Some interesting history around why fat was/is considered bad

[Cameron_R]

I'm sure the info in the article explaining that saturated fat is good, is not news to most on this forum, but I thought that the explanation of history surrounding how and why the world has misconceptions about fat in general is very interesting (at least it is interesting to me )

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303678404579533760760481486?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303678404579533760760481486.html

[2fierce]

Interesting artilce. The power of print. I guess if people are interested in losing body fat, they will research about it. They will follow the yellow fat road. The masses of people are igorant and believe what is printed in front of them. You can only set the example. Post/ log your training, meals and your body measurements. Only when people see and read about your success, a light might flicker in there head.

 

Interesting segment on Campbell Live, a week or two ago about saturated fats. It seems that the young professor pushing for saturated fats to be increased in your diet, while the old professor is still stuck in his ways. Eating fat makes you fat and leads to heart disease.

 

[Pseudonym]

As it turns out, Dr. Keys visited Crete during an unrepresentative period of extreme hardship after World War II. Furthermore, he made the mistake of measuring the islanders' diet partly during Lent, when they were forgoing meat and cheese.

Bloody hell. That's a terrible basis for a study. He couldn't have got it worse if he tried!

[Cameron_R]

Yeah I know!

Amazing what you find sometimes when you look at the method.

[B_Eden]

 I guess if people are interested in losing body fat, they will research about it.

 

The problem with this is that the general public believes whatever turns up in their "research", which is generally some article which horribly misinterprets a scientific study and as such gets enough page views to make it to the top of their google search.

[Kalidane]

Interesting artilce. The power of print. I guess if people are interested in losing body fat, they will research about it. They will follow the yellow fat road. The masses of people are igorant and believe what is printed in front of them. You can only set the example. Post/ log your training, meals and your body measurements. Only when people see and read about your success, a light might flicker in there head.

  

 

I can see how logic could lead you to that conclusion but it's common for those results to be dismissed as an outlier, or it you're big enough, the result of steroid use.

 

People have their way of thinking about a thing and will reject evidence that contradicts it, or flat out refuse to be exposed to such evidence.

 

People just grab a big ol' bag of confirmation bias and head out on the information superhighway to find what they already believe to be true.  Unfortunately for their understanding of reality, science is not a faith-based concept.

[Cameron_R]

On this topic ... I just borrowed this book from the library.

The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz

http://www.thebigfatsurprise.com/

"Investigative journalist Nina Teicholz reveals the unthinkable: that everything we thought we knew about dietary fats is wrong. She documents how the past sixty years of low-fat nutrition advice has amounted to a vast uncontrolled experiment on the entire population, with disastrous consequences for our health."

Looking forward to reading it. This history around this seems like a huge consipiracy to me. Call me a dork, but I think it'll be a great read :-)

 

Has anyone else read this book yet?

[GyzzBrah]

f*ck, all I can say about this is just f*ck it.

There are a lot of people pushing paleo / high fat diets, saying 'this is the way our ancestors ate, therefore it is the healthiest way to live. On the other spectrum, you have people pushing high sugar / carb vegan diets, saying 'our ancestors were vegan, therefore this is the best way to live'.

The truth is, just f*ck. Those fuckwits need to realise, the only reason our species have made it so far is our will / programming to survive at all costs. Vegans argue that it is unethical to kill for food, and never have done this in the past. f*ck off, ofcourse we had. When there was nothing else, we would have dug worms out of the ground just to keep living.

For our ancestors, being 'healthy' was none of their fucking priorities. Finding food to eat was. Therefore, going back to our primal ways of eating is not gonna make people healthy, maybe even worse. What mattered to them more? high cholestrol or being able to feed themselves tonight? Same goes for vegans claiming that thats how we used to eat.

In a similar context, same goes for people saying how they wish the world would go back to the way it used to be, that they 'miss the old days' etc. Dumbass, you wanna have to live as a fucking peasant getting all diseases and shit and have to swordfight people on the street and have some dumbass religion ruling over your continent? lol.

 

[Kalidane]

On this topic ... I just borrowed this book from the library.

The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz

http://www.thebigfatsurprise.com/

"Investigative journalist Nina Teicholz reveals the unthinkable: that everything we thought we knew about dietary fats is wrong. She documents how the past sixty years of low-fat nutrition advice has amounted to a vast uncontrolled experiment on the entire population, with disastrous consequences for our health."

Looking forward to reading it. This history around this seems like a huge consipiracy to me. Call me a dork, but I think it'll be a great read

 

Has anyone else read this book yet?

 

 

I'll just bold that for you.

 

If her next book is a revelation that everything we know about particle physics is a lie will you be reading that too?

 

What I'm saying is her book will leave you with a worse understanding of the science of nutrition/dietetics.  

 

But hey good luck

[Cameron_R]

f*ck, all I can say about this is just f*ck it.

There are a lot of people pushing paleo / high fat diets, saying 'this is the way our ancestors ate, therefore it is the healthiest way to live. On the other spectrum, you have people pushing high sugar / carb vegan diets, saying 'our ancestors were vegan, therefore this is the best way to live'.

The truth is, just f*ck. Those fuckwits need to realise, the only reason our species have made it so far is our will / programming to survive at all costs. Vegans argue that it is unethical to kill for food, and never have done this in the past. f*ck off, ofcourse we had. When there was nothing else, we would have dug worms out of the ground just to keep living.

For our ancestors, being 'healthy' was none of their fucking priorities. Finding food to eat was. Therefore, going back to our primal ways of eating is not gonna make people healthy, maybe even worse. What mattered to them more? high cholestrol or being able to feed themselves tonight? Same goes for vegans claiming that thats how we used to eat.

