How can I deadlift without breaking myself?

[Pseudonym]

So I'd like to start deadlifting a bit more. Trouble is, every time I try, I put my back out.

Last time, I was on a warmup set and consciously thinking about my form (straight back, etc) and I still managed to tweak it. So I'm throwing it open to our experts here to find me a solution.

 

Patient history

My first back issue was a couple of years ago, and it wasn't in the gym. I don't actually know how I hurt it, but slouching for a long drive back from holiday probably didn't help. That night it started feeling pretty stiff, and by the next morning I was getting pins and needles in my left foot. Turns out a bulging disc was pressing on the nerve. A couple of days later, and I couldn't wiggle my toes. So whatever I did to myself, I did it well! It took a few months to fully recover from that one.

Since then, deadlifts have been dicey. Sometime I get away with it, but frequently it causes a flare-up.

Yet I can do bent-over rows just fine.

 

Physio suggestions

Don't slouch at work - that just opens up the vertebrae and allows the disc to bulge again.

Do "cobra" hyperextensions between sets to help squeeze the disc back into place.

 

That's good, but it's not enough. So what do you reckon? Is it a muscle weakness I can strengthen? Or a muscle tightness I can stretch?

[Kalidane]

All I know is that for my shoulder I had to:

- do stretches and stabiliser strengthening exercises while waiting for the inflammation to go down (this meant doing nothing that would aggravate the inflammed area)

 

- then ummm more stretching and stabiliser stuffs.  I repeatedly tried 'normal' exercises at the gym and set back recovery.  don't do this step.

 

- now continuing the stretches and stabiliser stuffs, and adding in 3 exercises which were on the banned list with very very light weights and low reps.  reps can be increased with time.

 

- in a fortnight, i'll likely be set to continue the above and add back 2-3 more exercises from the banned list and things should be well on the way to normal, and far better protected from future injury than they've ever been.

 

I assume this overall pattern is pretty typical.  I don't know lower back biomechanical science flimflam so I'll pass on the specifics, but the pattern I've observed in myself and others is that there is usually both weak and stretched stuff that needs strengthening, and tight strong stuff that needs stretching.

 

It kinda sounds blindingly obvious as I write it but I doubt I was conscious of it a year ago (actually I still need stronger abs and stretchier back myself for posture and stability).

 

I sometimes feel we can get distracted by the new shiny thing we read about and we forget some of the lessons we've already learned... perhaps I just have particularly limited capacity lol

[jimmybro1]

Might be worth working on flexibitiy of your lower and upper back as well. If you aren't to flexibility chances are your form isn't to good when deadlifting no matter how much you try to deadlift correctly. 

I also had a bulging disk from deadlifting a few years ago took 2-3 years off doing them as a result. All I did up to that date was working more on core strength and flexibitiy. I might be worth doing some heavy rack pulls (from the knee or slightly below) to help strengthen your low back.

Once your low back is use to be tortured then try deadlifting. Goodmornings are also good work hamstrings, glutes and lower back well IMO. 

 

[Monarchking]

Try trap bar deadlifts 

[Dinahlady]

Yep - Start doing more flexbility work - there can be 100 reasons why your lower back has gotten the way it is. Tight hips/hip flexors/hamstrings contributing to dysfunctional spread of tension through the muscles. comparitively weak core. Sometimes upper back is really restricted (thoracic, intercostals, lats, traps, delts) which causes lower back to take more of the tension. There's hundreds of other potential reasons and combinations of reasons. 

So in general flexibility work will help you work through whatever it is that's causing issues, alongside working up slowly and really lightly with exercies suggested (glute bridges, good mornings, high step ups, core work)  and light deadlifts will eventually strengthen and stretch every muscle associated and joint capsule that is contributing to the symptoms. (with adequate rest and nutrition as well ofcourse) 

In short - you probably need to do more of ALL the things you think you need to do, not just do one or two specific things a lot. 

 

[ringsport]

As mentioned trap bar could work if u hav one or rack pulls, once back gets stronger lower pins.

[nate225]

Erry body wanna talk about ya back..... my approach is different. 

If the diagram don't help ya I'll spell it out Peso....but I know you're a clever lad! *biggrin*

[Pseudonym]

Thanks guys, and sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. (I did read and appreciate all the comments, but haven't had a chance till now to reply)

 

Trap bar - I've never used one (never trained at a gym that had one), but is the idea that by stepping inside it, your back can remain more upright, rather than bent over forwards? If so, could you acheive the same thing with dumbell deadlifts? (I never liked them before, but when you're desperate...)

Rack pulls - Good call. I'd forgotten about these. The problem usually seems to kick in at the very bottom of the deadlift, so rack pulls might be just the answer. Will implement immediately.

Stretching - My lower back and hammies seem to be pretty good. But my upper back is really inflexible, and I do need to work on that. Especially my lats. Possibly hip flexors could do with a bit of loosening up too. It's one of those things that I know I SHOULD do, but just never have time for after my workout. Maybe I need to dedicate a day for stretching, and go to the gym just with that purpose in mind. *sigh*

Transverse abs - I've been hitting them hard through this ab routine, Nate. So hopefully that's helping. You've beeing using it too, haven't you? Do you think it's helped strengthen yours?

