eating 6 small clean meals a day or more

[mrgeeky]

why do the main stream body builders still follow this diet pattern?

[jimmybro1]

Cause its to hard to eat the portions of food they have to eat in fewer sittings perhaps...

Or might be something to do with the drugs they take.

They also have the time to prepare meals etc (the few that don't work). A few pro's don't follow meal timing principals.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

i agree with jimmy about the fact that it might have something to do with not wanting to be bloated down to useless energy levels so they separate the meals but..

sometimes i doubt whether they actually do this or if it's just to satisfy the needs of their supplement company sponsors. after all, it is better for them to have people believe 6 to 8 meals is ideal and that if they happen to be too lazy to make 4 or 5 of them they can make up for it with their meal replacement/whey/casein/weight gainer shakes.

probably more to it like something to do with insulin or maybe dudes that big with that much gear require a constant stream of aminos through their system to keep anabolic/maximise benefits of gear or w/e /broscience

[mrgeeky]

must make life hard though, constantly trying to organize small regular meals like that.. Imagine if you travelled or were on the road a lot..

I can understand people doing it as a full time job but for the average body builder that's more in to it for the fun or just to look good.

A lot of effort..

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

must make life hard though, constantly trying to organize small regular meals like that.. Imagine if you travelled or were on the road a lot..

I can understand people doing it as a full time job but for the average body builder that's more in to it for the fun or just to look good.

A lot of effort..

yeah for sure looks like a pain. seen some 'day in the life of' series from Kai Greene and Ronnie Coleman and boy does it look tedious (though Ronnies wife makes his for him and just does a bunch at once & refrigerates in tin foil where as Kai makes fresh everyday)... he was just frying up chicken for ages then he keeps it all in this bag and lugs it around with him all day everywhere he goes.

[alex-art]

Ok let's say 120-130kg dude eats 5000 to 6000 kcals a day. If it's 6 meals a day then it's 1000kcal per meal. And if it's clean (so let's say 50g of protein, 150g of carbs and 25g of fats) it's around 500g per meal. Try to stuff it in first before thinking of doing 4 meals a day

[Gain results]

Myself and I'm sure there's many more on this board that eat a minimum of 6 meals per day.....its about routine and getting organised by thinking and planing your workout for the day,and ensuring you have pre prepared enough meals to feed your body and mind.Personally I cook 2-3 chickens at one time ,fill the slow cooker to the top with meat n veg kumara etc....tins fish blah! Blah! And store them in meal sizes (Tupperware) ,grab them as required out of the fridge or freezer.....bloody easy actually.At present I'm eatn every 2/3hrs round the clock,some meals with c/carbs some not depending on what I'm doing between meals..

[train hard]

why do the main stream body builders still follow this diet pattern?

because it works

[mrgeeky]

why do the main stream body builders still follow this diet pattern?

because it works

sure for some.. Doesn't mean to say it works for all. Plenty like myself find it way to hard, especially more so when its totally unnecessary.

[mrgeeky]

some good reading for you guys..

"We all know it. You can't out-train a bad diet. A great body is built from the consistent application of the principles most important to the goal, and a proper diet is a huge factor for losing fat and building muscle. Your training is also at the mercy of what you eat to gain muscle or lose fat.

But dieting kind of sucks.

Dieting leaves many of us frustrated and stumped about what's actually going to work once and for all. We slave away at sticking to the "rules" of a particular diet method, waiting for the promised results.

While some of us can conjure up the strict discipline to adhere to what we've been told is the only way to a ripped body, we often find that we keep failing at it despite our good intentions and repeated fresh starts. Life just gets in the way and our willpower never seems as strong from day to day as we thought it would be.

For the average trainee with a family, full schedule, and social obligations, getting lean and ripped starts to feel like a pipe dream. Everything concerning our diet becomes about sacrifice and denial. Everything starts revolving around this small percentage of our life that we can't quite get under control.

Consider an alternate strategy and by thinking about this: As long as you know the principles of what makes a diet successful, the way you set it up doesn't matter.

Choosing a combination of strategies that suit your schedule and your goals can give you exactly what you want and reduce unnecessary investment in sticking to "rules" that are giving you minimal profit and driving you crazy.

