What bodybuilders can learn from powerlifting

[yeelang]

powerlifters benefit more from bodybuilder workouts than vise versa, strength specificity isn't the keygoal for a bber.

 

periodization isn't a powerliftingtechnique it's a training technique most high level natural bodybuilders will have some form of periodization.

 

it's better to build a size base than a strength base first. Those bbers you mention who did powerlifting, they were in the gym prior getting big.

 

you should be more specifiic about 'bodybuilding' training and 'powerlifting training' 15plate legpress for marginal reps is not bodybuilding. Drop sets, supersets, metabolic overload in general is bodybuilding.

 

Where powerlifting is most succesful is when a novice movies to intermediate. Once simply going into the gym and crushing it moves outside what is ideal for our general adaptation syndrome, the novice will stall. After months or years of stagnation the novice tries a powelifting program and they start to make strength progress more optimally.

 

It's not powerlifting that is successful it's periodization.

[Realtalk]

How many high level natural bodybuilders do you know? I don't know any truthful ones.

Size base/strength base... You can build both is what I'm saying which is most beneficial. I didn't mention any bodybuilders doing "powerlifting" I mentioned them doing compound movenrnts and getting strong. There is a difference.

More specific... I'm just posting what I see. This is from national level competitors.

Like I said no offence br0.

[HarryB]

I'd be offended but you're both right.

[yeelang]

How many high level natural bodybuilders do you know? I don't know any truthful ones.

Size base/strength base... You can build both is what I'm saying which is most beneficial. I didn't mention any bodybuilders doing "powerlifting" I mentioned them doing compound movenrnts and getting strong. There is a difference.

More specific... I'm just posting what I see. This is from national level competitors.

Like I said no offence br0.

I'm not offended, it's a constructive discusion.

 

natural or not is redundant, they are still periodizing their training.

 

specificity in a lift is more adventagous after the muscle has reached its optimal size.

 

I was responding to someone else who mentioned pros starting out with powerlifting.

 

compound lifts are great, not arguing benefits of compound lifts.

[HarryB]

Cept deadlifts. They're a complete waste of time.

[ngapuhi strong]

Cept deadlifts. They're a complete waste of time.

why?

 

as a bb in his 30's i feel theneed to try be as smart as i can when it comes to my lifting, i have no were near the knowledge of some you guys but i read i listen to those that been playing the game longer and every thing i do in the gym i do for a reason,

ill ask guys about a lift there doing why they do it , what it targets and lot of time i get back ' cause my trainer told me to' lol

 

i think u have to be smart at my age, if i go throwing around heavy arse weights without purpose my joints play up something wicked for days,

 

i started with the big three, learning tech first, and got advice on squat and dead from one nz's top power lifters, wont take bench advice from power lifters ,

once i had the big three down then i introd other lifts and have slowly added volume over time,

i write every thing down that i do in gym, i think realtalk said something in another post about knowing u getting stronger without doing 1rms by weather you can do x weight for more reps, i always follow this, 

every work out stars with a heavy compound lift now then get into the isolation work after that, my main foucs is always form and limiting momentum and full range of movement (something i think a few power lifters could learn from bb's) . part the problem i see with bodybuilders at my gym is they are not willing to leave there ego at the door, they say they want to get big but then when they train they always trying to lift more then they can, something you dont see in real big bodybuilders,

[HarryB]

why?

as a bb in his 30's i feel theneed to try be as smart as i can when it comes to my lifting, i have no were near the knowledge of some you guys but i read i listen to those that been playing the game longer and every thing i do in the gym i do for a reason,

ill ask guys about a lift there doing why they do it , what it targets and lot of time i get back ' cause my trainer told me to' lol

i think u have to be smart at my age, if i go throwing around heavy arse weights without purpose my joints play up something wicked for days,

i started with the big three, learning tech first, and got advice on squat and dead from one nz's top power lifters, wont take bench advice from power lifters ,

once i had the big three down then i introd other lifts and have slowly added volume over time,

i write every thing down that i do in gym, i think realtalk said something in another post about knowing u getting stronger without doing 1rms by weather you can do x weight for more reps, i always follow this,

every work out stars with a heavy compound lift now then get into the isolation work after that, my main foucs is always form and limiting momentum and full range of movement (something i think a few power lifters could learn from bb's) . part the problem i see with bodybuilders at my gym is they are not willing to leave there ego at the door, they say they want to get big but then when they train they always trying to lift more then they can, something you dont see in real big bodybuilders,

I'm not convinced of the specificity of the deadlift for bodybuilding. I see maybe rack deads as being really useful for upper back/trap thickness. But as a bodybuilder do I need to be doing full deadlifts. I personally am not convinced. Plus I hate the exercise and yes I've done plenty of them... I've also known many very good and gigantic bodybuilders who didn't do deadlifts.

