3 Brothers

[Skeletor]

Ive got 3 scenarios here i was hoping somebody could answer for me .

There are 3 brothers ( identical triplets) all the same weight , eat the same , sleep the same , train the same, everything the same but each choosing a different path with the use of their cycles.

Adam       500mg per week test enth, 10 weeks on 10 weeks off for a year using nolva post cycle each time.

Barry        500mg per week test enth, 10 weeks on then cruise @ 250mg for 10 weeks then blast @ 500mg again and so on for a year. PCT after the year

Carl          500mg per week test enth,    52 weeks straight never coming off. PCT after the year

Question is, provided everything is identical apart from the cycle then who has gained the most muscle after the year has ended and if diifferent who is likely to keep more of the gains once PCT has completed.

 

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

carl because he was adopted and he's black so his genetics are better aligned towards lean muscle building

[justhell]

Mmmm I think maybe Carl would be better off using 500mg per week but im not sure.

Barry has got the best idea but if I was him I would stay on longer, say 20 weeks on then go 200 mg test for 8 weeks so on & so on.

Dam good question Skeletor im interested in the right answer on this.

[Skeletor]

Yeah my natural thought was Barry to but im not sure. Ive read so many articles on the net ive just confused myself lol. Couple of guys in the gym were talking about it and it got me thinking as to which road is the best for making and keeping muscle. Looking at it purely for them as bodybuilders  though so would actually be interesting from a powerlifters view to.  example being, how each cycle effects strength gains.

[Clueless]

My 2c which maybe worth 0c. What I think with some broscience

Assuming base testosterone the same in the brothers they will look the same long term is my guess.

You body can only hold on to an amount of muscles your natural testosterone levels can support. Thats why you cruise -as at a higher than natural level

[Ben0]

I would have said Barry on the blast/cruise would be better off

[Leeroid]

Scenario at 0 weeks:

Adam 80kgs 12% BF

Barry 80kgs 12% BF

Carl 80kgs 12% BF

 

Scenario at 52 weeks:

Adam 84.54kgs 10% BF

Barry 89.68kg 8% BF

Carl 93.97kgs 7% BF

 

Scenario at 60 weeks:

Adam 82.78kgs 10% BF

Barry 86.32kgs 10% BF

Carl 88.25kgs 9% BF

 

Scenario at 72 weeks

Adam 82.15kgs 10% BF

Barry 82.58kgs 12% BF

Carl 83.46kgs 13% BF

 

That's as scientific as you can get bro. Don't ask me how I got the numbers cos I don't know. But it still reflects how I think the results will be.

 

Adam will gain the least amount of muscle due to the least time on gear and the fact that he would've lost gains while off gear. So essentially he has taken two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back to end up  2 steps ahead of where he started. BUT, he will also have the healthiest HPTA as it has only been suppressed for 10 weeks. 

 

Barry will have gained more than Adam becauses he will not have taken any steps backwards. But, while on cruise dose, he will have only been maintaining his muscle mass, not increasing. So there is the opportunity cost of the time that he was on only 200mg of gear. In terms of PCT, he will be just as fucked as Carl. He will be COMPLETELY shut down. He will have no advantage over Carl recovery wise. His balls have been simply dead weight for 52 weeks which means that recovery will be tough. Imagine a car that hasn't been turned on for a whole year. Cruising DOES NOT restart your natural production of testosterone. The reason bodybuilders cruise is to restore health markers, not restore the size of their ballsacks. So this would basically be the worst option in terms of muscle gain vs recovery. However, if you were committed to being on for the rest of your life, then this would be the smartest option as it allows your body to have a break.

 

Carl will gain the most amount of muscle mass due to the fact that he will have injected 26,000mgs of testosterone over the 52 week period, compared to Barry's 19,500mgs and Adam's 13,000mgs. He will have been gaining constantly over the entire period. However, I suspect that his health markers will be the worst out of all of them. He will have been shut down for 52 weeks which means that recovery will be tough. But this is a bit of a retarded scenario because I doubt anyone that goes on for 52 weeks straight is going to come off completely for the rest of his life. 

[atrollappears]

Barry        500mg per week test enth, 10 weeks on then cruise @ 150mg for 10 weeks then blast @ 500mg again and so on for a year.... End of year carry on cruise blast, increasing dose each blast introducing Tren + Masteron....

As muscle size increases more compound may be needed to hold onto lean body mass already gained, therefore a further increase in compound would be needed to create further gains, plus over time AR upregulation would necessitate the bodys ability to use more gear, hence greater growth in the longer term...

I'm unsure if person 3 would end up bigger than person 2, as I've always found the longer I stay on the less you gain, & if anything all you end up doing is stagnating...

With a substantial enough break greater gains seem attainable when blasting again..

my 2c.... 

[AZIDE]

a more relevant scenario would be you have 25000mg of test+as much nolva/AI's as you want. at the end of 1 year you want to have gained the most muscle possible. how would you do it?