Changing your diet doesn't have to be an overwhelming overhaul of your entire life, as long as you know what to focus on. A lot of popular nutrition dogma is either unnecessary or downright wrong.

Dieting is much friendlier if you consider your personal schedule, habits, and individual needs. And that's where everything starts.

The New Rules

First, two diet "ground rules" we already know about:

1. The majority of your diet should be comprised of "whole" foods – lean proteins, grains, dairy, fruits, and vegetables. Those are foods we often call "clean." Though clean is rather subjective, I think you get the idea. Food choices are pretty open to what has the nutrients and makes you happy.

2. The energy equation holds true – to lose fat you must burn more energy than you consume and vice versa for building muscle. When changing your body, you aim to lose fat without losing lean mass, and gain lean mass without gaining too much fat alongside it.

All the strategies below can be used in conjunction with each other or added onto other specific protocols you already use with success. Remember that the best plan in the world is useless unless you can apply it in a way that's going to keep you sane and get you results.

Consider the following:

1. Flexible Meal Timing

Hitting your total caloric needs for the day is more important than when you eat those calories. It doesn't really matter if this is eating 6 meals a day or eating 2 meals a day. It also doesn't matter exactly when, either. The majority of your calories can come later in the day, spread out over the day, or at the same times every day, as long as you're hitting your totals.

The myth of "metabolic stoking" through multiple meals every couple of hours has been firmly debunked by science. The research on the topic has grown over the years.

Bellisle et al. found that when measuring 24-hour energy expenditure, there was no difference between frequent small meals or infrequent large meals.(1)

Similarly, Verboeket-van de Venne and Westerterp compared 2 meals versus 7 meals per day, and found that again, there were no differences in energy expenditure within the 24-hour period.

During the "fasted" period, there was heightened fat oxidation because of the lack of available carbohydrates, and increased carbohydrate oxidation after the first meal. Protein oxidation showed no changes with either protocol.(2)

Your body doesn't really keep a clock on calorie intake, as long as you're meeting your needs within the 24-hour period. Your muscles will not fall off with fewer meals, and neither will your metabolism take a nose-dive. Specific meal timing is a variable you can adjust to meet your goals.

For those trying to lose fat, intermittent fasting protocols where you eat more calories in a shorter timeframe, or alternate high and low calories days, can allow you to stay in a deficit easier.

The potential benefits also include higher satiety and reduced cravings. If you struggle with tiny portions every couple hours and can hold off better if you get to eat big, being flexible with your meal sizes and when you eat them may help you stick to the diet.

Intermittent fasting methods have the distinction of being considered both the newest fad and the oldest dieting strategy known to man. The good news is that it boils down to the evidence-based principle that meal timing is flexible when caloric needs are met

Bottom Line

Eating six meals a day every two to three hours to "stoke the metabolism" and prevent a catabolic "starvation mode" is bullshit. Your metabolism doesn't work that way. Grouping your meals together or getting all your calories in smaller time frames to fit your schedule or make adherence easier won't negatively affect your muscle gains or fat loss.

Explore meal frequency and timing flexibility and add another tool in the box to help you reach your goals. (It can also make your life much damn simpler"

[mrgeeky]

"2. If It Fits Your Macros

Traditional bodybuilding diets pigeonhole you into specific foods you "have" to eat for success – the famous clean foods versus dirty foods debate: chicken, broccoli, and oats; oats, broccoli, and chicken. You might as well just blend them together and drink them. Eating out, socializing, and your daily routine can soon start to centralize around what you can and can't eat.

At a physiological level your body can't really tell the difference between "types" of food. A carb is a carb. Protein is protein. Fat is fat. Your body won't reject a nutrient because it came in a different package on the shelf. This is where "if it fits your macros comes in."

The story is that IIFYM is not a "diet setup" or style – it came from bodybuilding threads where trainees were asking whether "macaroni could be eaten on my prep." The answer? "If it fits your macros bro, go for it."

For overall health considerations, eating whole foods for the majority of your diet is a good idea. But setting up calorie and macro goals means you have the freedom to pick foods you enjoy and gives you room for some of the "dirty" foods you love. This translates into a good balance of what you want with what you need.