As for not seeing big guys throwing big weights around with somewhat loose form.. clearly never watched the biggest and strongest of them all Ronnie Coleman's training videos. My personal experience tells me that the bigger guys I know all went through phases when lifting the most was a goal. Maybe not for singles but still everyone wants to be strong. We are competitive creatures aren't we? Even if just competing against our own numbers.

[maccaz]

kind of off topic i guess but have been following the blog etc of this guy in aus who is a coach at ptc (pl/strength gym)

he is strongly against arch on bench as "cheating"

 

after reading this and thinking about it I have been trying to use not much arch, makes it harder but working chest a bit more is a good trade off

[ngapuhi strong]

kind of off topic i guess but have been following the blog etc of this guy in aus who is a coach at ptc (pl/strength gym)

he is strongly against arch on bench as "cheating"

 

after reading this and thinking about it I have been trying to use not much arch, makes it harder but working chest a bit more is a good trade off

tots agree, i take it steep further and have my feet up on becnh partly cause im short lol but mainly to isolate the chest and stop myself from using leg drive 

[Hu Gh]

tots agree, i take it steep further and have my feet up on becnh partly cause im short lol but mainly to isolate the chest and stop myself from using leg drive 

 

Thats stupid. Just put plates down where your feet go. Wont matter heaps yet because you not benching heavy but when you do you want your feet on the ground to stabilise yourself not on the bench.

 

If you lie flat on bench without trying to arch then you wont arch/cheat. Arching just for weak ppl wanting to decrease their ROM. Same ppl benching wide grip and are also usually fat which when combined gives them ~3" ROM. Most of them lift equipped too coz that further boosts their bench numbers without actually having to get stronger.

[HarryB]

Cool so I'm a fat guy. Wide grip and arch will boost my numbers? ... got it

[Realtalk]

Having a tight set up in the bench isn't about being weak and you don't get any extra kudos for not benching with an arch... If being tight allows you to bench more weight then that can only be a positive. If you were loose in a squat or deadlift you wouldn't be able to move as much so why should bench press be any different. The bench press is a compound movement. I think we sometimes forget that... Maybe it's the mild obsession we all seem to have with it when starting out, I'm not sure. The idea is to move as much weight as posdible on it you are using multiple joints and muscles in the movement which should mean more load. Putting your feet in the air is a silly idea (in my opinion) again it's a compound movement why try try turn it into an isolation movement? If you want more isolation use Dumbells. I put that pretty close to squatting on a bosu ball. Just my view.

[HarryB]

So..... bench on a bosu ball?

[Realtalk]

So..... bench on a bosu ball?

Lol Well people do dumbbell press on a Swiss ball so yeah probably more effective on a bosu ball ( lower to the ground = more leg drive)

[HarryB]

What is interesting to me about this discussion is that if I think about power lifters and bodybuilders I actually know personally. The numbers they shift in the gym are quite comparable. It's why I've never really bought into percentage programming or Russian whatever to get stronger.

I'm not talking about elite guys but more you're everyday guy who calls himself a power lifter or a bodybuilder and even competes. Those programmes are specific to guys who have a great base and want to work up from it. But bodybuilder or power lifter you have to build that base first. Guys are so quick to compete which is great I guess but just as a bodybuilder at a novice comp thinks he should be doing Ronnie Coleman's routine so do powerlifting guys over complicate what they're doing in training... nutrition and drugs. We're lucky on this forum to have some really powerful guys who lift a whole bunch of weight. And some big guys who probably also lift pretty well and some who are both. But the average bodybuilder and average power lifter lift pretty much the same day in and day out.

A basic strength and bodybuilding programme is the base from which both sports stem in terms of training. A novice in either is going to or should at least be (in my opinion) training in very similar fashions.

