Special report: More Kiwis will die from steroid use, warns

[vracula]

another amazing article from the herald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=10891006

"Over the next two days the Herald tells the stories of two young Kiwis whose deaths were directly linked to steroid use.

A coroner's inquest ruled Kris McKenzie's suicide in Invercargill in 1999 was a direct result of his steroid use.

Five years later, another Kiwi teenager, Kieran McNamara, took his own life after developing a mental illness attributed to his steroid use.

wtf?

steroid causing mental Illness?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/steve-deane/n ... d=10890944

[Gain results]

I wunder weather the govt will impose tougher laws (fines)in regards to possession and importing of peptides and steriods etc.....because of this.

[I Declare War]

What a load of crap. Who's behind this stupid reporting.

[soundsgood]

I don't know where to begin with such a biased report.

The Rugby league hooker who had tested positive to Growth hormone and been banned from playing for two years was probably pretty depressed about that but no he had taken Deca the week before he committed suicide so lets blame it on that.

Perhaps the medical community might consider coming off gear with no pct a legitimate issue and be able to prescribe Nolva/Clomid and HCG so people can come off without the sides the young guy experienced, kind of like methadone for Heroin addicts. Dreams are free

[Android]

I thought this article was pretty accurate.

Hormone fluctuations can "control" mood not just "affect" it, many here know first hand the effects of some compounds on the mind. I wouldn't underplay the effects of gear just because I take it.

OTT reactions are common while taking or coming off steroids and where before he might have been predisposed to dark thoughts, the steroids brought them out of thoughts and into actions.

I believe, SRS

[soundsgood]

He was just using test prop Android. Not tren etc

[Android]

He was just using test prop Android. Not tren etc

yep I read that, but he went off it they said.

I can attest to the low feeling when coming off and not using proper PCT cos I think I skipped PCT for my first 3-4 cycles and can remember a whole week of feeling really low, stomach cramps, moody, lethargy etc.

Dunno, but I wouldn't discount steroid use as benign. Steroid use to help his self-image perception killed Zyzz, I don't know any "normal" people that go to Thailand and sit in saunas.

Some guys are perfectly fine mood-wise others are real a-holes on it. Think this guy went cold turkey off it didn't he?

[I Declare War]

He was just using test prop Android. Not tren etc

yep I read that, but he went off it they said.

I can attest to the low feeling when coming off and not using proper PCT cos I think I skipped PCT for my first 3-4 cycles and can remember a whole week of feeling really low, stomach cramps, moody, lethargy etc.

Dunno, but I wouldn't discount steroid use as benign. Steroid use to help his self-image perception killed Zyzz, I don't know any "normal" people that go to Thailand and sit in saunas.

Some guys are perfectly fine mood-wise others are real a-holes on it. Think this guy went cold turkey off it didn't he?

I'm with Android on this. True some compounds increase the a-hole factor by a lot. But, Steroid users are inherently somewhat unstable, some more-so than others. If you're not prepared, coming off can be a hell of a time, especially if you need to be around family and friends.

What's wrong with going to Thailand to sit in a sauna? Hmm

[Dinahlady]

I think it can be good to make people aware that there can be risks for individuals on mental health and mood if you take steroids - I definitely believe in that.

But maybe it is more that people who are prone to mental health issues are more likely to take gear AND THEN be negatively affected by it and unable to cope.

Part of me thinks it's a little bit of a cop out for the govt. Maybe if they had much better mental health awareness programs and facilities/help for people in NZ their disordered thinking wouldn't be perpetuated so much that it would come to this as you'd have to be quite far down the road to get in such a mess.

This person has been failed by the social services not by the drug laws.

[musclenz]

This type of reporting angers & concerns me greatly. Many of you will know of my personal situation & I have been reluctant to comment on topics on the forums accordingly, however, I feel strongly motivated to make a few comments on this subject.

Firstly, I can't believe they have got the importation seizure numbers correct. 122 for 2012 is minimal & in comparison to the seizures of methamphetamine related drugs is minuscule & has a street value of a fraction of a % compared to P & other rec drugs far more destructive to society & users.

Secondly, where are the clinical studies, the coroners report & the hard evidence linking the use of Testosterone to these two deaths. Come on, it could & will be, one of a myriad of other possibilities. Some people who use PEDs, like alcohol & prescription medications, are always going to be vulnerable to the "side effects" & will not have the mental maturity to handle these. Sure, there is recommended methods of delivery & recovery that should be adhered to but generally even in there absence, there is not a huge risk to physical or mental health. But like every drug scenario, there are a few exceptions & users should be made aware of these & places like this are helpful in that way.

