned earlier is important in modulating inflammation and when elevated during exercise 'is probably just an indicator that you've had a good training session rather than signalling the start of muscle wasting' - Layne Norton.

You seem to be a very intelligent person. I did read the link you posted and I simply don't understand anything it said, at all. I can now see what you mean about 'complex physiological systems.' 

 

However, though. When  I was running marathons 2 years ago. I was really lean. I had a bigger upper body, compared to my lower body. Whilst running marathons I was still in the gym building muscle and eating a diet that consisted of about 8000cal a day. Back then I weighed, fluctuated, between 78-81kgs. I was running 4-5 days a week and the duration of each run was 2hrs. Now that I don't run marathons and only lift iron, I now weigh 97-100kgs, eating only about 6000cal a day.  My lower legs have put on mass, as well as my upper body. How do you explain why I had a bigger upper body, compared to my lower body? Obviously when your running all the time, you use your legs and not much the upper body. If cortisol has nothing to do with this, then why were my legs small?

[Phedder]

 

 

However, though. When  I was running marathons 2 years ago. I was really lean. I had a bigger upper body, compared to my lower body. Whilst running marathons I was still in the gym building muscle and eating a diet that consisted of about 8000cal a day. Back then I weighed, fluctuated, between 78-81kgs. I was running 4-5 days a week and the duration of each run was 2hrs. Now that I don't run marathons and only lift iron, I now weigh 97-100kgs, eating only about 6000cal a day.  My lower legs have put on mass, as well as my upper body. How do you explain why I had a bigger upper body, compared to my lower body? Obviously when your running all the time, you use your legs and not much the upper body. If cortisol has nothing to do with this, then why were my legs small?

You don't need big legs or much muscle mass at all to run marathons. What you do need is very efficient muscles, with a high mitochondrial density and plenty of storage for glycogen. Glycogen is your fuel, the mitochondria is how you oxidize/burn that fuel to get the energy required to sustain the running. Smaller more efficient legs beat big strong legs any day when it comes to running. 

I'm guessing you trained your upper body with weights a lot more than you did your lower body? So your upper body gained the size and strength that resistance training develops, and your legs stayed smaller but much more efficient for all the running you did. 

[Kalidane]

As simple as that ^^

[FUBU]

You don't need big legs or much muscle mass at all to run marathons

This is the point I was trying to make. Running marathons gave me skinny legs with no decent muscle in the calves. What I was trying to say is, running for long periods caused pain in my calves and upper legs the next day. I believe the pain I was feeling were the after-effects of cortisol, dealing with the stress I put on my legs the previous day. Hence, this is why I also believe my legs were never growing, because I was over training.

 

 I dedicated 1 day a week for working my legs at gym. Remember my calories were higher too. 8000cal a day during my marathon years. Going back to the question James asked about training all day. How the hell will he grow? Especially when I was only training for about 3 hours a day (1 hour training at the gym, then a 2 hour run straight after workout). I trained 5 days a week (5 days at gym and only 4 days running) and 2 days off to recover.

 

Although. I must say, even though I had small legs, I did have a really lean physique. Except for the scrawny legs.

[maccaz]

This is the point I was trying to make. Running marathons gave me skinny legs with no decent muscle in the calves. What I was trying to say is, running for long periods caused pain in my calves and upper legs the next day. I believe the pain I was feeling were the after-effects of cortisol, dealing with the stress I put on my legs the previous day. Hence, this is why I also believe my legs were never growing, because I was over training.

I dedicated 1 day a week for working my legs at gym. Remember my calories were higher too. 8000cal a day during my marathon years. Going back to the question James asked about training all day. How the hell will he grow? Especially when I was only training for about 3 hours a day (1 hour training at the gym, then a 2 hour run straight after workout). I trained 5 days a week (5 days at gym and only 4 days running) and 2 days off to recover.

Although. I must say, even though I had small legs, I did have a really lean physique. Except for the scrawny legs.

Riccardo will know but isnt cortisol systemic eg its not just hanging around in your legs because you use them most ?overtraining would make whole body not grow if it was cortisol related ?

[yeelang]

there's lots of benefits for multi set training during the day. where it's more difficult is when you are looking for adaptions through metabolic damage and multi-sets become a requirement, however then it's an issue of intensity and it's much harder to reach the necessary intensity with metabolic damage if you are looking at single sets vs multi sets... just like you wouldn't get a marathon runner to split his training into 3/4 runs because the functional response required is on endurance.