Bottom Line

Making room for the foods you like through macro tracking promotes adherence and enjoyability on a diet. It also makes complete sense from a physiological and psychological point of view. Get your calories from the foods you want and still hit your goals. A life that revolves around what you can't do is not sustainable or healthy – it's also fxxxing annoying."

3. Eat Your Carbs at Night

Once upon a time someone told us carbs at night will make us fat. Most likely it was Oprah, but don't quote me on that.

Guess what? You can eat carbs at night and not get fat.

In fact, some will argue that eating carbs later in the day in the post-workout window is superior to eating them at other times of the day. Here are a couple of reasons.

You can avoid night time cravings and promote dietary adherence. No more skimpy dinners while your kids gorge on pasta or your roommate is making love to a bowl of fried rice. Like to sit down to a big meal at the end of the day with your family? Do it. You can shuttle your nutrients around and eat them when it's most convenient and enjoyable to you.

Promote growth and recovery during sleep. While kind of anecdotal in theory (24-hour calorie intake is the most important factor), it can't hurt. Imagine plenty of nutrients available as your Testosterone peaks in the middle of your sleep cycle. Sleep and good nutrition fuel growth.

Eat your meals when you can eat them properly. Total calorie intake is the big denominator at the end of the day. This includes when you eat your carbs. Long work day and access to crappy food during the workday? Eat lighter during the day and bigger at night.

Bottom Line

Eat your carbs whenever you want, and there may be merit in getting them later in the day in your post-workout meal"

[mrgeeky]

4. Forget About Willpower

Research supports the principle of flexible dieting, as mentioned above. Meal timing, frequency, and food selection are all variables you can adjust to fit your lifestyle. Taking an extra half-hour to think about the following questions regarding the other 90% of your life could save you years of frustration and stalled progress.

•What's my work schedule? Is it pretty stable, or all over the place? How can I eat for my goals and not clutter my life with stressful cooking and food concerns?

•What times do I have available to cook my meals? Big, easy meals I pre-prepare on the weekends, or easy foods I can throw together at the end of the day?

•What are my bad habits that have stopped my diet attempts before? No time to cook? Temptation of junk food at work? Lots of lunches with clients? Too much eating out? And how can I adjust to suit my needs? How can I adjust my meal plan to make it easy for me to be good?

•When's my training and when do I get most hungry? Structure your food around your life, not the other way around.

If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. You don't want to be stuck trying to figure out something you can actually stick to forever. Be smarter about it sooner and you can focus your energy where it really feels good, like getting PR's in the gym.

This isn't to say that dieting is not a struggle. It is. Investing in your goals and reaching them requires hard work. Make your investment a smarter, more efficient one.

Bottom Line

Imagining that willpower will spring up over night is dumb. Progress is built with good habits and consistency. Plan for your weaknesses and avoid getting stuck wondering where your "willpower" went.

5. Manipulate Your Protein

Researchers come to plenty of conclusions about certain diet protocols and their efficacy, without thinking about everyone eating the same amounts of protein. This is one lesson we can learn from traditional bodybuilding diet setups.

Get your protein.

The protein amount in the diet is one of the most important variables for fat loss, muscle growth, and diet adherence (a.k.a. keeping your sanity). As the king of macronutrients, upping your protein is as close as you can get to "magic" in a diet setup if you haven't taken it seriously before.

Why? Protein is the most thermogenic nutrient. Basically, it costs the most to process in the body. It also has the highest levels of satiety, so you feel more satisfied with meals high in protein.

It's the most valuable macro for lean mass retention while in a deficit, and can be combined with both fat and carbs successfully. A consistent level of protein in your diet can't be underestimated. Aiming for at least 1 gram per pound of bodyweight per day is the agreed upon basic recommendation.

Cutting or dropping calories? Consider making protein even higher to stack the odds in your favor for retaining lean mass and keep you as satisfied as possible while calories are low.

If you have a lot of fat to lose, setting protein at 1 gram per pound might not be realistic. If so, consider setting protein at 1 gram per pound of your goal weight. So if you are 300 pounds and aim to weigh 225, go off of 225 for protein intake.