Thirdly, this type of sensational reporting is completely biased towards the "abuse" of drugs & gives no credence to, in case of Steroids, to there totally acceptable & condoned clinical use in medicine & anti-aging for many years, for the treatment of a number of conditions in both males & females.

Finally, I do not condone the use of PEDs by teenagers any more than I do for alcohol in excess or recreational drugs because invariably, young people have not had enough life experience to make informed decisions & deal with the consequences of it on their bodies & minds. I am deeply concerned that we are seeing this growing movement by the "Powers that Be" to sensationalise & demonise these normally safe drugs & place those involved in there use & supply into the criminal category that is totally beyond what they deserve. Let's face it, in 10-20 years Peptides & Steroids are going to be just a normal part of society in sport & general well being & are no more dangerous to health than many of the OTC drugs we can obtain legally.

I'm sick & tired of the "False Puppet Media" & the way it represents "Facts" to a blinded readership. This story is just a drop in the ocean of lies, untruths & propaganda that has surfaced over recent years. May the Truth set us Free!

[atrollappears]

Before his death, Kris' arms often displayed bruising consistent with needle marks. ............... Is it just me, or is something not quite right here..?

To agree with Android & IDW:

There is evidence to suggest fluctuations in hormonal balance in particular estrogen can effect serotonin levels and consiquence depression..

Involvement of estrogen receptor β in maintenance of serotonergic neurons of the dorsal raphe

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22665260

Selective estrogen receptor-beta (SERM-beta) compounds modulate raphe nuclei tryptophan hydroxylase-1 (TPH-1) mRNA expression and cause antidepressant-like effects in the forced swim test.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22796107

Polymorphisms of estrogen receptors and risk of depression: therapeutic implications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22901010

Estrogen receptor alpha gene variants and major depressive episodes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22051074

[I Declare War]

Before his death, Kris' arms often displayed bruising consistent with needle marks. ............... Is it just me, or is something not quite right here..?

To agree with Android & IDW:

There is evidence to suggest fluctuations in hormonal balance in particular estrogen can effect serotonin levels and consiquence depression..

Involvement of estrogen receptor β in maintenance of serotonergic neurons of the dorsal raphe

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22665260

Selective estrogen receptor-beta (SERM-beta) compounds modulate raphe nuclei tryptophan hydroxylase-1 (TPH-1) mRNA expression and cause antidepressant-like effects in the forced swim test.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22796107

Polymorphisms of estrogen receptors and risk of depression: therapeutic implications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22901010

Estrogen receptor alpha gene variants and major depressive episodes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22051074

He probably hadn't learned not to use 18g's

[Android]

This type of reporting angers & concerns me greatly. Many of you will know of my personal situation & I have been reluctant to comment on topics on the forums accordingly, however, I feel strongly motivated to make a few comments on this subject.

Firstly, I can't believe they have got the importation seizure numbers correct. 122 for 2012 is minimal & in comparison to the seizures of methamphetamine related drugs is minuscule & has a street value of a fraction of a % compared to P & other rec drugs far more destructive to society & users.

Secondly, where are the clinical studies, the coroners report & the hard evidence linking the use of Testosterone to these two deaths. Come on, it could & will be, one of a myriad of other possibilities. Some people who use PEDs, like alcohol & prescription medications, are always going to be vulnerable to the "side effects" & will not have the mental maturity to handle these. Sure, there is recommended methods of delivery & recovery that should be adhered to but generally even in there absence, there is not a huge risk to physical or mental health. But like every drug scenario, there are a few exceptions & users should be made aware of these & places like this are helpful in that way.

Thirdly, this type of sensational reporting is completely biased towards the "abuse" of drugs & gives no credence to, in case of Steroids, to there totally acceptable & condoned clinical use in medicine & anti-aging for many years, for the treatment of a number of conditions in both males & females.

Finally, I do not condone the use of PEDs by teenagers any more than I do for alcohol in excess or recreational drugs because invariably, young people have not had enough life experience to make informed decisions & deal with the consequences of it on their bodies & minds. I am deeply concerned that we are seeing this growing movement by the "Powers that Be" to sensationalise & demonise these normally safe drugs & place those involved in there use & supply into the criminal category that is totally beyond what they deserve. Let's face it, in 10-20 years Peptides & Steroids are going to be just a normal part of society in sport & general well being & are no more dangerous to health than many of the OTC drugs we can obtain legally.

I'm sick & tired of the "False Puppet Media" & the way it represents "Facts" to a blinded readership. This story is just a drop in the ocean of lies, untruths & propaganda that has surfaced over recent years. May the Truth set us Free!

In the same way a drunk person falls off a balcony of apartments, on the coroner's report would be... "death was attributed to severance of brachial arteries, hemorrhage and shock...." but the underlying cause leading to the brachial arteries ripping apart....is alcohol wouldn't you agree?