[nate225]

Transverse abs - I've been hitting them hard through this ab routine, Nate. So hopefully that's helping. You've beeing using it too, haven't you? Do you think it's helped strengthen yours?

Yeah - I've been doing that routine, definitely made my rectis abdominis thicker, which was what I set out to achieve. Unsure about TA's, which are pretty strong now given how piss weak they were years ago. But more to the point I can activate them easily to protect my back, that is really what I was vaguely meaning by TA's. '

When you squat and deadlift actively engage your TA's to protect your back. It's a bit robotic to start with but eventually it becomes habit. 

[Pseudonym]

Last time my back threw a spaz, I'd just finished talking to someone about the importance of good form on deadlifts, so I was consciously focusing on engaging TAs - and it still went pop (and on a warmup weight, too)

FUUUU...!

[nate225]

Last time my back threw a spaz, I'd just finished talking to someone about the importance of good form on deadlifts, so I was consciously focusing on engaging TAs - and it still went pop (and on a warmup weight, too)

FUUUU...!

Hmmm maybe time to consider another hobby old man?

Check out who's sponsoring Tiddly Winks these days....solid! *mosking*

[Dinahlady]

Just stretch at home with youtube. Seriously - people dont utilise this enough. Just search (thoracic spine stretching routine) - or (twisting yoga routine (maybe put beginner as well hehe)) and you'll be amazed ..... srs. when you find one you like just do in eve every other/couple of days... its takes you having to think about what stretches to do out of the equasion and just follow the vid... 

 

[Pseudonym]

Just search (thoracic spine stretching routine)

I just made a pretzel.

[Optimass]

hard to say without seeing you do a set.  IMO - your form is probably not so good.  There could be a number of factors ... not tucked in tight with shoulder over bar ... lifting in sneakers ... losing tightness due to breathing ... muscle imbalance (tight hammies - this was me) ...

Post a vid of your tech good place to start

Have seen another trainer get a 40 year old woman who broke her back 3 years earlier to do bodyweight deadlifts in first session. 

 

[Dinahlady]

looks awesome (they are all yoga poses too hehe ) 

although I felt slightly brainwashed by the amount of underarmour present....

 

This ones got some classics (not sure what he says as watched on silent)

 

[Kalidane]

Thanks guys, and sorry I didn't get back to this sooner. (I did read and appreciate all the comments, but haven't had a chance till now to reply)

 

Trap bar - I've never used one (never trained at a gym that had one), but is the idea that by stepping inside it, your back can remain more upright, rather than bent over forwards? If so, could you acheive the same thing with dumbell deadlifts? (I never liked them before, but when you're desperate...)

Rack pulls - Good call. I'd forgotten about these. The problem usually seems to kick in at the very bottom of the deadlift, so rack pulls might be just the answer. Will implement immediately.

Stretching - My lower back and hammies seem to be pretty good. But my upper back is really inflexible, and I do need to work on that. Especially my lats. Possibly hip flexors could do with a bit of loosening up too. It's one of those things that I know I SHOULD do, but just never have time for after my workout. Maybe I need to dedicate a day for stretching, and go to the gym just with that purpose in mind. *sigh*

Transverse abs - I've been hitting them hard through this ab routine, Nate. So hopefully that's helping. You've beeing using it too, haven't you? Do you think it's helped strengthen yours?

Totally know what you mean about stretching dude.  I was good and regular with that erry day while roofing but a lot of it kinda stopped when I retired to office stuffs.  Not that fussed on anything unrelated to shoulder rehab for now.

 

This from a tab I have open:  http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/LatissimusDorsi/Wall.html

 

Haven't quite tried them yet but it's pretty close to the top of my things to do list, honest!

[mrgeeky]

So I'd like to start deadlifting a bit more. Trouble is, every time I try, I put my back out.

Last time, I was on a warmup set and consciously thinking about my form (straight back, etc) and I still managed to tweak it. So I'm throwing it open to our experts here to find me a solution.

 

Patient history

My first back issue was a couple of years ago, and it wasn't in the gym. I don't actually know how I hurt it, but slouching for a long drive back from holiday probably didn't help. That night it started feeling pretty stiff, and by the next morning I was getting pins and needles in my left foot. Turns out a bulging disc was pressing on the nerve. A couple of days later, and I couldn't wiggle my toes. So whatever I did to myself, I did it well! It took a few months to fully recover from that one.

Since then, deadlifts have been dicey. Sometime I get away with it, but frequently it causes a flare-up.

Yet I can do bent-over rows just fine.

 

Physio suggestions

Don't slouch at work - that just opens up the vertebrae and allows the disc to bulge again.

Do "cobra" hyperextensions between sets to help squeeze the disc back into place.

