Is it possible to lose fat while slowly bulking?

[mrgeeky]

If so, can anyone tell me how this is achieved?  What caolorie intake do you aim at? 
Do you aim at just being right on or just over maintanenance levels?

Im out with a shoulder injury so its not really important or relevant at the moment.. Just wondering is all.
 

[crazyfacials]

My old sanpai said you can, but not natty, you need to test your limit

[bambam]

I say with Diet on point you can. I started my contest prep at roughly 90kg, dropped to 83kg at my lowest then ended up at 86kg onstage for my first bb contest and  88kg onstage for my second contest 2 weeks later (14week time frame) High protein, fat and fibre, low carb 

[mrgeeky]

I say with Diet on point you can. I started my contest prep at roughly 90kg, dropped to 83kg at my lowest then ended up at 86kg onstage for my first bb contest and  88kg onstage for my second contest 2 weeks later (14week time frame) High protein, fat and fibre, low carb 

and what did you work your calorie intake at? In deficit? Maintenance? minimal bulking calorie intake?

[bambam]

The diet was all handled by my trainer Bobby, However I would say I was constantly in a calorie deficit. 

[fng]

I'm doing a bobby kazemi plan as well, working extremly well for me at the moment.

The big problem is everyone is different, and there daily activities vary as well.

for example do you have a desk job, or are you a postie on ya bike.

Bambam and I may well have a similar diet, but it won't be identical due to our different daily needs.

The more you know about what you are currently doing food wise, and results, or lack there of the more likely a nutritionist is going to get it right for you first time.

we get weighed and fold tests done regulary to fine tune our plans

Yes the weight/fat is reducing and strength going up 

[Pseudonym]

Yeah, I've done much the same - overall weight has stayed steady while I've got leaner, therefore I must have lost fat and gained muscle. It gets exponentially harder to keep this up, but it's quite possible early on, or if you return from a break.

 

88kg onstage for my second contest 2 weeks later

I don't think we ever saw pics of this, did we Bambam? How did you do?

[bambam]

Il chuck some up in that same topic now

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

yes its possibly if you roll around maintenance for a while, you can also do it on a caloric excess so long as it's not too high (you have to try and see what works for you, requires frequent monitoring of your bodyfat/intake for a little while by yourself or your trainer until you find a level you're happy with). this is my personal experience as a beginner-intermediate gymrat, slowly burnt off fat and put on muscle without the caloric deficit.

[Gym rat]

I would also say yes as well for me. When I started  cutting for the pans this time around started at 101 and lost three kg in the first week which would include cycling my carbs. Not to sure what my stage weight will be at this stage.

[crazyfacials]

I would also say yes as well for me. When I started  cutting for the pans this time around started at 101 and lost three kg in the first week which would include cycling my carbs. Not to sure what my stage weight will be at this stage.

Have you decided if you want to do the pans this year?

[Gym rat]

I was refuring to august 8th when I go to weigh at kings school the night before the pans

[yeelang]

It is possible, your body is more primed to lose fat on a bulk than during cut. While in a total overall calorie surplus per day you have micro cycles of deficit between surplus (sleep/inbetween meals)  where you have the propensity to lose fat. Generally this is counter regulated by spikes in calories which complete the cycle but this can be skewed. Certain individual responses to foods, drugs, environmental factors can tinker with that process when macronutrients are accurate over time. (If they aren't accurate your body will just lay down a functional response)

 

Take Tren and carbs around a workout as a prime example. Most users report they just burn off/sweat the excess carbs when consuming zero fat. In this example during your peaks you have a low propensity to store fat, high insulin and a functional requirement to build muscle. During your deficit you are still burning fat.

 

You also have functional adaptations from stimulus such as hit cardio. Where regardless of caloric intake the adaptation is to more efficiently oxidize fat stores. Finally as you increase bodyweight and caloric intake your body fights by increasing metabolic rate which requires more fat to be oxidized during your deficit periods... once again higher propensity. 

 

 

 

[mrgeeky]

It is possible, your body is more primed to lose fat on a bulk than during cut. While in a total overall calorie surplus per day you have micro cycles of deficit between surplus (sleep/inbetween meals)  where you have the propensity to lose fat. Generally this is counter regulated by spikes in calories which complete the cycle but this can be skewed. Certain individual responses to foods, drugs, environmental factors can tinker with that process when macronutrients are accurate over time. (If they aren't accurate your body will just lay down a functional response)

 

Take Tren and carbs around a workout as a prime example. Most users report they just burn off/sweat the excess carbs when consuming zero fat. In this example during your peaks you have a low propensity to store fat, high insulin and a functional requirement to build muscle. During your deficit you are still burning fat.

 

You also have functional adaptations from stimulus such as hit cardio. Where regardless of caloric intake the adaptation is to more efficiently oxidize fat stores. Finally as you increase bodyweight and caloric intake your body fights by increasing metabolic rate which requires more fat to be oxidized during your deficit periods... once again higher propensity. 

 

 

 

Do you have a version of that written in English? Farrk I dont understanda  word your saying.. How the hell do you guys learn all this shit.. I cant even understand it..

[Dinahlady]

Not to mention that when people focus on "bulking" they often focus more on consistent programs with the aim of gaining strength. As you gain strength week to week your overall output (poundage) will always be increasing over time causing increase in 'calroies burned' (I hate that term). As well as Increased glycogen storage capacity, insulin sensitivity, blood glucose control as well as the yeelang mentioned increased bodyweight so increased caloric needs compared to intake etcetc.

