Should knees ever go inwards?

[greemah]

I've been really working on form lately and with the squat working on aggressively pushing knees out and going ATG. Almost at the point where it feels like I'm standing up from a cross-legged seated position lol

I thought the deadlift was sort of opposite, having feet close and knees more inwards when lifting but after doing more research it seems knees should be pushed outwards during this lift also.

So my question is, is there any lift where knees are supposed to be inwards? E.g. should this just be done for single leg movements like lunges / step ups etc?

Thanks

[SubZ]

Knees should always be outward if not forward doing squats / leg press.

The reason for this is because it opens your hips up and allows you to get a deeper press.

Yesterday my girlfriend was doing leg press and her knees were going inward.

Didn't look right so I corrected her, the problem was her feet were to close together.

Edit: miss read your post. With deadlift your knees should be straight when doing a traditional deadlift.

For a sumo deadlift you take a wide stance and face knees outwards

The only exercise I can think of where my knees would go inward is doing calve raises to hit a different area of the calve

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

knees are a hinge joint, they never go in unless you want to set yourself up for injury in that area.... trust me, you don't want that!

[greemah]

But when deadlifting knees would need to be out if feet were pointed out slightly. Or should feet and knees both be straight forward?

Maybe I've been putting so much effort into keeping knees out that doing single leg stuff & deadlifts with straight feet/knees just feels like they're going inwards..

[student]

It sounds like you might be taking "knees out" too far. The main thing is to make sure your knees arent caved in at the bottom of your squat. This is an example of a good highbar ATG squat:

note that he knees come in during his ascent (but arent inside his feet). this is fine.

Im not sure what you mean by knees out on the deadlift but whatever you could possibly mean is probably incorrect. Here is an example of a great deadlift.

[Wookie]

It's not much of a problem if it's only a bit as you come up. If they're collapsing, that is a big issue. Fix that via forcing them out and doing some narrow stance, high bar squats.

That said, forcing the knees out, while it does open up space for the hips, doesn't seem to be a natural position for most people. I'm allowing mine to come in just a little bit these days and it's working fine and I feel allowing a little extra quad activation. Important thing to realise is the knees 'coming in' is due to movement at the hip joint, not the knees. The knee is a hinge joint and only works in 1 plane.

[greemah]

Thanks for your replies all, much appreciated. I think I've got it sorted now, gained too much flexability in the hips so need to control how much i hold the knees out now. Just doing bodyweight atg squats now and it is feeling much easier and natural

[Dinahlady]

You can externally rotate your femur without pointing your toes out - which is what "knees out" kind of is supposed to be based upon - it will create more stability at the hip joint and more integration between hams/glutes/lower back/lats etc for deadlift. But you dont need to point your toes outward or be extreme with it. 

Just try it - try a light deadlift with your knees inward and feel how unstable it feels through your glutes and lower back. compare that to if you create tension by pushing them out slightly.

[greemah]

You can externally rotate your femur without pointing your toes out - which is what "knees out" kind of is supposed to be based upon - it will create more stability at the hip joint and more integration between hams/glutes/lower back/lats etc for deadlift. But you dont need to point your toes outward or be extreme with it. 

Just try it - try a light deadlift with your knees inward and feel how unstable it feels through your glutes and lower back. compare that to if you create tension by pushing them out slightly.

Thanks Dinahlady, so it's ok to externally rotate femur without toes being out too? Doesn't that go against what everyone says about knees going same direction as toes?

[Leeroid]

You can externally rotate your femur without pointing your toes out - which is what "knees out" kind of is supposed to be based upon - it will create more stability at the hip joint and more integration between hams/glutes/lower back/lats etc for deadlift. But you dont need to point your toes outward or be extreme with it. 

Just try it - try a light deadlift with your knees inward and feel how unstable it feels through your glutes and lower back. compare that to if you create tension by pushing them out slightly.

Thanks Dinahlady, so it's ok to externally rotate femur without toes being out too? Doesn't that go against what everyone says about knees going same direction as toes?

No, because almost no one ever turns their knees out more than their toes.

[Dinahlady]

Hunt around this guys channel for stuff on squat - there is so much i just cant find the basic videos explaining ext rotation. I know ive ref this guy before but he expalins stuff well (even though he likes crossfit ) 

[Pseudonym]

he expalins stuff well (even though he likes crossfit ) 

Haha! Nobody's perfect, Dinah!