 

That's good, but it's not enough. So what do you reckon? Is it a muscle weakness I can strengthen? Or a muscle tightness I can stretch?

Heya mate, same problem.. My back is fine the majority of the time..  But if I try deadlifts or squats it doesnt take long for my back to play up.. Had to stay away from those main two exercises all my life..  Also my back doesnt like situps or leg raises..

Funny thing is I can do leg raises on a steep incline or I can do cable crunches with reasonably heavy weights and my back is fine..

If I try to deadlift or do squats, my back gets sore and usually goes out for a few days..  I find using one of those rubber back belts to support the back muslces aids in recovery much quicker.

I have a funny feeling in my circumstance its compression of the spine.. I used to have one of those back hanging machines.. Back invertors or something they are called, and it seemed to help a lot when the old back went out when ever I tried to deadlift or do squats..

Lately I found I can get away with squats if I use a standing calf raise stack weight machine and add weights on to the top of it..  So that was going to be my next suggestion, a trap bar..

I think a Trap Bar would work in my case too.. I have been trying to talk the gym in to getting one but they dont want to know about it.. In the mean time using the standing calf machine and adding 20kg weights on to the top of it works.. Got to be careful, not allowed to add the weights so I only do it when none of the staff or trainers are about lol

Then over the last few years I have found sitting at a desk in front of a computer had started giving my back shit..  I started getting sciatica down my leg and my back and glutes got really sore.. I dont have much faith in physios.. Every time I go to see them they give me a heap of crappy little time wasting exercies that dont do jack for me..

But out of desperation I went to one as my doc was talking about getting x-rays etc.. I told the physio I wasnt in to all these stupid little time wasting exercies.. And for once a physio agreed with me. He said, he doesnt offer people lots of those silly exercises because no one has the time to do them and usually no one does them anyway.. He said though, there is one definite exercise worth trying before going to get an x-ray..  The Plank.. Stabalise the core etc. To cut a long story short, I tried it and it worked. Just your basic plank but then add in a leg raise each side and hold for a count of 100..

Worked like a charm for me. i do them every training session now along with my stretches. Now no back problems caused by stting at the desk all day. If I stop stretching and stop the plank my back starts playing up again..

I still cant do squats or deadlifts though.. Unless Im using something that keeps me in a more upright postion as calf raise machine.. Im dying to try a trap bar.  Was even thinking of buying one myself to put in to the gym we are in..

Hope theres something in that lot that helps..

 

 

[Pseudonym]

Planks, eh? OK, I'll add them to the list as well.

I might have a play around with all these things tomorrow if I get time after the NABBA-WFF show. Cheers guys!

[Indigo1]

I found keeping the volume low helped me. I limit the reps to 6 and only do 2-3 sets....had heaps of back issues doing any more than this. Also do them first in your routine. I also do some ab exercise to warm the core up and make sure the muscles around there are gunna do there job. Some/all of that is probably broscience, but it has helped me do them pain free.

[Kalidane]

Planks, eh? OK, I'll add them to the list as well.

I might have a play around with all these things tomorrow if I get time after the NABBA-WFF show. Cheers guys!

 

Sooo how did this all work out?

 

Plenty of rackpulls working for ya?

[Pseudonym]

Not really, to be honest. I'm deadlifting when I can, but lower back problems keep recurring. On Sunday I basically had to flag a leg workout. Even just a warmup set of squats was causing me issues. It's still not good today. Pretty sure it was because I'd just spent the entire weekend slouched in front of the computer, so I've only got myself to blame. Still, it sucks.

[AZIDE]

Not really, to be honest. I'm deadlifting when I can, but lower back problems keep recurring. On Sunday I basically had to flag a leg workout. Even just a warmup set of squats was causing me issues. It's still not good today. Pretty sure it was because I'd just spent the entire weekend slouched in front of the computer, so I've only got myself to blame. Still, it sucks.

yeah sitting in front of a computer for hours on end is one of the worst things for your back if its already a bit fucked IME

[Terrymundo]

Extreme option:

 

I had constant re-occuring lumbar issues as a teenager mainly due to my hobby at the time, motocross. I had on-going issues with putting my backout and alignment was alwyas out. One serious accident had cracked my L3 and pushed my disc completely out. the surgeon suggested with my history to put hinging brace onto my L3 and L2 which only allows restrited movement between the two. So a few surgerys later I had my disks, plates and screws installed and I am happy I did. My back it solid as a rock and gives me minimal grief, my mobilty is great too.

 

One step closer to becoming robocop

[Dinahlady]

You just need to find someone who can really help - there are people out there. Find a senior physio who specialises in lumar spine, or sports med doctor and follow thier advice and take responsibility for all the rehab.... possibly also find another good trainer who can give you a second opinion on your technique in all movements and strength/weakness/imbalances etc - there may be something your current trainer is overlooking. 

[PainFades]

+1 on the trap-bar deadlifts, it's worked for me.  Also, a good quality $$$ "executive" office chair works wonders if you have an office job.  I also use one at home instead of the lazyboy...