Water Consumption While Cutting

[StussyNz]

Hey Guys,

Just started my Cut; What would be the recommended Water intake for me per day? Currently sitting at 87kg Lean body mass I can imagine would be 87-82kg.

Any Suggestions/Help would be much appericiated.

[Dinahlady]

imo water consumption is an individual thing - ofc at least 2-2.5L a day, but I would start by just drinking when you're thirsty for one day and keep tabs on it and look how much it was. If it was less than 2L - yeah you probably need to work on keeping tabs of having more, but you dont need to force 4L down you. 

 

It also depends how much exercise and cardio you do, if you sweat a heaps, your individual electrolye and solute concentration in your blood, what your body is and wants to retain, and how much water content is in your food (lots of fruit and veg vs none). 

Your body is amazing at regulating your water intake/output. It's kept us humans alive for 1000s years... Your Kidneys process 180L water per day, you are made up of about 40L of water. Your body creates water through metabolic processes. It reabsorbed 9 - 11L of water from bodily secretions. blah blah list goes on. 

The 2-4L you put in is just to balance the water going out from sweat and poop and breathing, you just wee out the excess. and your body adjusts for it all. Having ADH In your system (the hormone that makes you retain water and one of the ones that makes you get darker wees) isn't harmful to you, it is there ALL the time (if it wasn't you'd be pissing 25L a day regardless of intake) - we were built to regulate water volume. Getting a teensy bit of darker pee once in a while doesn't mean you've lost all your gains (losses) and wont affect fatty acid metabolism by much if at all, your body is basically a big bag of salty water... it aint worried. 

So yeah - just check what you're having in a normal day without forcing yourself. are you drinking more than 2-2.5L of fluids (coffee/tea/protein shakes water content does count) ? 

 

[StussyNz]

 

imo water consumption is an individual thing - ofc at least 2-2.5L a day, but I would start by just drinking when you're thirsty for one day and keep tabs on it and look how much it was. If it was less than 2L - yeah you probably need to work on keeping tabs of having more, but you dont need to force 4L down you. 

 

It also depends how much exercise and cardio you do, if you sweat a heaps, your individual electrolye and solute concentration in your blood, what your body is and wants to retain, and how much water content is in your food (lots of fruit and veg vs none). 

Your body is amazing at regulating your water intake/output. It's kept us humans alive for 1000s years... Your Kidneys process 180L water per day, you are made up of about 40L of water. Your body creates water through metabolic processes. It reabsorbed 9 - 11L of water from bodily secretions. blah blah list goes on. 

The 2-4L you put in is just to balance the water going out from sweat and poop and breathing, you just wee out the excess. and your body adjusts for it all. Having ADH In your system (the hormone that makes you retain water and one of the ones that makes you get darker wees) isn't harmful to you, it is there ALL the time (if it wasn't you'd be pissing 25L a day regardless of intake) - we were built to regulate water volume. Getting a teensy bit of darker pee once in a while doesn't mean you've lost all your gains (losses) and wont affect fatty acid metabolism by much if at all, your body is basically a big bag of salty water... it aint worried. 

So yeah - just check what you're having in a normal day without forcing yourself. are you drinking more than 2-2.5L of fluids (coffee/tea/protein shakes water content does count) ? 

 

Thanks for your reply; Extremely helpful. I'm getting in way over 2L's a day; I'd say I'd take in atleast a Litre during my workout.

I don't know if you could shed some light on loosing water weight from the body could you? I've heard the key is to drink xtremes amount of water to piss it all out? What are your takes on this? Just want to know if I look at competing for my first time, want to know how i can loose water weight to look more firm and shredded.

[Dinahlady]

Haha, I'm probably not the person to talk to about it because I don't really believe in it. Also I'm not very credible as I have't competed before.

I think it's just tradition and myth - your body water is highly important to your survival and its very hard to effect it without prescription medications - if you could affect your interstitial  and extracellular fluid very easily with a couple of glasses of wine and some herbal diretics then you'd have people collapsing all over the place around you every day. I even asked this question to my renal physiology lecturer who lectures at med level and researches kidney physiology and he told me that its very very hard to try yourself out naturally. but then again he hasn't done a bodybuilding show (LOL), 

First of all, anyway, you need to be lean for any of it to really make a difference. In my opinion just diet so you can get as lean as possible, and don't count on any water coming off for your show. It's easy to say "oh yeah its just water bro that will come off" rather than work harder/smarter. 