Perhaps I am wrong. But I know a few bodybuilders who don't do specific training for strength and yet are very very strong because they have a very good base of compound movements and work their basics hard all the time.

[trainlikeafreak]

How about just train hard, keep reps between 6-12 for the most part.. Plenty of rest.. Nutrition on point so your constantly growing.. If your growing your getting stronger. Pretty simple. a nutrition plan is more important than a set in stone training program if your training to grow muscle imo, considering you know how to train.

[trainlikeafreak]

However I wish I followed a PL type program when I first started out. Took me like 3 years to follow my first periodisation program which I broug off a PLer lol and a very good one at that.

[Hu Gh]

How about just train hard, keep reps between 6-12 for the most part.. Plenty of rest.. Nutrition on point so your constantly growing.. If your growing your getting stronger. Pretty simple. a nutrition plan is more important than a set in stone training program if your training to grow muscle imo, considering you know how to train.

 

 

Why keep reps between 6 and 12 mostly?

 

And no offence br0 as this is just part of discussion (and you a bber not a PLer i realise this), but you are and have always been quite weak for your size. Thoughts on this?

[trainlikeafreak]

Why keep reps between 6 and 12 mostly?

 

And no offence br0 as this is just part of discussion (and you a bber not a PLer i realise this), but you are and have always been quite weak for your size. Thoughts on this?

im not a strong guy but I train to be big and in saying that I'm not exactly 'weak' I don't think, reps between 6-12 is what builds muscle that's why.

[Hu Gh]

When ive made best (fastest) gains ive trained low reps pushing myself at heavier weights and got the best strength and size gains ive had doing this. Something like following (use bench as example as can remember it):

Bench

100x5

150x5

180x3

180x3

180x2

160x7

Then db bench to finish off

70x8

70x7

70x7

70x6

70x6

Yes im aware that some of sets are in 6-12 rep range but most not and db ones only are coz no heavier dbs. I disagree that doing 6-12 reps is what builds muscle. Agree it will build muscle but so would 20 reps or 2 reps per set and personally i like lower rep shit while eating lots to get bigger and stronger. Anyway i not that strong now coz from going heavy i f*ck up shoulder (main cause was reracking 180 on low non adjustable bench rack...snap not even once) but yeah that my cool story br0

[Realtalk]

I agree. Common sense is more often than not, the best pathway. Problem is common sense isn't too common. Keeping things simple is what I like to do. If any of you reading this thread read my journal you would see how simple my workouts are, and that's because my goals are simple. Getting strong simple, getting big simple. Inb4 "why aren't you big and strong then". Not a bad thread from someone just saying they think everyone should focus on getting stronger.

[trainlikeafreak]

Bodybuilding is probably the most over complicated thing in the universe lol. A lot of the time by people trying to find an easy way or a short cut/magic formula

[ngapuhi strong]

Bodybuilding is probably the most over complicated thing in the universe lol. A lot of the time by people trying to find an easy way or a short cut/magic formula

tots agree, had couple young guys want to do chest with me the other day, not saying i got the best chest guess thet just seen the progress ive made over last year so i said sure thing, think they were bit disapoined when all we done were db flat incline decline and flys flat incline decline, think they were expecting some complicated routine doing random and weird movements

[HarryB]

tots agree, had couple young guys want to do chest with me the other day, not saying i got the best chest guess thet just seen the progress ive made over last year so i said sure thing, think they were bit disapoined when all we done were db flat incline decline and flys flat incline decline, think they were expecting some complicated routine doing random and weird movements

Lol yeah. Peeps come train with me and get disappointed cos I only do very basic exercises and not a whole lot of volume most of the time. Oh well... not sure what they're expecting but I just do my normal workout.

[Riccardo]

The things bodybuilders can learn from powerlifters?

 

1. lift heavier

2. plan your training better

 

I think for the most part, bodybuilders under-utilise heavy weights. Heavy training causes more tension and damage to the muscle which means greater hypertrophic response. Strength gains tend to go hand in hand with size gains.

 

They also (generally) fail to plan their training, most wander into the gym, do a few bro sets of 3 x 10-15 trying to add on more weight each week and wonder why they don't progress. I'm not advocating some ridiculous % based conjugate periodization or anything too intense like that. Just a basic game plan that incorporates some basic principles like training cycles and de-loading.

 

I believe those two things would help improve the results of most bodybuilders.