One could argue it was "inability to balance on the railing" :shock: but my point is about strong correlation.

So on this poor young guys coroner's report it will be "by suffocation" or "by inhalation" or whatever he did to end his life as you probably already know.

There isn't likely ever going to be direct correlation to dying by Testosterone Propionate injection, just the correlation and that's the point of the parents concern, that without steroids they believe his mood was not so erratic and dark.

From the way I read into it anyway.

I believe we see the same with the use of K2. Someone just drowned. K2 is to blame for that but the cause of death is too much water in the lungs or whatever.

[Android]

musclenz wrote:

This type of reporting angers & concerns me greatly. Many of you will know of my personal situation & I have been reluctant to comment on topics on the forums accordingly, however, I feel strongly motivated to make a few comments on this subject.

Firstly, I can't believe they have got the importation seizure numbers correct. 122 for 2012 is minimal & in comparison to the seizures of methamphetamine related drugs is minuscule & has a street value of a fraction of a % compared to P & other rec drugs far more destructive to society & users.

Secondly, where are the clinical studies, the coroners report & the hard evidence linking the use of Testosterone to these two deaths. Come on, it could & will be, one of a myriad of other possibilities. Some people who use PEDs, like alcohol & prescription medications, are always going to be vulnerable to the "side effects" & will not have the mental maturity to handle these. Sure, there is recommended methods of delivery & recovery that should be adhered to but generally even in there absence, there is not a huge risk to physical or mental health. But like every drug scenario, there are a few exceptions & users should be made aware of these & places like this are helpful in that way.

Thirdly, this type of sensational reporting is completely biased towards the "abuse" of drugs & gives no credence to, in case of Steroids, to there totally acceptable & condoned clinical use in medicine & anti-aging for many years, for the treatment of a number of conditions in both males & females.

Finally, I do not condone the use of PEDs by teenagers any more than I do for alcohol in excess or recreational drugs because invariably, young people have not had enough life experience to make informed decisions & deal with the consequences of it on their bodies & minds. I am deeply concerned that we are seeing this growing movement by the "Powers that Be" to sensationalise & demonise these normally safe drugs & place those involved in there use & supply into the criminal category that is totally beyond what they deserve. Let's face it, in 10-20 years Peptides & Steroids are going to be just a normal part of society in sport & general well being & are no more dangerous to health than many of the OTC drugs we can obtain legally.

I'm sick & tired of the "False Puppet Media" & the way it represents "Facts" to a blinded readership. This story is just a drop in the ocean of lies, untruths & propaganda that has surfaced over recent years. May the Truth set us Free!

[musclenz]

Android, I agree to a certain extent but feel your analogies are somewhat flawed in that alcohol & K2 are not manufactured naturally in the body & their use can be attributed to mental & physical disorder. But testosterone is a naturally occurring hormone & therefore the correlation & implication that it formed part of the cause of death is always going to be subjective. However, I'm not that biased to not agree with the fact that excessive or uncontrolled use of PEDs can attribute to anxiety, depression & other mental disorders in the uninitiated user. But definitely not to the destructive & uncontrollable effects that the other two can.

[musclenz]

Android, I agree to a certain extent but feel your analogies are somewhat flawed in that alcohol & K2 are not manufactured naturally in the body & their use can be attributed to mental & physical disorder. But testosterone is a naturally occurring hormone & therefore the correlation & implication that it formed part of the cause of death is always going to be subjective. However, I'm not that biased to not agree with the fact that excessive or uncontrolled use of PEDs can attribute to anxiety, depression & other mental disorders in the uninitiated user. But definitely not to the destructive & uncontrollable effects that the other two can.

[kiwicannon]

I'm with Android on this. True some compounds increase the a-hole factor by a lot. But, Steroid users are inherently somewhat unstable, some more-so than others. If you're not prepared, coming off can be a hell of a time, especially if you need to be around family and friends.

I agree also not from what ive read or from what i heard but from personal experience, Tren really turns me into a Class 1 A-Hole one minute i feel like a god then on the other hand im an emotional grenade, then when im off AAS i get fricken depressed so yes Steroid users are most definatley unstable creatures...god kudos to my wife who puts up with my shit :naughty: :^o ...well some of the time :nod:

[kiwicannon]

I Declare War wrote:

I'm with Android on this. True some compounds increase the a-hole factor by a lot. But, Steroid users are inherently somewhat unstable, some more-so than others. If you're not prepared, coming off can be a hell of a time, especially if you need to be around family and friends.