In the clients ive trained as soon as they are advanced enough to begin increasing the weight week on week and lifting heavy (for them) their body recomposition skyrockets as they are lifting big fucking weights all the time and the amount they are lifting is constantly increasing. If you aren't eating enough these gains cant happen, but of course if youre stuffing your face you'll still gain fat. Eating just above maintenance and lifting heavy ass weights is never going to make you look worse. Whereas continually trying and failing to "cut", and constantly trying to diet and lose fat all the time (the state that most overweight people come to/exist in the gym at) is never going to make you look good. 

[mrgeeky]

Not to mention that when people focus on "bulking" they often focus more on consistent programs with the aim of gaining strength. As you gain strength week to week your overall output (poundage) will always be increasing over time causing increase in 'calroies burned' (I hate that term). As well as Increased glycogen storage capacity, insulin sensitivity, blood glucose control as well as the yeelang mentioned increased bodyweight so increased caloric needs compared to intake etcetc.

In the clients ive trained as soon as they are advanced enough to begin increasing the weight week on week and lifting heavy (for them) their body recomposition skyrockets as they are lifting big fucking weights all the time and the amount they are lifting is constantly increasing. If you aren't eating enough these gains cant happen, but of course if youre stuffing your face you'll still gain fat. Eating just above maintenance and lifting heavy ass weights is never going to make you look worse. Whereas continually trying and failing to "cut", and constantly trying to diet and lose fat all the time (the state that most overweight people come to/exist in the gym at) is never going to make you look good. 

Wicked post Dinahlady.. Absolutely wicked... Its one of  my problems.. Always seem to be training in calroie deficit as Im always trying to lose fat and failing..

Thank you Dinahlady.. Im going to stop training in calorie deficit which I seem to have been doing for years and will take your advice..

[mrgeeky]

I think training to failure every session while in calorie deficit is one of the reasons Im so injury prone too...

[fng]

If you go to the training forums, then ladies room, then 'new to weight training' there is a link to a milos sarcev video, by Terrymundo. It's quite long but well worth the look.

Personally my body reacts well to diet change, but plateaus fairly quickly. so I might get two weeks of noticiable changes, then typically in the third I seem to start to plateau, and by the forth untill recently have been scatching my head so to speak.

in the Milos video he uses an example of a girl crash dieting, her body adapting and plateau, then hitting it again, and again. very interesting, it's at about 1.10 in.

what i've noticed is that even with say a 200cal diet change the body will still adapt and plateau

it could be the weight loss slows or stops, or the strength gains plateau, or you feel more fatigued, or bloated visually.

Everyone is different and reacts in different ways to macros, and exercise. what works for one person won't always work for another. it's a huge learning game.

Finding a trainer/nutritionalist that can read/measure the changes as they happen and smooth out the highs and lows is always going help fast track your goals and learning.

Maybe Dinahlady does corrispondance ;-)

 

 

[mrgeeky]

Am i going about this right?

Stats

182cm.
119kg
Im guessing with the amount of muscle Im carrying I should be around 90kg.
Basing that on getting down to 96kg before and I was startig to come close to seeing my abbs for the first time in my life lol..

Ok, using Scooby's calc to work out calories for slow bulk burning fat while putting on muscle, at 90kg and considering the  6 +  hours a week spent in the gym I should be consumming 2850 calories..

Am I right in basing it on my ideal weight?

 

[mrgeeky]

coz Im thinking if I base the calcs on my current weight, of 119kg.. gives me 3874 calories per day
It says I'll stay the same weight but will slowly add muscle and drop fat..
which is obviously not the goal.. one way or another I got to shake this fat..
 

Now I think about it, Im cant bulk with shoulder injury at the moment anyway... So why am I working it out on bulking.. Goal is to retain muscle which Im trying to encourage by doing light weights until my shoulder comes right..  But also need to lose fat while Im at it. 

God I feel thick.. this should be easy to work out...

[Dinahlady]

You can't do everything at once. 

Rehab your shoulder first. This requires some food. working in a calorie defecit, or too large of a defecit. will not help your recovery. You will be limited on your work output when you are injured as you cant do everything at 100%... so you probably aren't going to lose a lot of body fat at this time. 

Accept it. work as hard as you can to fix your shoulder without pissing about an wasting time. Then you can move on to the next stage. 

[Leeroid]

Is it possible to lose fat while slowly bulking? Yeah if you've got the genetics of Kevin Levrone.

For the majority of people your realistic expectation should be to keep fat gain to a minimum while on a muscle-gaining/bulking phase. Unless you're on high dose test/tren/clen/T3 or coming back from a layoff then you're not gonna get leaner while simultaneously putting on muscle.

Likewise, you're not gonna put on any muscle while cutting either (again, unless you're taking anabolics).

Some people just need to wake up

[mrgeeky]

cheers Dinah lady, so where do I sit at with my calori intake?  Lets say I sit at maintanence calories while I fix my shoulder..
Do I sit at mainanence level for 90kg?
Or do I sit at maintenance level for 119kg?
If I stick at maintenance levels for 119kg, and my shoulder takes 6 months to come right, I'll still be a fat blob in 6 months time..
Thoughts please?

 

[Leeroid]

Dinahlady told me she rages each time she reads one of your posts due to the pure stupidity it contains.

[Dinahlady]

Dinahlady told me she rages each time she reads one of your posts due to the pure stupidity it contains.

LOL 

cheers Dinah lady, so where do I sit at with my calori intake?  Lets say I sit at maintanence calories while I fix my shoulder..

Do I sit at mainanence level for 90kg?

Or do I sit at maintenance level for 119kg?

If I stick at maintenance levels for 119kg, and my shoulder takes 6 months to come right, I'll still be a fat blob in 6 months time..

Thoughts please?

 

You're maintanence/calories are to be calculated from where you are now. 

Eating maintanence calories doesnt mean you'll maintain your current body composition.