In a similar context, same goes for people saying how they wish the world would go back to the way it used to be, that they 'miss the old days' etc. Dumbass, you wanna have to live as a fucking peasant getting all diseases and shit and have to swordfight people on the street and have some dumbass religion ruling over your continent? lol.

 

 

I read that 4 times and I still have no idea what you're trying to say.

[Leeroid]

f*ck, all I can say about this is just f*ck it.

There are a lot of people pushing paleo / high fat diets, saying 'this is the way our ancestors ate, therefore it is the healthiest way to live. On the other spectrum, you have people pushing high sugar / carb vegan diets, saying 'our ancestors were vegan, therefore this is the best way to live'.

The truth is, just f*ck. Those fuckwits need to realise, the only reason our species have made it so far is our will / programming to survive at all costs. Vegans argue that it is unethical to kill for food, and never have done this in the past. f*ck off, ofcourse we had. When there was nothing else, we would have dug worms out of the ground just to keep living.

For our ancestors, being 'healthy' was none of their fucking priorities. Finding food to eat was. Therefore, going back to our primal ways of eating is not gonna make people healthy, maybe even worse. What mattered to them more? high cholestrol or being able to feed themselves tonight? Same goes for vegans claiming that thats how we used to eat.

In a similar context, same goes for people saying how they wish the world would go back to the way it used to be, that they 'miss the old days' etc. Dumbass, you wanna have to live as a fucking peasant getting all diseases and shit and have to swordfight people on the street and have some dumbass religion ruling over your continent? lol.

 

 

I read that 4 times and I still have no idea what you're trying to say.

He's just getting it out of his system. He doesn't know what he's trying to say either

[Cameron_R]

 

"Investigative journalist 

  I'll just bold that for you.

 If her next book is a revelation that everything we know about particle physics is a lie will you be reading that too?

If that was the topic, and it was a New York Times best seller, then hell yes.

Often books written by people who are not the subject matter expert are excellent. For example every single biography (as opposed to 'autobiography') ever written.

I want to read a historical account of interesting events, so a journalist is the perfect author. I do not want to read a scientific journal.

 What I'm saying is her book will leave you with a worse understanding of the science of nutrition/dietetics.  

 But hey good luck

[GyzzBrah]

sigh.. I't does make sense, but i'll simplyfy it for you

1) Paleo doctor says paleo is healthy, because it's how we used to eat

2) People eat paleo, because they believe doctor

3) Our ancestors did not actually care much about their health, they ate paleo because of nessessity not luxury, hence many civilisations moved to domestication and farming when they had the opportunity to do so

4) Therefore, people claiming that going back to our old ways of eating are wrong, because 10,000 years ago, paleo diets were not meant for optimal health, but because that's all they had to eat. If they had access to farms / grains etc, they would have eaten that. (which they did, in some cultures, eg egypt china etc.)

I don't see how the previous post was any different, but oh well, always gotta hate on gyzzbrah...

[Leeroid]

I don't see how the previous post was any different, but oh well, always gotta hate on gyzzbrah...

Nobody is picking on you. Stop being a sook. You post angry rants that aren't really related to the topic at hand. Like this one, nobody even mentioned paleo diets and you're going on about them. And last time in that politics thread, you randomly go on a massive rant about old Asians and oppulence.

So of course we poke some fun at your weird posts then you get all offended and think that everyone's against you. Just relax bro

[Cameron_R]

On this topic ... I just borrowed this book from the library.

The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz

http://www.thebigfatsurprise.com/

I finished last night

Quick Book Review:

The book is a historical account of nutritional science and government recommended diets, focused on the USA. The book has a strong anti-establishment bias, and paints key people to this history as good or evil.

It takes you through how the prevailing wisdom's in the nutrition field have changed over a century and who the key players were and how their personalities have influenced the winning theories of the day.

It does not attempt to be a nutritional science text book, which I was very happy with. Although it does conclude that a diet high in Fat and Saturated Fat is very likely much healthier for you than high Carb diet.

For anyone interested in Nutritional Science, this book will be a very interesting read.

 

 

[Pseudonym]

Has it changed the way you think about fats? Or more specifically, has it changed the way you eat?

[Cameron_R]

Has it changed the way you think about fats?

Yes. It has made me more aware, but I am not 100% sold. Fundamentally the author is telling us that many decades worth of nutritional scientists got it wrong, and we should believe her. It has a 'climate denier' feel to it.

Or more specifically, has it changed the way you eat?

[Riccardo]

Cameron, I think there is plenty you can take away from this article without going against your doctor's advice too much. Try making some adjustments and see what happens to your blood lipids and insulin sensitivity. Talk to your doctor's about the lipid hypothesis, specifically with regard to saturated fat and vegetable oils and see what they think. I'd be interested in hearing their opinions too.

For what it's worth there is generally a lag between research and the assimilation of that research into clinical practice, it just has to be this way. However most current research supports a lot of what that article says. 

[Cameron_R]

 

Cameron, I think there is plenty you can take away from this article without going against your doctor's advice too much. Try making some adjustments and see what happens to your blood lipids and insulin sensitivity. Talk to your doctor's about the lipid hypothesis, specifically with regard to saturated fat and vegetable oils and see what they think. I'd be interested in hearing their opinions too.

For what it's worth there is generally a lag between research and the assimilation of that research into clinical practice, it just has to be this way. However most current research supports a lot of what that article says. 

Fair points. I have been tracking my bloods so I can easily measure any changes.