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Brand names

atrollappears
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atrollappears Member

atrollappears

Posted
Posted

Thought brand talk was banned

I am aware certain brands have a reputation within NZ for under-dosing, under-strength, and serious sterility issues, Ultagenix is one of those...

I am also aware of brands that have a much better reputation for correctly dosing, without sterility issues whom I can personally vouch for strength through blood testing, and some GC/MS..

This forum is used by adults requiring or giving advice mainly on strength sport topics, of which this particular section deals exclusively with members asking for advice on AAS or other meds.

Is it not in the best interest of all concerned if a bad or potentially harmful brand can be discussed openly not via PM so that a fair assesment can be made prior to decisions being made that could potentially be detrimental to someones health..? 

There are currently 6 users online, another forum I frequent has 1832 currently online. This used to be a huge community here, if older members are to return and newer members are to be encouraged to stay then some changes need to be made. Sensible discussion about potentially harmful brands should not only be allowed it should be encouraged.

Lets face it anyone that wants to excel in sport has to consider some form of performence enhancement otherwise you won't do shite, especially within strength sports and in particular Body-building.. 

 

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AZIDE Senior member

AZIDE

Posted
Posted

interesting. i think discussion of gear including mention of UG brand names where relevant should be allowed. just not openly selling or advertising stuff on here. just my opinion though as there were good reasons to ban brand discussion.

wonder if pseudonym's mind will be changed.

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atrollappears Member

atrollappears

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I agree. Only problem of course will be people that deal in certain brands promote them. But I guess it's up everyone to choose who they take their information from..

Yes... That is where there were issues before, but thats why the forum has Moderators..

I have no products for sale and no brands to promote, I have used AAS for longer than most of you have been alive, if a forum user comes on here and complains they believe a product is not as advertised, underdosed, or causing health issues, it should be reasonable for me or others to ask what product they are administering. If I am aware myself or others have had issues with that particular brand I should be able to say so without being sensored like a 6 yr old.. 

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AZIDE Senior member

AZIDE

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i use to lurk nzbb. they should of kept it as that. not gymnation.

they changed the rule quite a while before it became gymnation.

theres really f*ck all difference now between nzbb and gymnation except lots of the old posters stopped posting when it changed over (or hardly post now). if they came back it would be pretty much the same as before

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Pseudonym Veteran member

Pseudonym

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Believe me, guys, I have plenty of sympathy towards your arguments for allowing brand name discussions. I personally agree with a lot of them.

But I think you've forgotten the absolute shitfight that was happening with the wars between brands. Frankly, it was a fucking nightmare for me and the moderators to try and keep the peace. I don't want to go back there.

If you can give me solutions to all the reasons I outlined when we announced the no-brands policy (http://www.gymnation.co.nz/forum/steroids-prescription-meds/new-forum-policy-brand-names-banned?page=2#comment-2672543) then I'm happy to relook at it.

But I'm not going to put the forum into any position that could be interpreted as facilitating the trading of steroids. And you can't expect the moderators to police the discussions when there's no way of knowing who's selling what.

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Realtalk Veteran member

Realtalk

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Believe me, guys, I have plenty of sympathy towards your arguments for allowing brand name discussions. I personally agree with a lot of them.

But I think you've forgotten the absolute shitfight that was happening with the wars between brands. Frankly, it was a fucking nightmare for me and the moderators to try and keep the peace. I don't want to go back there.

If you can give me solutions to all the reasons I outlined when we announced the no-brands policy (http://www.gymnation.co.nz/forum/steroids-prescription-meds/new-forum-po...) then I'm happy to relook at it.

But I'm not going to put the forum into any position that could be interpreted as facilitating the trading of steroids. And you can't expect the moderators to police the discussions when there's no way of knowing who's selling what.

Musson got locked up it all went away lol true story.

But yeah whatever it doesn't affect me too much so I don't care. 

 

All good.

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atrollappears Member

atrollappears

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I've already had input on this discussion previously, therefore my opinion is well known..

