Cardio without losing MUSCLE

[k_gethin]

Hey everyone!

This week I start my third week from my 12 week program. I hit the gym 3 times a week to smash the weights but on my rest days I haven't been doing cardio. What type of cardio should I be doing and how long should I be doing it for? I just hear that if you do cardio like H.I.I.T or workout at a high heart rate for an extended period of time it burns muscle. Thanks

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

i'm not sure if you're new or not but lots of beginners seem to prescribe to the idea that cardio will burn muscle.. don't fall in to that myth, it's all about energy in vs energy out. lifting weights can 'burn' away muscle too if you're not keeping up with food requirements.

 

on your weights programs cardio can be awesome for helping you get fitter/healthier which in turn will show up in your progress with the weights and rest of your life especially if you're an outdoors worker. the most straight forward solution to doing cardio without losing muscle is add a bit more food to your day.

 

if doing cardio in the machines in the gym they'll provide some sort of estimate of calories burned so you can start to add food to your cardio days based on that. example you might stationary bike for 10mins and burn 100 calories that's 25 grams of carbs to cover it which is i think 2 weetbix.

 

with extended cardio some people take supplements called BCAAs preworkout/sip on it during workout which they beleive helps somewhat

[mrgeeky]

i'm not sure if you're new or not but lots of beginners seem to prescribe to the idea that cardio will burn muscle.. don't fall in to that myth, it's all about energy in vs energy out. lifting weights can 'burn' away muscle too if you're not keeping up with food requirements.

 

on your weights programs cardio can be awesome for helping you get fitter/healthier which in turn will show up in your progress with the weights and rest of your life especially if you're an outdoors worker. the most straight forward solution to doing cardio without losing muscle is add a bit more food to your day.

 

if doing cardio in the machines in the gym they'll provide some sort of estimate of calories burned so you can start to add food to your cardio days based on that. example you might stationary bike for 10mins and burn 100 calories that's 25 grams of carbs to cover it which is i think 2 weetbix.

 

with extended cardio some people take supplements called BCAAs preworkout/sip on it during workout which they beleive helps somewhat

The original post where you helped me had a link that you put up that allows you to calculate the amount of exercise you do weekly and adds a calorie allowance accordingly...     Just went back through the old posts and dug it up...

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

 

[Leeroid]

LOL the supplement industry has spent a lot of money on creating the perception that the human body is naturally extremely catabolic and any sort of physical exertion will strip pounds of muscle from your frame.

Doing a bit of cardio won't eat away at your muscles as long as you're not doing hours of it a day.

[StussyNz]

I prefer to go for a nice 45-1hr walk in the morning as soon i've woken up on an empty stomach.
I also do a little cardio after by Weight sessions in the evenings too; 10-15min bike.

Like Leeroid states above, Cardio won't kill your gains, To be honest it will mostl likely improve them.

[Kalidane]

Cardio is good (see Arnolds bible).

 

If you're eating at a surplus it will be hard to get smaller.

[rede frisby]

I think people ALSO fail to realise the impact of consistently moving their bodies all day to keep burning cals through NEAT or Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis ie any movement that isnt intended as exercise....goes along way to explain why those in sedentary or relatively sedentary occupations can struggle to maintain an appropriate body composition (weight)....

[Matrix]

I think people ALSO fail to realise the impact of consistently moving their bodies all day to keep burning cals through NEAT or Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis ie any movement that isnt intended as exercise....goes along way to explain why those in sedentary or relatively sedentary occupations can struggle to maintain an appropriate body composition (weight)....

So true Rede,

Being in a standing or physical job makes a huge difference,

Personally, Whilst PT'ing in Auckland which involved long days on your feet, spotting clients, Loading/Unloading weights and teaching Small Group Boxing/Kick Boxing  I got ready for a show and my cardio only involved 3 x 20minute sessions on a spin bike total for a 12 week prep.I did these 8 weeks out then got summised that more wasnt required as I was leaning out at a consistent enough rate without it and not getting weaker in my lifts.

