How can you spot a juicer?

[train hard]

OP any guy in the gym that is bigger and stronger then you must be on steroids.

[Pseudonym]

Hey mate, I've split this into a new topic so that it doesn't derail the other one.

I mean in terms of role modeling it contributes to unreasonable expectations on individuals who aren't enhanced.... That is all i am implying. No one really cares if you use drugs, just make it clear that you did...

I think it's fine to take a successful athlete and use them as your goal, but you can't expect that it will be a perfectly fair and balanced competition, regardless of steroids. Even if you both have the same training, diet and equipment, they may still have the better genetics - in which case your expectations of achieving the results will also be unreasonable!

[pyro]

not that i care in terms of comparison.... I mean they are professional athletes.....

I mean in terms of role modeling it contributes to unreasonable expectations on individuals who aren't enhanced.... That is all i am implying. No one really cares if you use drugs, just make it clear that you did...

EG Arnold was obviously juicing. To many BBers, Athletes, Fitness models out there who are setting the bar far to high because it was un-even to begin with.

I never once compared myself to them and i'm not implying that they wouldn't be good without enhancement, however what about naturals who put 100% into everything they do yet will never reach that level as it was unfair to begin with... see what i'm saying?

Your original point seemed to be about a guy in your gym that looked like he was using, but now when I asked why it matters, you have turned it around saying that athletes should be coming out and admitting to it.

Do you really believe pro bodybuilders/power lifters and others in untested sports are going to come out and admit to using. Its obvious and the majority of the population know this, but what company would want to sponsor someone who is directly and openly admitting to using illegal substances. Each user would lose their sponsors, respect, a shit load of money, and would most likely be struggling to compete in the sport they love.

If you want to compare yourself on a natty level to whats achievable natty. Look at the majority of pro athletes in tested sports, and use that as your goal, instead of looking at a guy in the gym and getting upset wondering if hes using and setting an "unrealistic" goal for you.

I assume with some of your comments on here you frequently visit the misc?

*edit*

If you or anyone else with the slightest clue about training and the human body ever used any pro bodybuilder(as you said above) as a realistic goal, you should just stop now.

[Leeroid]

Well I actually thought that not all bodybuilders used steroids, only the ones that appear in tse photoshopped pictures lol. Dat celltech brah.

I even PMed SG 2 years ago asking him whether he was natural and whether it was possible to get to his level natural lol. Then over a period of time, I did my research and found that your natural limit is actually a lot lower than I thought. I wasnt butthurt over this, it was just a fact and I didnt expect anyone to jeopardise their career simply for the sake of some noob.

Muscletech for the win

[pyro]

Well I actually thought that not all bodybuilders used steroids, only the ones that appear in tse photoshopped pictures lol. Dat celltech brah.

I even PMed SG 2 years ago asking him whether he was natural and whether it was possible to get to his level natural lol. Then over a period of time, I did my research and found that your natural limit is actually a lot lower than I thought. I wasnt butthurt over this, it was just a fact and I didnt expect anyone to jeopardise their career simply for the sake of some noob.

Muscletech for the win

So 2 years ago when you had just started lifting and didn't know much Proved my point didnt you lol.

I also meant looking towards guys like Cutler, Ronnie etc

[Leeroid]

Yeah I thought those guys were natty srs

[Pseudonym]

I think Lee makes a good point. If you don't know, it's easy to assume that only pro bodybuilders take steroids. Equally, once you start training it's easy to look every bigger than you, and assume they must be on something. Eventually you learn the truth is somewhere in between. (Although I still wonder about guys bigger than me... )

[Specter]

Here's one off topic: Few months back a Courier delivers a package to the wrong gym and the on duty manager mistakenly opens it up to find needles/barrels etc...

How can you spot a juicer? Look for the hardcore quiet ones that look at you like you dont exsist unless they know you. 8)

[Cameron_R]

So back to the original question ... can you tell? and how?

I'm curious, and why the hell not. I'm in Mexico for a while for work, and juice is legal here, so I find myself thinking that EVERY guy in the gym us using just because they can!

How can I tell?

[Cam0505]

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[jimmybro1]

[MOD EDIT: Topic split from here]

Can one of you experienced guys make a thread about how to spot a fake natural? I know you guys hate those claiming to be natural when their not.

Would be curious to know what to look for, good idea with the thread btw education should be the first step in any life changing decision.

Jumping on the YouTube band wagon...

Usually shoulders and traps are a give away, but its not the case for everyone.

Enhanced bodybuilders typically have much more developed shoulders and traps than chest etc.

Other side could be if the guy is sweating all the time (out of the gym).

[Cam0505]

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[Rxx]

I also don't compare myself to steroid sport, however whether a sport is tested or not is a piss poor indication of steroid use! look at the Olympics... you can't tell me that those sprinters aren't juicing, which is fine for sport but what about young aspiring runners?

They will see the light and juice up! :nod:

I honestly don't see why your loosing sleep over this, tested sports are exactly that.. TESTED. So if athletes slip through the cracks then that's their good luck, nothing you can do about that.

