Natural after my first cycle

[Subby]

Hi all,

35 years old, been on and off when it comes to weight training, nothing serious until the last three months when I started my first cycle.

Last year November I weighed 146kg and lost 30kg in about 4months doing high intense exercises bit of crossfit and boxing, and the caveman diet, now I’m looking at putting on muscle which I believe I have done in the last 2months with my first cycle of Testosterone Enanthate only, pinning 250mg twice a week for 10 weeks.

My start weight before my first cycle was 116kg, currently at 122kg, today was my last pin, now dosing Nolvadex for PCT in two weeks’ time for three weeks.

Training routine is: Every Monday through to Friday cardio in the mornings followed by weight training in the afternoons for an hour, Saturday weights only with Sunday my only rest day.

Diet: Eating 5 to 6 times a day every 2 to 3hours, mostly protein by meats with little carbs added.

After my first cycle is completed I’m looking at going natural again, My question is will I lose much gains if I do.

 I’m also considering doing my first novice show which I was inspired to do by my cousin who did his first in Brisbane.

Any help will be appreciated, even comments on training routine and diet.

 

Cheers 

[rapz]

Post some pics bro,

of course you will lose some gains when u come off, do things right post cycle and your likely to keep some as well.

[Leeroid]

Yes you can claim that you're natural

[Pseudonym]

Huge, mate! You'll be giving Rapz a run for his money if you get any bigger.

[Subby]

Huge, mate! You'll be giving Rapz a run for his money if you get any bigger.

I doubt it, Rapz is a beast.

[yeelang]

You will still be able to gain natural, how much you will lose depends on a myraid of things.

 

Getting your free testosterone levels back to baseline is really the kicker when coming off cycle. Stress hormones, bodyfat, diet, cycle length.. all play a part in recovery. 

This is why a lot of poeple cruise on HCG through cycle and through PCT as it allows most of the critical elements to return to baseline without an exodus of testosterone. Then when you feel stable you taper out the HCG and you're back running on your own steam again.

If you're going to pull the rug out from underneith you then expect to lose some muscle, it's just not possible to keep the same protein turn over rate with such a difference in testosterone. Also the stress of training and other circulatating hormones can interfere with the recovery rate of your natural testosterone

 

[Subby]

You will still be able to gain natural, how much you will lose depends on a myraid of things.

 

Getting your free testosterone levels back to baseline is really the kicker when coming off cycle. Stress hormones, bodyfat, diet, cycle length.. all play a part in recovery. 

This is why a lot of poeple cruise on HCG through cycle and through PCT as it allows most of the critical elements to return to baseline without an exodus of testosterone. Then when you feel stable you taper out the HCG and you're back running on your own steam again.

If you're going to pull the rug out from underneith you then expect to lose some muscle, it's just not possible to keep the same protein turn over rate with such a difference in testosterone. Also the stress of training and other circulatating hormones can interfere with the recovery rate of your natural testosterone

 

I suppose losing what I have gained has got me worried, your post has got me thinking whether coming off is worth it when trying to build muscle mass, must admit though, during my fourth week of cycle I noticed huge strength gains and a difference in recovery time.

Something I’m going to seriously think about.*scratch_one-s_head*

[Realtalk]

Well you won't loose it all.

[daywalker]

old thread I know. but being natural (claiming?) after a cycle I'm not sure of. there was a study done where athletes who used aas received benefits long after the use of aas. the argument put forward was that because of this reason, caught athletes should be banned for life. bit off topic but adding my 0.02

[Pseudonym]

there was a study done where athletes who used aas received benefits long after the use of aas. the argument put forward was that because of this reason, caught athletes should be banned for life.

Wow... "for life" seems a bit extreme. Surely any residual benefits would be negligible after several years? Do you remember any of the details, like timeframe, etc?

[Realtalk]

Once you have done a cycle you can't call yourself natural ever again. It's not debatable.

[Hu Gh]

Once you have done a cycle you can't call yourself natural ever again. It's not debatable.

Im natural

[jimmybro1]

Half natty maybe

[daywalker]

 

there was a study done where athletes who used aas received benefits long after the use of aas. the argument put forward was that because of this reason, caught athletes should be banned for life.

Wow... "for life" seems a bit extreme. Surely any residual benefits would be negligible after several years? Do you remember any of the details, like timeframe, etc?

 

im not sure of the details, it was a few months back. Im trying to find the study right now and ill get back to you when if i can

[daywalker]

heres the news article

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/29510575

 

but it doesnt have the link to the study. im sure if you dug around the internet for a bit longer youll find it but im feeling lazy at the moment lol

[Leeroid]

I think priestbrah put it best when he said "trying to claim natty after doing a cycle is like trying to reclaim your virginity" Once it's gone, it's gone.

[atrollappears]

heres the news article

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/29510575

 

but it doesnt have the link to the study. im sure if you dug around the internet for a bit longer youll find it but im feeling lazy at the moment lol

 

• • 
  Training studio folklore suggests that previous strength training, with or without the use of anabolic steroids facilitates re-acquisition of muscle mass even after long intervening periods of inactivity. This ‘muscle memory’ has previously been attributed to motor learning, but our data suggest the existence of a cellular memory residing in the muscle fibres themselves.
• • 
  Muscle fibres have multiple nuclei, and the number of nuclei increases when muscle mass increases.
• • 
  When mice were briefly treated with steroids the muscle mass and number of nuclei increased. The drug was subsequently withdrawn for 3 months and the muscle mass returned to normal, but the excess cell nuclei persisted. When such muscles were subjected to overload they grew by 30% over 6 days while controls grew insignificantly.
• • 
  Our data suggest that previous strength training might be beneficial later in life, and that a brief exposure to anabolic steroids might have long lasting performance-enhancing effects.

Abstract  Previous strength training with or without the use of anabolic steroids facilitates subsequent re-acquisition of muscle mass even after long intervening periods of inactivity. Based on in vivo and ex vivo microscopy we here propose a cellular memory mechanism residing in the muscle cells. Female mice were treated with testosterone propionate for 14 days, inducing a 66% increase in the number of myonuclei and a 77% increase in fibre cross-sectional area. Three weeks after removing the drug, fibre size was decreased to the same level as in sham treated animals, but the number of nuclei remained elevated for at least 3 months (>10% of the mouse lifespan). At this time, when the myonuclei-rich muscles were exposed to overload-exercise for 6 days, the fibre cross-sectional area increased by 31% while control muscles did not grow significantly. We suggest that the lasting, elevated number of myonuclei constitutes a cellular memory facilitating subsequent muscle overload hypertrophy. Our findings might have consequences for the exclusion time of doping offenders. Since the ability to generate new myonuclei is impaired in the elderly our data also invites speculation that it might be beneficial to perform strength training when young in order to benefit in senescence.

http://www.ous-research.no/dn/?page=publication&pmid=24167222

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2013.264457/abstract;jsessionid=03914B34824EF4620BB2ED05F5748F0F.f04t02

[jimmybro1]

I think priestbrah put it best when he said "trying to claim natty after doing a cycle is like trying to reclaim your virginity" Once it's gone, it's gone.

That priestbrah is gospel 

[Pseudonym]

Very interesting. Cheers Daz.