Looking below: There are currently 4 users online, 60 in the last 24hrs, (this wont impress current or future advertisers) Fliping over to another forum I use, there are 2522 currently online and a quarter of a million total members.. When the public forum of GH-15 opens this month one might conclude it will be heavily subscribed and that more members will be lost..

There needs to be a focal point to get members back and acquire new ones, what there is at the moment isn't attracting enough quality posters, that is an unfortunate reality.. 

I shouldn't have NZ body-builders contacting me on US websites requesting advice on NZ brands, with reference to underdosing and health concerns. I should be able to discuss openly on NZ's only Body-building web-site genuine concerns on NZ available products..(whether legal or not)...

As previously stated, if strength sports are your thing AAS are not just an option they are a necessity, thats just the way it is. Genetics, diet and training will only get you so far, without AAS + hGH etc'.. you won't do shite on the World stage, because everybody else is on...!!!!!

There are two questions we all want to know when contemplating AAS:

i) Is the product what it says on the package..?

ii) Is it the correct dosage..?

This is why I believe not only should brands be discussed:

Images of products and labelling should be allowed so that fakes and fake labelling can be quickly identified, ensuring ligitimate products are easily distinguished from fakes.

Warnings on products that have caused health issues, with photos of packaging, so that legitimate brands of the same name are not mistaken..

Warnings on products believed to be underdosed or not to contain as advertised. Blood tests to suggest dosage, and/or GC/MS to confirm compound identity...

If the "Brands Discussion" were to focus purely from a health and harm reduction perspective, for the peace of mind and welfare of Members, and not resort to brand promotion, I don't believe it would bring the forum into disrepute or cause legal issues... I appreciate this proposal is open to abuse (as is anything).. If Members were responsible and acted in a mature manner, it might just work, and would obviously benefit everyone contemplating AAS...

 

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rapz Senior member

rapz

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I've already had input on this discussion previously, therefore my opinion is well known..

Looking below: There are currently 4 users online, 60 in the last 24hrs, (this wont impress current or future advertisers) Fliping over to another forum I use, there are 2522 currently online and a quarter of a million total members.. When the public forum of GH-15 opens this month one might conclude it will be heavily subscribed and that more members will be lost..

There needs to be a focal point to get members back and acquire new ones, what there is at the moment isn't attracting enough quality posters, that is an unfortunate reality.. 

I shouldn't have NZ body-builders contacting me on US websites requesting advice on NZ brands, with reference to underdosing and health concerns. I should be able to discuss openly on NZ's only Body-building web-site genuine concerns on NZ available products..(whether legal or not)...

As previously stated, if strength sports are your thing AAS are not just an option they are a necessity, thats just the way it is. Genetics, diet and training will only get you so far, without AAS + hGH etc'.. you won't do shite on the World stage, because everybody else is on...!!!!!

There are two questions we all want to know when contemplating AAS:

i) Is the product what it says on the package..?

ii) Is it the correct dosage..?

This is why I believe not only should brands be discussed:

Images of products and labelling should be allowed so that fakes and fake labelling can be quickly identified, ensuring ligitimate products are easily distinguished from fakes.

Warnings on products that have caused health issues, with photos of packaging, so that legitimate brands of the same name are not mistaken..

Warnings on products believed to be underdosed or not to contain as advertised. Blood tests to suggest dosage, and/or GC/MS to confirm compound identity...

If the "Brands Discussion" were to focus purely from a health and harm reduction perspective, for the peace of mind and welfare of Members, and not resort to brand promotion, I don't believe it would bring the forum into disrepute or cause legal issues... I appreciate this proposal is open to abuse (as is anything).. If Members were responsible and acted in a mature manner, it might just work, and would obviously benefit everyone contemplating AAS...

 

 

good argument right there. where one of the most important things highlighted is everyones health and safety, whether the products are pharma or UG, there should be a place for discussion.  lots of shitty stuff flying about out there, exposing them for what they are would be doing everyone a favor.

 

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Pseudonym Veteran member

Pseudonym

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Yep, and as I say, it's the safety aspect I have most sympathy for. Playing watchdog is certainly not something Gymnation has any obligation to do, but we could take on that role if we chose.