Nutritionist Alan Aragon came up with this shortcut when getting an accurate lean mass measurement isn't possible. He calls this a "sneaky way of setting protein based on lean body mass, without having to measure or figure out exactly what your LBM is."

Another great myth that we can conveniently toss is the claim that only 30 grams of protein can be "used" by the body at a time and anything beyond that is being thrown out. Not true. The argument is that protein synthesis will cap out at 30-40 grams, but that has nothing to do with what your body will use and digest as a whole. Your body simply doesn't work that way.

Bottom Line

Protein is a big player in diet considerations. Eat more of it to retain your lean mass while in a deficit."

[mrgeeky]

"Wrap-Up

When it comes to diet, you have a lot of options available if you remember the principles. There are no magic foods and there are no magic methods. The magic is in what works for you, and manipulating the method to suit your needs. Take advantage of the above strategies and solve the diet puzzle with your body. Strip the fat, grow some size, and show it off.

References

1. Bellisle, F, et al, Br J Nutr, 1997, April:77, Suppl 1:S57-70

2. Verboeket-van de Venne, Westerterp, KR, Eur J Clin Nutr, 1991, Mar:45(3):161-9"

[mrgeeky]

"2. If It Fits Your Macros

Traditional bodybuilding diets pigeonhole you into specific foods you "have" to eat for success – the famous clean foods versus dirty foods debate: chicken, broccoli, and oats; oats, broccoli, and chicken. You might as well just blend them together and drink them. Eating out, socializing, and your daily routine can soon start to centralize around what you can and can't eat.

At a physiological level your body can't really tell the difference between "types" of food. A carb is a carb. Protein is protein. Fat is fat. Your body won't reject a nutrient because it came in a different package on the shelf. This is where "if it fits your macros comes in."

The story is that IIFYM is not a "diet setup" or style – it came from bodybuilding threads where trainees were asking whether "macaroni could be eaten on my prep." The answer? "If it fits your macros bro, go for it."

For overall health considerations, eating whole foods for the majority of your diet is a good idea. But setting up calorie and macro goals means you have the freedom to pick foods you enjoy and gives you room for some of the "dirty" foods you love. This translates into a good balance of what you want with what you need.

Bottom Line

Making room for the foods you like through macro tracking promotes adherence and enjoyability on a diet. It also makes complete sense from a physiological and psychological point of view. Get your calories from the foods you want and still hit your goals. A life that revolves around what you can't do is not sustainable or healthy – it's also fxxxing annoying."

3. Eat Your Carbs at Night

Once upon a time someone told us carbs at night will make us fat. Most likely it was Oprah, but don't quote me on that.

Guess what? You can eat carbs at night and not get fat.

In fact, some will argue that eating carbs later in the day in the post-workout window is superior to eating them at other times of the day. Here are a couple of reasons.

You can avoid night time cravings and promote dietary adherence. No more skimpy dinners while your kids gorge on pasta or your roommate is making love to a bowl of fried rice. Like to sit down to a big meal at the end of the day with your family? Do it. You can shuttle your nutrients around and eat them when it's most convenient and enjoyable to you.

Promote growth and recovery during sleep. While kind of anecdotal in theory (24-hour calorie intake is the most important factor), it can't hurt. Imagine plenty of nutrients available as your Testosterone peaks in the middle of your sleep cycle. Sleep and good nutrition fuel growth.

Eat your meals when you can eat them properly. Total calorie intake is the big denominator at the end of the day. This includes when you eat your carbs. Long work day and access to crappy food during the workday? Eat lighter during the day and bigger at night.

Bottom Line

Eat your carbs whenever you want, and there may be merit in getting them later in the day in your post-workout meal"

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

oh so it was just a rhetorical kind of question or something? well played i guess?

[mrgeeky]

oh so it was just a rhetorical kind of question or something? well played i guess?

heh heh heh heh heh :pfft:

[Riccardo]

Two reasons:

1. Try eating 5000+ calories in 3 meals, pretty hard work.

2. Gear, and lots of it, requires constant protein and calorie intake.

[alex-art]

"Wrap-Up

....