[Realtalk]

Carl would, his test levels are the higher than the others for longer, you can keep gaining all the way through. Being shut down for 30 weeks or 130 weeks... Big deal.

blasting and cruising using 500mg and 250mg is pointless.

cycling 10 weeks on 10weeks off is a hormonal roller coaster and who wants to use AI and serms on a regular basis they are worse for you than steroids so the medical professionals all tell me. And what kind of pct is just nolvadex, that ain't gonna bring ur balls back very fast lol

[Skeletor]

Thanks for the replies .  I guess its safe to say that the equal time on to equal time off road is not the best one if looking to gain maximum muscle and keep it.  I probably should have re phrased the question instead of using set mg and limiting it to a set time of a year but was really just after the answer as to if you looking to gain and keep muscle long term which of the 3 options is best .

Cycling on and off.

Blast and cruise.

Full time on higher dose.

 

[Pseudonym]

Great topic, guys!

 

Carl would, his test levels are the higher than the others for longer, you can keep gaining all the way through. Being shut down for 30 weeks or 130 weeks... Big deal.

blasting and cruising using 500mg and 250mg is pointless.

cycling 10 weeks on 10weeks off is a hormonal roller coaster and who wants to use AI and serms on a regular basis they are worse for you than steroids so the medical professionals all tell me. And what kind of pct is just nolvadex, that ain't gonna bring ur balls back very fast lol

So are you suggesting it's best just to stay on at 500mg the whole way through? What about cholesterol levels and other health markers?

[atrollappears]

Thanks for the replies .  I guess its safe to say that the equal time on to equal time off road is not the best one if looking to gain maximum muscle and keep it.  I probably should have re phrased the question instead of using set mg and limiting it to a set time of a year but was really just after the answer as to if you looking to gain and keep muscle long term which of the 3 options is best .

Cycling on and off.

Blast and cruise.

Full time on higher dose.

Blast and cruise.. would be my choice, there's plenty of studys out there show that somewhere between week 8-12 gains start to slow, due to the rise in catabolic hormones countering the effects of AAS, you have the option of ramping up the dose to squeeze out a few more gains, but it doesn't go on forever... You have to eventually drop to a TRT dose to allow those catabolic hormones to reduce and health markers to return to normal (for enough time) before blasting again, maybe with slightly more gear than previously to account for the extra lean body mass you now have... Plus greater AR upregulation, which should allow extra gear to be utilized more effectively ...

 

[Realtalk]

He asked about most muscle gain... Obviously it is person C, higher test means more muscle gain so yeah from a purely muscle gain perspective out of the 3 options that is best.

and personally I  best for your health as well there is little difference in health risk between person b and c. Like I said before your cholesterol and blood pressure still be raised on 250mg/week... 250 to 500 to 250 isn't a blast/cruise it's a waste of time is what it is. You want to be coming down to like 100-150mg a week on the cruise the whole Idea of it is to use as less as possible to maintain what you gained on the blast while giving your body a rest from the high blood pressure and elevated cholesterol levels etc etc etc... If you're not doing that then may as well just blast all the time.

and option A yeah it's ok but I dnt like using all those post cycle meds they aren't good for your body... Your using a drug then you use another drug to stop the side effects of the first drug and so forth. Ok if u do a couple cycles a year but if your planning on doing it long term then blast cruise u dnt wanna be taking those things every 10 weeks.

 

[atrollappears]

He asked about most muscle gain... Obviously it is person C, higher test means more muscle gain so yeah from a purely muscle gain perspective out of the 3 options that is best.

and personally I  best for your health as well there is little difference in health risk between person b and c. Like I said before your cholesterol and blood pressure still be raised on 250mg/week... 250 to 500 to 250 isn't a blast/cruise it's a waste of time is what it is. You want to be coming down to like 100-150mg a week on the cruise the whole Idea of it is to use as less as possible to maintain what you gained on the blast while giving your body a rest from the high blood pressure and elevated cholesterol levels etc etc etc... If you're not doing that then may as well just blast all the time.

and option A yeah it's ok but I dnt like using all those post cycle meds they aren't good for your body... Your using a drug then you use another drug to stop the side effects of the first drug and so forth. Ok if u do a couple cycles a year but if your planning on doing it long term then blast cruise u dnt wanna be taking those things every 10 weeks

 

 500mg per week test enth, 10 weeks on then cruise @ 150mg for 10 weeks then blast @ 500mg again and so on for a year.... End of year carry on cruise blast, increasing dose each blast introducing Tren + Masteron....

Thought I'd covered my arse in first post, lowering cruise to 150mg/week...

I'm still unsure option 3 would result in more lean body mass over the long term..?

 

 

Tren-A kicks arse....

[Pseudonym]

I think Realtalk was answering my question, Daz.

One further question... "cycling 10 weeks on 10weeks off is a hormonal roller coaster" - given that the preferred blast/cruise seems to be 500g/100g, that's quite a big fluctuation, so is this any less of a hormonal roller coaster?

[atrollappears]

I think Realtalk was answering my question, Daz.