However...

If Members were responsible and acted in a mature manner, it might just work

...I think you've just found the flaw in this argument. :P

 

How would you deal with these scenarios then?

Joe Bloggs orders a bunch of Brand X gear. He gets a good deal from the distributor for buying in bulk, and figures he can pay off the cost of his own stuff by flogging the rest off at a small profit. Trouble is, the gear turns out to be a bit shit. But now he's stuck with a pile of it to sell, so when people ask about the quality of Brand X, he talks it up.

But that doesn't work - people seem to be buying Brand Y instead. So now he has to start slagging off Brand Y. Maybe "a friend" tried Brand Y and nearly died. That should do it.

But Brand X is still not selling. People just love that damned Brand Y. So finally Joe Bloggs takes a Brand Y label and slaps it on the Brand X vials. Voila! Suddenly he has Brand Y product to sell, and the problem is solved.

 

While all this is happening, John Smith is trying to sell a bunch of Brand Y product he'd bought in bulk. But some dickhead called Joe Bloggs keeps slagging it off on Gymnation. And this Joe Bloggs can't talk - he sells that dodgy Brand X product. How cheeky is that?

The only answer is to slag off Brand X. That's easy - after all, it really is shit.

But hang on, now there's counterfeit Brand Y product floating around, and it's giving the legit Brand Y stuff a bad reputation. Never mind. Just print off a Brand Z label, and slap it on the vial...

 

Oh yes, and both Joe Bloggs and John Smith are a long-time, "respected" members of Gymnation.

 

So how do you prevent this sort of thing, while allowing legitimate feedback? You can't expect the mods to police it.

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yeelang Member

yeelang

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Posted

 I'm surprised the owner of a public forum would argue convoluted information is no better than no information at all!

 

Problem with brand talk is you are no longer talking substances you are talking products. Pretty easy to see the ramifications legally. In terms of safety it's between the buyer and the seller imo, if you want to benefit safety it would be the sellers worth discussing not the brands.

 

re atrollappears:

I doubt you can link to a US hosted forum where people are publically asking about buying and selling gear, for the same reason it shouldn't be done here. (Silk Road anyone?)

 

While on the subject, Is there a verdict on price discussion Pseudonym?

For instance if I wanted to find out if $8/ml tren or $4/g test powder are good prices are we able to talk about that? 

This would be one benefit the website could provide to its specific geographic audience without getting into the drudgery of brand talk.

 

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yeelang Member

yeelang

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Noted the greater negativity coming from those previously with products for sale, and the poorest reputation... 

 

 

This is what Psedu was refereing to, When you give up on a constructive debate to slander oppsing views, the value is lost.

 

Look at it from his point of view, he has a website hosted in New Zealand that he needs to keep legally above board. ofcourse he wants more site traffic but not at the detriment of his moderators or to the credibility of his site and name. Provide a solution to his risk factors so he can question his standpoint. Your comment above is just reinforcing his views.

 

Regarding price - Have a mod sticky with contributions sent via PM.

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Realtalk Veteran member

Realtalk

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Yeelang - Lol how is a discussion between people saying they can get a particular compound for a certain $ value any different to a discussion between people regarding brand names? That still has exactly the same (if any) legal ramifications for the website and the poster is still technically incriminating themselves either way. The thing with a price only policy is that if you have shit gear you can hide behind the fact that no one can identify your shit gear through branding weather it be a label name or the various ways your product is put together (vials, stopper, cap etc). That just disregards atrollappears entire point about health and safety.

im not sure what you're suggesting, perhaps you could give an example yeelang?

p.s you couldn't make it any more obvious what your on here for, what's the geographical prices in your part of the country? 

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atrollappears Member

atrollappears

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Noted the greater negativity coming from those previously with products for sale, and the poorest reputation... 

 

 This is what Psedu was refereing to, When you give up on a constructive debate to slander oppsing views, the value is lost..

Slander or the truth...... Sue me....!!!!

 

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