What bodybuilders can learn from powerlifting

[trainlikeafreak]

The things bodybuilders can learn from powerlifters?

 

1. lift heavier

2. plan your training better

 

I think for the most part, bodybuilders under-utilise heavy weights. Heavy training causes more tension and damage to the muscle which means greater hypertrophic response. Strength gains tend to go hand in hand with size gains.

 

They also (generally) fail to plan their training, most wander into the gym, do a few bro sets of 3 x 10-15 trying to add on more weight each week and wonder why they don't progress. I'm not advocating some ridiculous % based conjugate periodization or anything too intense like that. Just a basic game plan that incorporates some basic principles like training cycles and de-loading.

 

I believe those two things would help improve the results of most bodybuilders.

yep totally agree. Simple stuff really.

[Hu Gh]

Agree with everyone here. Simple

[ali g]

really interesting topic!

from a girls point of view...

 

i have competed as a powerlifter and bodybuilder for several years, back to back... in some cases a week or 2 between powerlifting and bodybuilding comps

 

i began as a bodybuilder, and being a total newcomer to resistance training, i did what 'i was told' and followed the bodybuilding training plan (lots of isolation and bugger all compound), and the 'diet' which was in at the time... keeping in mind this was a good 12 or more years ago!

 

before long i was introduced into the powerlifting moves by a trainer, who was actually very clever, because at the time he didnt tell me they were powerlifting moves.. he just kind of snuck them into my training!

 

anyway, to cut a long, and most likely boring story short, i ended up for the good part of 7 years competing, pretty successfully in both sports... but always training for powerlifting and pretty much forgot about all the other stuff i had been told to do in the very beginning when i began bodybuilding

 

i threw 'the diet' out the window, concentrated on lifting heavy, had lots of rest/recovery, and before long i was winning overall titles at bodybuilding comps at the same time as winning at the world masters powerlifting champs 2 years in a row... food for thought  :-) 

 

keep it simple, keep an open mind, eat a balanced diet and most of all enjoy your training, dont take stuff too seriously, and keep good balance in your lives... my motto :yes:

[Pseudonym]

So, largely inspired by this topic, I decided to change up my "bodybuilding" training for a more powerliftery routine.

 

I went with Boring But Big, a derivative of Wendler's 5/3/1 program. And I downloaded the Wendlerized app to help me calculate and track it all.

 

Tonight was the first BBB workout. I've got to say I'm not an immediate convert.

 

The program calls for just 3 working sets of one exercise - in this case, military press. And only the final set is to failure. Here's how it goes:

Set 1:   65% of 1RM for 5 reps

Set 2:   75% of 1RM for 5 reps

Set 3:   85% of 1RM for 5+ reps (as many as you can)

 

To be honest, sets 1&2 I would have just considered a warmup under my previous "bodybuilding" style training. So I completed set 3 (managed 6 reps to failure, so I think my weight estimates were pretty much spot on) and wondered where the rest of the workout was.

 

Fortunately BBB adds two extra "assistance" exercises into the mix (5 sets of 10 reps each), which eventually meant my shoulders got a proper workout. But it was no thanks to the 5/3/1 part of the program.

 

I know this was just shoulders... maybe it'll be harder for squats. And I know each week progresses further. But it still only seems like one "real" working set.

 

Is this normal? Are powerlifters just soft? :-P

[teamfatboy]

Wow, sounds like someone's feeling provocative lol

My first thought was that the 1RM was too low but if you only got 6 on a 5+ day, that's about right.. Wait til 1+ at 95% heheheh.

My experience with this (or a variation on it by a former GB powerlifting champ, now at Kapiti Powerlifting Club) is that it hinges on accurate 1RM, and effective complementary exercises. On the Kapiti push-press day, it's matched with bench press, three shoulders (side and front raises, rear flies) and three biceps. Get the settings right on all those, with proper form, do it for a block of four-five weeks, test, adjust, repeat.

I've used some other training templates which assume you KNOW to add complementary work, but if you don't, the gains aren't so easy.

[maccaz]

Pseudo, i thought this about every program at the start but as long as you plugged in correct 1rms just ignore the doubt and you will see soon enough that its put together like that for a reason.