One further question... "cycling 10 weeks on 10weeks off is a hormonal roller coaster" - given that the preferred blast/cruise seems to be 500g/100g, that's quite a big fluctuation, so is this any less of a hormonal roller coaster?

It needn't be a hormonal rollercoaster, if blood levels are kept relatively stable with more frequent pinning, Its pinning once a week with a high dose that can be an issue....

PCT due to the nature of dropping all test then knocking E2 really low with Nolvadex + Clomid can create an emotional rollercoaster by its very methodology... 

PCT is seen as very old school considering what we know about the workings of HPTA, some form of taper with an mild AI might be more prudent, producing less fluctuations, therefore less hormonal issues...

 

[jimmybro1]

What about tapering off...? Would that minimise the hormonal fluctuations >?

[Iron.man]

I would have said Blast / Cruise would have been the best way to go up until recently.

I came on and off cycle with pct then 12 weeks off in between cycles for my first 3 cycles then decided I wasnt into the roller coaster of PCT so blast cruised for 3 years.

I needed to come off for fertility reasons so I came off everything last year for a year.  Ran HCG, Nolva, Clomid etc.  Standard Power PCT

Managed to hold onto a surprising amount of size for the year I was off everything.  Recently came back on cycle and within 7 weeks I am bigger than I ever was.  There are several other top amateur bodybuilders in the country I have spoken to who have experienced a similar experience.

There must be something to coming on and off cycle although I agree with Tom, PCT drugs are more harmful than the actual gear.  They are heavy breast cancer drugs but no one bats an eye at them.

If I could make a recommendation for maximum size it would be Blast / Cruise for up to a year.  Come off on a decent PCT.  Stay off for another 12 weeks minimum past the PCT before going back on cycle.  Keep training hard and eating well through out your time off.

[Skeletor]

He asked about most muscle gain... Obviously it is person C, higher test means more muscle gain so yeah from a purely muscle gain perspective out of the 3 options that is best.

and personally I  best for your health as well there is little difference in health risk between person b and c. Like I said before your cholesterol and blood pressure still be raised on 250mg/week... 250 to 500 to 250 isn't a blast/cruise it's a waste of time is what it is. You want to be coming down to like 100-150mg a week on the cruise the whole Idea of it is to use as less as possible to maintain what you gained on the blast while giving your body a rest from the high blood pressure and elevated cholesterol levels etc etc etc... If you're not doing that then may as well just blast all the time.

and option A yeah it's ok but I dnt like using all those post cycle meds they aren't good for your body... Your using a drug then you use another drug to stop the side effects of the first drug and so forth. Ok if u do a couple cycles a year but if your planning on doing it long term then blast cruise u dnt wanna be taking those things every 10 weeks

 

 500mg per week test enth, 10 weeks on then cruise @ 150mg for 10 weeks then blast @ 500mg again and so on for a year.... End of year carry on cruise blast, increasing dose each blast introducing Tren + Masteron....

Thought I'd covered my arse in first post, lowering cruise to 150mg/week...

I'm still unsure option 3 would result in more lean body mass over the long term..?

 

 

Tren-A kicks arse....

Thanks to everyone for the responses. So would tapering off from 500mg to the 150mg for the cruise be better for avoiding the hormonal fluctuations or just drop directly to 150?  Also what kind of muscle loss would one expect to lose while on the cruise?  Is the dosage enough to keep the gains provided diet and training are in check?

 

 

[Ben0]

 

 

[Pseudonym]

Iron.man wrote:

...blast cruised for 3 years.

I needed to come off for fertility reasons so I came off everything last year for a year.  Ran HCG, Nolva, Clomid etc.  Standard Power PCT

And you didn't have any trouble restarting normal HPTA function, despite being suppressed for so long?

 

Iron.man wrote:

I agree with Tom, PCT drugs are more harmful than the actual gear.  They are heavy breast cancer drugs but no one bats an eye at them.

But surely those who take anti-e on a "traditional" cycle would still require them on blast-cruise? Certainly on the blast, and maybe on the cruise phase too?

[atrollappears]

 

 

 500mg per week test enth, 10 weeks on then cruise @ 150mg for 10 weeks then blast @ 500mg again and so on for a year.... End of year carry on cruise blast, increasing dose each blast introducing Tren + Masteron....

Thought I'd covered my arse in first post, lowering cruise to 150mg/week...

I'm still unsure option 3 would result in more lean body mass over the long term..?

 

Thanks to everyone for the responses. So would tapering off from 500mg to the 150mg for the cruise be better for avoiding the hormonal fluctuations or just drop directly to 150?  Also what kind of muscle loss would one expect to lose while on the cruise?  Is the dosage enough to keep the gains provided diet and training are in check?

 

 

Test-E is kinda self tapering... 500mg - 150mg would work find, it should take about 4 half-lifes to reach 150mg...

[atrollappears]

Iron.man wrote:

I agree with Tom, PCT drugs are more harmful than the actual gear.  They are heavy breast cancer drugs but no one bats an eye at them.

But surely those who take anti-e on a "traditional" cycle would still require them on blast-cruise? Certainly on the blast, and maybe on the cruise phase too?