Jumping on the YouTube band wagon...

Usually shoulders and traps are a give away, but its not the case for everyone.

Enhanced bodybuilders typically have much more developed shoulders and traps than chest etc.

Other side could be if the guy is sweating all the time (out of the gym).

These are the types of things i was referring to as he had over developed shoulders, traps etc which made me think he could be on juice.

Could very well be difference in genetics/training/ eating as I declare War said, as physical signs seem to be a very poor indication (just look at lance armstrong who is an example of unnoticeable steroid use).

Lance Armstrong wasn't a bodybuilder though, and he wasn't trying to get big..... So that comparison is invalid.

[vracula]

Jumping on the YouTube band wagon...

Usually shoulders and traps are a give away, but its not the case for everyone.

Enhanced bodybuilders typically have much more developed shoulders and traps than chest etc.

Other side could be if the guy is sweating all the time (out of the gym).

These are the types of things i was referring to as he had over developed shoulders, traps etc which made me think he could be on juice.

Could very well be difference in genetics/training/ eating as I declare War said, as physical signs seem to be a very poor indication (just look at lance armstrong who is an example of unnoticeable steroid use).

Cam buddy I understand where your coming from,My view of what is achievable is so skewed it's not funny,I also believe people understate what is possible when you are on steroids purely from a visual perspective ,That is until you speak to them and get the whole gist of how thing's work.I have nothing against people juicing and I probably will get on the bandwagon when I am convinced I am giving 100% at the gym and in the kitchen and achieving very little.

Make no mistake there are no shortcuts,the hard work is the same ,the recovery time and results are just better.

[DIANABOL]

No one at my work asks if Im on steroids, am I doing something wrong? :shock:

[vracula]

No one at my work asks if Im on steroids, am I doing something wrong? :shock:

did U wear a nz aesthetics tank top to work by any chance? U should ,The questions will come flying at you ,more to do with your sexuality though.

[DIANABOL]

No one at my work asks if Im on steroids, am I doing something wrong? :shock:

did U wear a nz aesthetics tank top to work by any chance? U should ,The questions will come flying at you ,more to do with your sexuality though.

Unfortunately I've never had the honour of donning a NZA Tank Top...

[Seeking]

who cares if you can spot a juicer or not...

OP when your talking about the normal gym rat who or even a BBer where testing isnt prevalant, no one gives a shit. you and I both know it dont equate to diddly squat unless all aspects or their training are on par. using in tested sports is a whole other topic.

after reading a few of your posts OP, from the time you started posting on this board you seemed to have questioned people who use. its like you have something stuck up your arse, or you want to be able to spot a gear head and scream out "hey everybody, this guy is on steroids" :cry:

you cant always spot a gearhead based on physical attributes, you answered your own question in regards to this with Lance Armstrong...

nor can you determine a user based on his strength, you have determined this by telling us all how strong your deads are... :roll:

my traps are average and im a user so dont always believe the hype.

what else you wanna know mate??? why u be hating?? :grin:

[I Declare War]

No one at my work asks if Im on steroids, am I doing something wrong? :shock:

You must be.

[Leeroid]

No one at my work asks if Im on steroids, am I doing something wrong? :shock:

You must be.

They're probably just too scared to ask lol

[jimmybro1]

No one at my work asks if Im on steroids, am I doing something wrong? :shock:

did U wear a nz aesthetics tank top to work by any chance? U should ,The questions will come flying at you ,more to do with your sexuality though.

[Cam0505]

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[Cam0505]

I don't hate athletes haha! just seems odd that if everyone knows (by everyone i mean educated/aware people, not the general public) then why is it hidden under the rug?

Government influence?

Also i got no problem with juicers.. if they want to spend their money go ahead, just don't blame to be natural as it makes it very difficult to determine what is or isn't possible from natural training..

For example i i get into swimming who is or isn't on drugs? who do i look up to? (not copy as everyone is different)

Wheres the line drawn? see what i mean? how fast would Usain be without drugs? (something i'd be asking if i was a natural sprinter)

[DIANABOL]

I don't hate athletes haha! just seems odd that if everyone knows (by everyone i mean educated/aware people, not the general public) then why is it hidden under the rug?

Government influence?

Also i got no problem with juicers.. if they want to spend their money go ahead, just don't claim to be natural as it makes it very difficult to determine what is or isn't possible from natural training..

For example if i get into swimming who is or isn't on drugs? who do i look up to? (not copy as everyone is different)

Wheres the line drawn? see what i mean? how fast would Usain be without drugs? (something i'd be asking if i was a natural sprinter)

You are a very strange man Cam0505

[jimmybro1]

You should set your own goals and aspirations rather than wanting to be like a particular individual.

What someone can achieve naturally or not you might not be able too. Too much finger pointing going on and singling out when in fact IMO a significant faction of high level sporting people are using some form of PED.

The sporting federations will use a escape goat which the media and public will demonize.

Set your own goals to strive towards.