 

the main benefit of training through the day as opposed to acutely is that growth factors that aren't in abundance drain, such as arachidonic acid. The other issue is that general as sets progress you start to have diminishing returns or you push past the point of optimum training vs reward. the above assumes that workouts have the same intensity etc and everything else is equal

 

most of the downsides of longer training sessions isn't cortisol it's AMPK which becomes more active in longer workouts/cardio sessions breaks down muscle and inhibits camP. you can't build muscle without fluctuations in cortisol, and cortisol is just part of life, where cortisol is becomes a factor is when it's elevated for longer periods of time due to stress, lack of sleep etc, but acute changes through training are not the game changer.

[FUBU]

there's lots of benefits for multi set training during the day. where it's more difficult is when you are looking for adaptions through metabolic damage and multi-sets become a requirement, however then it's an issue of intensity and it's much harder to reach the necessary intensity with metabolic damage if you are looking at single sets vs multi sets... just like you wouldn't get a marathon runner to split his training into 3/4 runs because the functional response required is on endurance.

 

the main benefit of training through the day as opposed to acutely is that growth factors that aren't in abundance drain, such as arachidonic acid. The other issue is that general as sets progress you start to have diminishing returns or you push past the point of optimum training vs reward. the above assumes that workouts have the same intensity etc and everything else is equal

 

most of the downsides of longer training sessions isn't cortisol it's AMPK which becomes more active in longer workouts/cardio sessions breaks down muscle and inhibits camP. you can't build muscle without fluctuations in cortisol, and cortisol is just part of life, where cortisol is becomes a factor is when it's elevated for longer periods of time due to stress, lack of sleep etc, but acute changes through training are not the game changer.

This makes a lot of sense to me and I finally get the picture that Riccardo was trying to relay back to me. Riccardo said it in a complicated and confusing way that I simply couldn't understand. I've done research on what you said, and you know what, now you have changed my way of thinking in regards to cortisol. Thank you very much, Yeelang.

[FUBU]

Hey Yeelang,

 

http://www.metaboliceffect.com/metabolic-damage-symptoms/

 

I was reading more on the phrase, 'metabolic damage' that gets thrown around here a lot. I found out that it has other names such as, neuroendocrineimmune dysfunction, hypothyroid, and adrenal fatigue. I thought I may of had adrenal fatigue, now I realize that I don't.

 

I definitely did not have metabolic damage. Like I said my calories were consistently high and I was losing weight and feeling good, despite having sore legs after a run. So metabolic damage had nothing to do with my training regime. 

 

Some of the symptoms of metabolic damage are:

 

• You can’t lose weight and may even be gaining weight despite no change in diet.
• Your body is taking on a puffy/waterlogged look.
• You are suffering depression.
• You have multiple digestive complaints.
• You may be dealing with hypothyroid symptoms of dry skin, itchy scalp, and slow thinking.
• You are exhausted and have zero motivation.
• Your libido is gone.
• Your menses is completely gone or irregular.
• You may be feeling light headed.
• You may be having new sensitivity to bright lights.
• You may have developed multiple food intolerances.

[yeelang]

wrong type of metabolic damage, talking about training metabolic damage

 

edit: metabolic stress

[FUBU]

wrong type of metabolic damage, talking about training metabolic damage

Can you give me some info on it. I want to know what it's all about.

[Riccardo]

Says he understands it now, thinks metabolic damage means "adrenal fatigue" lol FUBU problem is you only understand what you want to.

[FUBU]

Says he understands it now, thinks metabolic damage means "adrenal fatigue" lol FUBU problem is you only understand what you want to.

LOL. Nah, I'm open to learning. Can you tell me what it means? Yeelang's gone to sleep.

[Pseudonym]

FUBU, I asked Riccardo that same question earlier in the topic. Here's his reply:

Lastly Metabolic stress occurs through the build up of by products of muscle cell metabolism. exercise that relies heavily on the anaerobic glycolytic system results in the build up of lactate, hydrogen ions, phosphate etc. Its thought that these molecules signal hypertrophy. metabolic stress also occurs when the muscle becomes hypoxic secondary to ischaemia (lack of blood flow), cell swelling/oedema occlude the blood vessels reducing blood flow. So you can see that anaerobic exercise and the "pump" can help stimulate this pathway.

So in layman's terms, metabolic stress is triggered by the different chemicals that get produced during weight training.