[I Declare War]

Thanks for quoting me kiwicannon 8)

Android, I agree to a certain extent but feel your analogies are somewhat flawed in that alcohol & K2 are not manufactured naturally in the body & their use can be attributed to mental & physical disorder. But testosterone is a naturally occurring hormone & therefore the correlation & implication that it formed part of the cause of death is always going to be subjective. However, I'm not that biased to not agree with the fact that excessive or uncontrolled use of PEDs can attribute to anxiety, depression & other mental disorders in the uninitiated user. But definitely not to the destructive & uncontrollable effects that the other two can.

In the same vein, morphine is also naturally produced. So, let's condone Heroin usage.

[I Declare War]

Thanks for quoting me kiwicannon

musclenz wrote:

Android, I agree to a certain extent but feel your analogies are somewhat flawed in that alcohol & K2 are not manufactured naturally in the body & their use can be attributed to mental & physical disorder. But testosterone is a naturally occurring hormone & therefore the correlation & implication that it formed part of the cause of death is always going to be subjective. However, I'm not that biased to not agree with the fact that excessive or uncontrolled use of PEDs can attribute to anxiety, depression & other mental disorders in the uninitiated user. But definitely not to the destructive & uncontrollable effects that the other two can.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

as justin said, it's easy as hell to get them from any gym, have been approached a couple times already at mine and i've seen that same guy go up to tonnes of other naive looking young guys some of whom have bloated up in the months since (and i'm not trying to undermine their hard work/efforts here just implying it's obvious they said yes to him)

not saying there is something wrong with the drugs but they are a controlled substance for good reason. these 'average joes' aren't necessarily aware of the effects they can have on them such as those android pointed out in relation to hormone changes -> depression/other mental problems/dependencies.

"more kiwis will die from steroid use" - true, it is getting more popular and lots of dicks people will just be experimenting with it without considering dosages/pcts or whatever else is involved.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

as justin said, it's easy as hell to get them from any gym, have been approached a couple times already at mine and i've seen that same guy go up to tonnes of other naive looking young guys some of whom have bloated up in the months since (and i'm not trying to undermine their hard work/efforts here just implying it's obvious they said yes to him)

not saying there is something wrong with the drugs but they are a controlled substance for good reason. these 'average joes' aren't necessarily aware of the effects they can have on them such as those android pointed out in relation to hormone changes -> depression/other mental problems/dependencies.

"more kiwis will die from steroid use" - true, it is getting more popular and lots of dicks people will just be experimenting with it without considering dosages/pcts or whatever else is involved.

[michaelk]

[

In the same way a drunk person falls off a balcony of apartments, on the coroner's report would be... "death was attributed to severance of brachial arteries, hemorrhage and shock...." but the underlying cause leading to the brachial arteries ripping apart....is alcohol wouldn't you agree?

One could argue it was "inability to balance on the railing" :shock: but my point is about strong correlation.

.

I saw an ambulance on the motorway the other day that was sponsored by the Lion Foundation (alcohol funded charity in NZ)....I wondered how many people rode in it from Drunk Driving crashes or Alcohol Fueled Domestic Violence, but it's ok everyone....Lion donated half a percent (my guess) of their profits to make up for it:)

[michaelk]

Android wrote:

[

In the same way a drunk person falls off a balcony of apartments, on the coroner's report would be... "death was attributed to severance of brachial arteries, hemorrhage and shock...." but the underlying cause leading to the brachial arteries ripping apart....is alcohol wouldn't you agree?

One could argue it was "inability to balance on the railing" but my point is about strong correlation.

.

[musclenz]

Thanks for quoting me kiwicannon 8)

Android, I agree to a certain extent but feel your analogies are somewhat flawed in that alcohol & K2 are not manufactured naturally in the body & their use can be attributed to mental & physical disorder. But testosterone is a naturally occurring hormone & therefore the correlation & implication that it formed part of the cause of death is always going to be subjective. However, I'm not that biased to not agree with the fact that excessive or uncontrolled use of PEDs can attribute to anxiety, depression & other mental disorders in the uninitiated user. But definitely not to the destructive & uncontrollable effects that the other two can.

In the same vein, morphine is also naturally produced. So, let's condone Heroin usage.

"Heroin only becomes morphine once it crosses the blood-brain barrier into the neurological system, where it hits with approximately 3 times the potency per measure of morphine".

I think you are missing the point of my argument IWD :roll: Testosterone even in its exogenous form is a relatively harmless compound and should not be measured up against methamphetamine, alcohol & other far more destructive mechanisms. Sure, derivatives of Test like Trenbolone are powerful and psychologically addictive compounds, but used in a responsible manner can be relatively safe. Every known substance, including most foods, are harmful if abused & not taken in moderation & with consideration of the human body's needs.