Furthermore, if you try and dehydrate yourself you might just feel like shit and wont enjoy your show day as much, In categories like mens physique, bikini and figure the judges care a lot about how your stage presence and your personality comes across and you want to be feeling good to let that happen, you might also not be able to get as much of a pump and your muscles might not be able to get as full. But like I said I havent done any of it before and this is just going on what ive heard and read. 

If you look at jess coate she just posted a picture today of her - after 5 meals and crap loads of water - looking lean as. Top level girls like nicole wilkins and Erin dont really mess with their water or salt intake much. And the "pro maker" george farrah (a top bodybuilding coach at pro level) advises his clients not to mess with water and salt intake much at all. I understand male top level enhanced bodybuilders do sometimes have issues with subcutaneous water but that's a whole other ball game... 

But don't take what I say - Heaps of others will argue the other way and you'll find dozens of people who've competed countless times who swear by it and could give you a whole run down of what they do and many different approaches to it.  If I had to say - i reckon it's the carb up that makes the most difference - and you need water and some salt to digest and take in as much carbs as possible. Practice a carb up regularly and assess how you look, and what you look liek the morning after etc and just perfect that every week up to show day. Increasing your carb up as your diet progresses and you lead up to show and are decreasing carbs in the week. That way you'll have no surprises. 

Part of it, I guess, is about "experiencing" bodybuilding and I get that people want some different protocol to follow to make it feel special or maybe put their mind at ease that they will look good on the day. So go for it if you think it will help you in that way. But, like layne says, I've heard more often than not "oh my carb up went wrong" more than "nah my carb up really gave me that 10% extra edge and that's why i won" Maybe that's another reason for doing it - a nice lil scapegoat if you dont look how you want - which is a sound psychological device. 

Heres a video from someone respected in some circles that includes some of my veiws. 

Inb4 shitstorm - just saying my view. I totally respect that people do it and it "works for them". And again - im not a competetor. 

I mean theres nothing wrong with a couple of saunas and a glass of wine the night before but your sucess/placing wont be hinged on it - but you could look potentially 50% worse if you go too extreme but then it doenst go your way. 

[Gym rat]

When I was cutting for the Pan Pacific show I was drinking 5L of water  each day including the week leading up to show.I would not recamend dropping water when cutting because it can lots of strees on your liver etc plus it sounds to risky to do plus you best to drink 5L of water each day plus it helps flush all the crap out when going to the loo

[StussyNz]

Thanks guys; Some great advice.

[Pseudonym]

Yeah, water manipulation is a tricky thing. Get it right, and it can make you look 5% better. Get it wrong, and it makes you look 25% worse.

Unless you've got time to practice and experiment, I'd suggest not changing anything as you approach the competition.

[Riccardo]

You can't manipulate water like some people think you can, even with diuretrics. People, particularly bodybuilders, have a fundamental misunderstanding of fluid balance within the body. Firstly your body's fluid and electrolyte balance is critical to everyday functioning, the second you disrupt the balance your body immediately alters its production of hormones such as vasopressin and aldosterone to restore homeostasis. You cannot "trick" your body into doing anything. Vasopressin (ADH) levels don't remain suppressed for very long to allow you 'to flush water out' as the myth goes.

Electrolytes are also important and the exact ratio of intracellular:extracellular concentrations of electrolytes such as Na, K, Cl, Pi etc are all tightly regulated, very tightly regulated. All cells but particularly nerve and muscle require precise regulation of these ratios to function and they are beyond our control. As soon as they're altered, they will swing back the other way.

The only solute you can alter is glucose which is stored in muscle as glycogen, this is because glucose gradients across cells can affect fluid movement yet when intracellular glycogen stores in muscle increase, your body doesn't initially attempt to restore any kind of equilibrium. As a note, cutting water doesn't really do anything while carbing up, all it does is limit muscle cell volumisation. Your muscle is 70% water, why would you limit it? Abstaining from water for a few hours can make you appear a little bit drier as your body pulls water intravascularly but the downside is you also look flatter as it will draw from your muscle as well and limit glycogen storage. Water doesn't just chill out under your skin in huge amounts unless there is solute to keep it there, so unless you have "spilled over" it won't be an issue.