Recently got a mate onto stronglifts 5x5 and he complains its too easy but i can def vouch for the fact 1. It works. 2. Its not easy for long.

Give it some time and change if still unhappy in a month.

I got a friend doing wendler bbb and its def working for him

[Spacebound]

5/3/1 stuff

 

 

well its called big but boring for a reason. if you look around there is alot of different assistance programs for 5/3/1 and even a bodybuilding one. 

 

if you stick to the program you should log your workouts, would be interesting to see how many cycles you could run before you stall. 

[Pseudonym]

Wow, sounds like someone's feeling provocative lol

:shifty:

 

Cheers guys. Yeah, I figured it was probably going to get harder. But it still seems wrong to just do one set to failure. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement...!

 

And Spacebound, I'm definitely going to track what I'm doing in this "Wendlerized" app. There's way too much maths involved otherwise.

[Hu Gh]

Where my post go?

[maccaz]

:shifty:

Cheers guys. Yeah, I figured it was probably going to get harder. But it still seems wrong to just do one set to failure. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement...!

And Spacebound, I'm definitely going to track what I'm doing in this "Wendlerized" app. There's way too much maths involved otherwise.

Different ways to skin cat re failure. I havent gone to failure in months and growing and getting stronger

[Spacebound]

:shifty:

 

Cheers guys. Yeah, I figured it was probably going to get harder. But it still seems wrong to just do one set to failure. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement...!

 

And Spacebound, I'm definitely going to track what I'm doing in this "Wendlerized" app. There's way too much maths involved otherwise.

 

 

I mean on here, with a journal haha so we can criticize you and give you bad advice huehuehue 

 

 

 

 

jk but srs about a journal here

[jingleballs]

simply put, weightlifting/powerlifting is all about focusing on lifting heavy ass weights so no one can use the do you even lift card on them, where as bodybuilding is all about lifting weights to CONTRACT your muscles to induce hypertrophy.

[Optimass]

Good thread - I am a powerbuilder ....

 

For years people have tried to sell the 6 - 12 reps builds more muscle - failing to acknowledge its the duration of the load on the muscle that activates growth (along with many other hormonal and nutritional factors lol). 

 

This is my basic approach:

 

Want to compete on a stage and maintain size - high reps and high volume.  Train for a nose bleeding pump.

 

Want to get stronger and still make gains - low rep training at start of workout on a compound lift like bench/squat/bent over row working up to heavy triples. The balance of the work out is accessories work done at varying rep ranges so you get the benefit of both strength and power along with a massive pump.

 

Peaking for a platform comp:  Same as above but train Bench/Squat and add a deadlift day as a double up to activate the muscles in your back before the lift day.

 

.............

 

Agree with Harry on Deadlifts being redundant for bodybuilding - yes it activates your back but there are better more efficient ways to build a better thicker back - deadlift is more about leg drive and static back strength.  This is why it's not commonly found in bbing programs.  On the flip side bodybuilding routines are great for building deadlift strength alongside heavy squats.  Andrey Milanichev often is heard explaining the key to a heavy deadlift is thick back muscles.

[Optimass]

  a nutrition plan is more important than a set in stone training program if your training to grow muscle imo, considering you know how to train.

 

Interesting you have this view but you have worked with Marc Rainbow.  I couldn't disagree more.  If you want to be average or to come up short then yes - but if you are serious about winning or coming in your best you have EVERYTHING in check.  You sell out. (no disrespect - I just have strong opinons based on the fact I am old haha)

 

People often get too over come by the nutrition factor and don't realise they are not working at 100% of their capability.  If your training is off and your nutrition is in check you come in lean yes probably flat and small - if you get the training volume and intensity right you come in grainy, full and hard.

[trainlikeafreak]

Interesting you have this view but you have worked with Marc Rainbow.  I couldn't disagree more.  If you want to be average or to come up short then yes - but if you are serious about winning or coming in your best you have EVERYTHING in check.  You sell out. (no disrespect - I just have strong opinons based on the fact I am old haha)

 

People often get too over come by the nutrition factor and don't realise they are not working at 100% of their capability.  If your training is off and your nutrition is in check you come in lean yes probably flat and small - if you get the training volume and intensity right you come in grainy, full and hard.

