Overtraining: "To grow or not to grow?"

[menofgrass]

Hi guys,

 

First post here. I will introduce myself, I’m currently a quite new member of the site and I must say I don’t usually post stuff on these types of things, I usually find myself stealing the "tricks of the trade" as you would say and not providing any input or getting involved. I joined the gym in March @70kg and today I was the heaviest I’ve been at 80.7kg, my ideal goal weight is to be 85-90kg in lean mass.

 

I was in discussion today with a mate about a training style and technique which I’m thinking of incorporating into my routine. I religiously follow Mike Rashid on YouTube and that is the ideal body type and size I would eventually like to get to. His training style is to overtrain and his mentality is right up there going to failure every time and most often doesn’t count reps. I try to emulate this when I can but I think I have an OCD for counting reps lol.

 

Any way in this video he posted he talks about legs being the biggest muscle group in the body and training them constantly 3-4 times a week will increase testosterone and help you grow, even in other parts. Now I was wondering if you were to incorporate say a squat, leg press, leg extension and hamstrings after doing a normal chest, back, shoulders or arms work out, would this help you to grow faster? Obviously not doing it the next day but every 2 days or so. 

 

Also being tired or fatigued is not usually a problem as have been training over 2 hours for the past 9 months.

 

See video attached, he talks about it @ 5:30min and onwards.

 

 

 

 

Thanks guys.

 

 

[jimmybro1]

If your training chest heavy/intense enough you shouldn't have enough energy to train legs afterwards. 

As for it increasing test levels I think that is a bit of BS, if it does it will be such a small amount that the effects won't be seen. I think you also have a hard time recoverying from this type of program unless you were taking recovery aids. 

Your only been training since March this year? Your got a crazy physique for only training that long! :-O

I would just continue doing what your doing now its obviously working!

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

i dunno youre the one with the greek god like physique why dont you share the way you've been training lol

[menofgrass]

If your training chest heavy/intense enough you shouldn't have enough energy to train legs afterwards. 

As for it increasing test levels I think that is a bit of BS, if it does it will be such a small amount that the effects won't be seen. I think you also have a hard time recoverying from this type of program unless you were taking recovery aids. 

Your only been training since March this year? Your got a crazy physique for only training that long!

I would just continue doing what your doing now its obviously working!

Yeah I usually do train it heavy but somedays i feel i just have that enery left. No pre-workouts only coffee but it makes a huge difference.

I see. I will try it out for you guys and see if i can gain faster, i was 78 for about 2-3 months.Test levels is what i want to increase, what would be another alternative to increase these levels besides steroids of course.

Thanks yeah since march, but did play football for many years.

I will mix it up this month see how it goes.

[menofgrass]

i dunno youre the one with the greek god like physique why dont you share the way you've been training lol

Haha thanks, well ive been training like this:

5 exercises per body group 

4 sets in each and 12 reps in each.

I dont go to one rep max at all on anything, plus im working around a groin injury so its a bit hard to go extreme heavy.

I use a belt now all the time.

[Dinahlady]

Seems like you're doing really well and tbh anything you do will probably work well as you're obviously doing stuff right for you! haha. You dont have to believe in overtraining if you are young and have good recovery and gains ability. try out different stuff - what you are drawn to and what you thik will work for you and the things that you like as the main point of doing this is that you like it and that it fits you - but its also cool to try and program in a few weeks / months where you try less volume to see the difference for you. You can either have high volume OR high intensity, by definition you can't have both no matter how much energy you feel you have -  so if you try much higher volume for a while you could also look at trying out lower volume higher intensity for a while after to see the contrast and what you prefer. 

 

[Leeroid]

Just forget about the whole overtraining myth. The only limit there is are the ones u put on yourself.

When Arnold first started training twice a day for 3 hours at a time everyone told him he was crazy and he would shrink from overusing the muscles. He actually made great gains after increasing his volume. And he was high intensity too. You can have both.

[menofgrass]

Seems like you're doing really well and tbh anything you do will probably work well as you're obviously doing stuff right for you! haha. You dont have to believe in overtraining if you are young and have good recovery and gains ability. try out different stuff - what you are drawn to and what you thik will work for you and the things that you like as the main point of doing this is that you like it and that it fits you - but its also cool to try and program in a few weeks / months where you try less volume to see the difference for you. You can either have high volume OR high intensity, by definition you can't have both no matter how much energy you feel you have -  so if you try much higher volume for a while you could also look at trying out lower volume higher intensity for a while after to see the contrast and what you prefer. 

 

Thank you.

Thats where im at now, just trying different training strategies and trying to find out what works and what doesnt, still a student of the iron sport.

 

[menofgrass]

Just forget about the whole overtraining myth. The only limit there is are the ones u put on yourself.

When Arnold first started training twice a day for 3 hours at a time everyone told him he was crazy and he would shrink from overusing the muscles. He actually made great gains after increasing his volume. And he was high intensity too. You can have both.

Yeah i know, people are different i guess i want to get the best of both worlds, just a game of trial and error at this stage.

Thanks mate appreciate it.

 

[menofgrass]

 

[Pseudonym]

What's the powerlifting program that basically prescribes squats day after day after day? I think some of our members here have done it (Drizzt, perhaps?) and got great results in strength at least. So maybe a similar program would also produce growth?

Overtraining is a cumulative problem anyway. So you might find doing a few weeks that incorporate many squat days, followed by a short break, followed by a few more squat-intensive weeks - that could actually take you right to the edge of overtraining, but not into it.

[jimmybro1]

What's the powerlifting program that basically prescribes squats day after day after day? I think some of our members here have done it (Drizzt, perhaps?) and got great results in strength at least. So maybe a similar program would also produce growth?

Overtraining is a cumulative problem anyway. So you might find doing a few weeks that incorporate many squat days, followed by a short break, followed by a few more squat-intensive weeks - that could actually take you right to the edge of overtraining, but not into it.

Probably Smolov. 

[menofgrass]

Dying to start this type of program more intensely after my groin recovers a little bit more 

[Pseudonym]

Yeah, that'd be it, Jimmybro. Maybe some of the powerlifters can tell us if it's any good for hypertrophy?

[menofgrass]

So is a goal to reach 90kgs  realistic? I'm currently sitting at 81. 

When I first started I may have thought it was ambitious or far fetched but now I'm over halfway. I'll try as always but I don't want to go down the road of bulking heavy then cutting. I really wouldn't enjoy seeing myself with a lot of fat everywhere through out the year, so will try it  out with a very clean program.

[Pseudonym]

If you're the same height as Franco Columbu (1.65m), I think 90kg would be a struggle if you want to stay as lean as you are right now. According to Wikipedia, Franco would have weighed less than that when he competed in the Mr Olympia...

For the Mr. Olympia competitions however, he competed in the under 200 lb (90.7 kg) category

Having said that, we've already established that you've got kick-ass genetics, so don't let it stop you from trying!