Even prescription diuretics do not preferentially reduce sub cutaneous (interstitial) water, they work at the level of the kidneys as do your body's natural hormones, not at the cell membrane of myocytes or in the vascular beds within muscle. So altering water at this level only serves to reduce total body water, water may be pulled intravascularly to some extent as blood volume is maintained. In other words it will make you slightly drier but also a lot flatter.

Moral of the story, drink plenty of water, carb up moderately to pull water intracellularly and get lean.enough to stop blaming a lack of definition on water retention.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

riccardos back!

 

[Optimass]

I do a water protochol with a water load and sodium push pre comp - it works.  People always try and say you cant manipulate it ... but you can.  You need to know hat you are doing though and review daily as you go. 

Pre-comp I generally build up form 5L day to 8 - 10L.  My weight for the last comp went from 120 to 110kg in 3 weeks.  I advertantly push all the potassium out of my system but I was about 12% bfat - looked about 8% on the day. 

May be an exception to the rules though aye/

[Optimass]

The only solute you can alter is glucose which is stored in muscle as glycogen, this is because glucose gradients across cells can affect fluid movement yet when intracellular glycogen stores in muscle increase, your body doesn't initially attempt to restore any kind of equilibrium. As a note, cutting water doesn't really do anything while carbing up, all it does is limit muscle cell volumisation. Your muscle is 70% water, why would you limit it? Abstaining from water for a few hours can make you appear a little bit drier as your body pulls water intravascularly but the downside is you also look flatter as it will draw from your muscle as well and limit glycogen storage. Water doesn't just chill out under your skin in huge amounts unless there is solute to keep it there, so unless you have "spilled over" it won't be an issue.

Moral of the story, drink plenty of water, carb up moderately to pull water intracellularly and get lean.enough to stop blaming a lack of definition on water retention.

^^ this.  Your body stores 1 water molecule to 2 glucose molecules in muscle.  In the absence of glucose (depletion) it will try and switch 2 water and one glucose provided you are hydrated very well.  An easy way to make this work is to drink more and add sodium as it washes through your system fast due to the increase in volume consumed.  Then when you half it and reduce your sodium intake before the comp, and begin your refeed of glucose the body can easily push glucose back in as the body begins to re-balance.  End result ... nice and full ... never flat. 

But it doesnt work if you are essentially not lean enough - no such thing as looking fat on stage because of water retention .... you are just fat - period. 

[Leeroid]

You can't manipulate water like some people think you can, even with diuretrics. People, particularly bodybuilders, have a fundamental misunderstanding of fluid balance within the body. Firstly your body's fluid and electrolyte balance is critical to everyday functioning, the second you disrupt the balance your body immediately alters its production of hormones such as vasopressin and aldosterone to restore homeostasis. You cannot "trick" your body into doing anything. Vasopressin (ADH) levels don't remain suppressed for very long to allow you 'to flush water out' as the myth goes.

Electrolytes are also important and the exact ratio of intracellular:extracellular concentrations of electrolytes such as Na, K, Cl, Pi etc are all tightly regulated, very tightly regulated. All cells but particularly nerve and muscle require precise regulation of these ratios to function and they are beyond our control. As soon as they're altered, they will swing back the other way.

The only solute you can alter is glucose which is stored in muscle as glycogen, this is because glucose gradients across cells can affect fluid movement yet when intracellular glycogen stores in muscle increase, your body doesn't initially attempt to restore any kind of equilibrium. As a note, cutting water doesn't really do anything while carbing up, all it does is limit muscle cell volumisation. Your muscle is 70% water, why would you limit it? Abstaining from water for a few hours can make you appear a little bit drier as your body pulls water intravascularly but the downside is you also look flatter as it will draw from your muscle as well and limit glycogen storage. Water doesn't just chill out under your skin in huge amounts unless there is solute to keep it there, so unless you have "spilled over" it won't be an issue.

Even prescription diuretics do not preferentially reduce sub cutaneous (interstitial) water, they work at the level of the kidneys as do your body's natural hormones, not at the cell membrane of myocytes or in the vascular beds within muscle. So altering water at this level only serves to reduce total body water, water may be pulled intravascularly to some extent as blood volume is maintained. In other words it will make you slightly drier but also a lot flatter.

Moral of the story, drink plenty of water, carb up moderately to pull water intracellularly and get lean.enough to stop blaming a lack of definition on water retention.

Sick post. Repped.