References

1. Bellisle, F, et al, Br J Nutr, 1997, April:77, Suppl 1:S57-70

2. Verboeket-van de Venne, Westerterp, KR, Eur J Clin Nutr, 1991, Mar:45(3):161-9"

So who is the author of this bro-article? Another Holland dude on dope cookies? :pfft:

[Scottb]

Always stuck with 6 meals a day, put simply it makes eating a lot more food a lot easier for me..

[Kalidane]

Two reasons:

1. Try eating 5000+ calories in 3 meals, pretty hard work.

2. Gear, and lots of it, requires constant protein and calorie intake.

Ach ya beat me to it with #1

For me hitting 5k requires eating at the following times:

Before work.

On the way to work.

Smoko.

Lunch.

On the way home from work.

After work eat enough to hit macros (can take a while).

It's purely a practical issue.

I'm pretty sure it was on this very forum that there was a good discussion about the thermal effect of food - few vs many meals. My recollection is that there is none. 'Stoking the metabolic fires' is only useful if you're selling a rubbish magazine or book.

[Pseudonym]

2. Gear, and lots of it, requires constant protein and calorie intake.

Ah, now I was discussing this with a mate the other day.

One of the purported benefits of Intermittent Fasting is that fasting increases your levels of Growth Hormone. That's always nice, but when coupled with high doses of testosterone, surely it's even better? Isn't this the ideal environment for muscle growth? Why isn't IF preferable to constant eating while on gear?

[Diab0lic]

Im cutting ATM doing IF (fast til 6pm) and am on gear too. cutting up fast, stronger than ever. 2 meals and a protein shake. Loving it

[mrgeeky]

oh so it was just a rhetorical kind of question or something? well played i guess?

Im cutting ATM doing IF (fast til 6pm) and am on gear too. cutting up fast, stronger than ever. 2 meals and a protein shake. Loving it

If I eat breakfast I get sick. I feel lethargic and tired and cant control my eating through out the day..

So my first meal is midday..

Second meal 6 o clock..

then something small at around 9ish.

When I go to the gym in the morning I have energy to burn and feel like a million dollars.. And that's with I.F. from around 9ish the night before.

If I eat breaky I struggle to even make it to the gym because I feel like total shit.

Eating breakfast causing people to have a big appetite and to pig out during the day is now a common and recognized phenomenon..

I have spent most my life trying to follow what for me was an absolute bullshit concept of breaky is the most important meal of the day.

I have struggled for years with the 6 small (or more) meals a day.

To read the article I posted in here was a huge breath of fresh air for me and a big wake up.. Its changed my life.

That's the reason for starting this thread. For those that are sucked in to believing they must eat 6 small meals a day when they find it so difficult I think that article is a very good read.

For those that want to eat their small meals every 2-3 hours, sweet, keep it up! But for those that have been hating it, and only been doing it because of the brainwashing, I sincerely hope you'll find that article a huge relief, just like I did..

[mrgeeky]

and this one is for those that feel sick or tired or set them selves up to feel hungry all day after eating breakfast.

And a quick google of - why does eating breakfast make me hungry or why does eating breakfast make me lethargic, proves its a common phenomenon.

It's an issue I suffered with for years but was to brainwashed to believe that I shouldn't be eating breakfast or shouldn't be worrying about getting my morning protein fix!

http://www.theiflife.com/why-you-should ... fastagain/

[Kalidane]

...

That's the reason for starting this thread. For those that are sucked in to believing they must eat 6 small meals a day when they find it so difficult I think that article is a very good read.

For those that want to eat their small meals every 2-3 hours, sweet, keep it up! But for those that have been hating it, and only been doing it because of the brainwashing, I sincerely hope you'll find that article a huge relief, just like I did..

If that works for you then that's cool.

The solution to your problem may not be beneficial to all others however. People on this forum generally settle in to a diet that suits their lifestyle and goals. If a person has a job and is bulking on 5k+ calories then that usually means many meals/snacks. It's a practical solution. It is not brain washing.

Sooo how many calories a day are you eating anyway??

Have you looked into causes of satiety at all? I suspect there is a lot for you in that area.