The Nationals one year I actually ended up way too light just working a very physical job with no cardio and 12-13 hours days of manual work.I was probably the leanest in my class but lost too much muscle in the process - just didnt have enough experience or confidnence at the time to make adjustments in energy to slow this down.

A desk job can drastically alter your prep and daily energy expended out changes dramatically and needs to factored in when you are planning a base line point for muscle gain or fatloss etc.

[rede frisby]

Alot of my "structured" cardio is just mowing lawns and walking the dogs....

[Dinahlady]

I think its very hard - almost impossible - to "lose muscle". By lose muscle I mean lose muscle tissue, by that I mean amino acids being released from muscle in much higher than the normal rate of muscle tissue catabolism that is always residually occuring. When most people diet they over do the cardio and/or weights and become depleated of muscle glycogen. When you become depleated of muscle glycogen you also lose a lot of water from inside the muscle which is used to store that glycogen. This makes your muscles appear smaller and flatter. Looking like you've "lost muscle". The good news is you actually havent. 

The reason why you do not lose muscle tissue (alanine) when dieting is because it is very detrimental to survival during starvation. The average person only has 6kgs of skeletal muscle (bber prob more ofc) stores to use (which are obviously put ahead of the other 5-10kgs of organ tissue and internal smooth), but all are paramount to survival and are not fuel stores. the amount of muscle in your body will only last around 2 weeks to supply the body with the fuel it needs to live and is also essential to life. The body does not want to use this until the very very last resort. 

You can read about this in the study Cahill 1967 starvation and survival. Which is infact a really cool study. Here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2441175/pdf/tacca00114-0080.pdf . If an organism is onto using up their protein stores it is in grave grave danger (near death). Hopefully this is not you on your diet. Especially as you are not starving - you are consuming glucose and protein - and probably lots of it. Which will be turned into/used as glucose- the point of it is that even in this study of total complete starvation the amount of amino acids being used by the body is very small. I think they even found that your body in complete starvation did not even start utilising any extra alanine until over 1 week into the starvation and ketosis process. Pretty fucking cool (f*ck yeah survival!!!). Not sure if that is mentioned in this particular write up or a subsequent study or something of cahill.

If you care about this percieved loss of muscle then the best way to counteract it is to keep carbohydrates higher in your cutting diet and not cut them out and work on reducing overall calories. This will make sure muscle glycogen is always replenished and you are looking fuller and less flat. I'm sure there are arguments within reason about it if your calories are super low with low carbs for months you will probably lose some muscle no doubt - but hopefully people are smarter than to diet like this. But re the cardio issue - the fuel for endurance cardio is mainly lipid not glucose anyway. so it wouldnt be promoting the need for gluconeogenesis from amino acids anyway. if anything anaerobic(weights) would. 

Inb4 everyone hating because f*ck science. 

[Leeroid]

That would go a long way in explaining the anabolic rebound experienced by most bodybuilders where they will gain 10+kgs in a few weeks while remaining lean

[Dinahlady]

That would go a long way in explaining the anabolic rebound experienced by most bodybuilders where they will gain 10+kgs in a few weeks while remaining lean

yeah 100% - and its funny too because it actually does look like it's muscle tissue gain beause its all that carb and water soaking straight in to the muscle making the muscles look bigger/fuller, you also are probably supercompensating/loading too. Though there probably is a higher than normal rate of repair of any damage/microtrauma you've done over the last few months that's been lacking repair because of lower calories. Though it wont account for all of the gainzz there fat and increased food in yer gut too. 

its 3-4g of water per g of glycogen lost or gained, amount of glycogen you can hold is dependent on your muscle mass and ive also read stuff that long term strength training increases the amount of glycogen you can hold in a muscle, as well as carb loading which you will have been essentially doing (low carbs then post show heaps of carbs). So potentially quite a few kgs there.