I more meant you don't need a program saying bench press 4 sets 10 reps bla bla bla.. If you have basic training principles you follow and they are sound it doesn't have to be written down to get results. People come In string and small cos their diets off or they think they should train light for the last month of prep.. Again that's a training principle. I just don't think you need an actual program to take into the gym every day. I don't think training should change THAT much leading into a show either. You can't say your falling short if you don't have a program because it's intensity that matters and if you have a problem but don't give it your all cos it says only do 8 reps well then that's falli short.. Heavy weights and being shredded through cardio and nutrition is what does it. Or so Im told lol.

[maccaz]

I more meant you don't need a program saying bench press 4 sets 10 reps bla bla bla.. If you have basic training principles you follow and they are sound it doesn't have to be written down to get results. People come In string and small cos their diets off or they think they should train light for the last month of prep.. Again that's a training principle. I just don't think you need an actual program to take into the gym every day. I don't think training should change THAT much leading into a show either. You can't say your falling short if you don't have a program because it's intensity that matters and if you have a problem but don't give it your all cos it says only do 8 reps well then that's falli short.. Heavy weights and being shredded through cardio and nutrition is what does it. Or so Im told lol.

 

 

program is good because it takes out one lot of thinking for you, so can focus more energy on other areas eg diet, rest, drugs, whatever,

 

with a proper program you just go to gym do what you're supposed to do, no room for going by feel or deciding you dont wanna do a particular set/whatever, you know what you have to do and can't stray from that. maybe not for everyone but works for me, i know i have to do x on a particular day no exceptions 

 

it is good if the program is good, if the program is shit/you have butchered it/made some kind of hybrid whatever then may as well just go by feel

[HarryB]

Yeah a programme vs just doing what you feel like doing on any given chest or back or leg day. Good for another topic.

[Realtalk]

I think having a plan and structure is good. An idea of where you have come from, where you are now and where you are going in as far as lifting is concerned is important. Programs project this more accurately than guesswork. I believe strength increases can be a helpful indicator of how a trainer is progressing in certain areas. But not the only indicator. As I said earlier in the thread if you can move a bigger load more times with the same form, it can only be a good thing.

I don't think a bodybuilders program needs to be as regiment as a powerlifters program. But even my program I am pretty free to do any choice of assistance work I choose for the bodypart I'm training. I think variety is good but don't think each muscle needs to be worked from 10 different angles. Others would disagree but there is little proof to support this. Too much variety makes it hard to track progression.

[HarryB]

I think the idea of specific set by set rep by rep programming isn't overly useful for bodybuilding.

Personally if I want to get stronger at a particular exercise I just work that exercise first on the day I'm doing that body part. Otherwise I just have a general idea of progress over time by getting gradually stronger on everything. I don't enjoy having a programme that is too regimented because I get bored doing the same things every time I train. But that's just me. I also think real strength is being strong on everything not just specific exercises like in powerlifting. So I like to rotate my exercises around so that I can be strong on all of them in the rep range I train in.

[trainlikeafreak]

Lol just go to the gym train fkn hard.. Do a few compounds do a few isolation movements. Go home eat your food and get results. It's not rocket science.

The biggest problem is people think they train hard when they don't. If nutrition and bla is spot on the one thing that holds most people back is not giving their training 100% imo.

[Optimass]

The biggest problem is people think they train hard when they don't. 

 

this is true - it's the difference between good and great imo

[Realtalk]

Train hard and smart. Not hard and dumb. Difference.

Josef rakich trains harder than anyone I know. He one of the dumbest trainers I ever known too. Good example there. No offence.

[trainlikeafreak]

Train hard and smart. Not hard and dumb. Difference.

Josef rakich trains harder than anyone I know. He one of the dumbest trainers I ever known too. Good example there. No offence.

does he?????????????????????

 

whos the trainer lol

[Realtalk]

Well he trains fast and with intensity yeah. Maybe the hardest is wrong term and exaggeration, but it got my point across.

[maccaz]

Well he trains fast and with intensity yeah. Maybe the hardest is wrong term and exaggeration, but it got my point across.

iv gotten to gym, seen him going hard doing abs, worked out for hour and a bit like usual, leave, hes still smashing abs

obv this was just one time as i trained different time to him but he def was intense, just a shame i was there for abs day or woulda been worth watching lol