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yeelang Member

yeelang

Posted
Posted

Dont agree with a lot of the information in post. Didn't go through it intensely but things I noticed:

Non-all oral steriods are c17-Alpha-Alkylated.

Common cycle 1: I Don't like one injection per week of Test E, PCT should be started earlier than 2 weeks if you are only taking 250mg. Not sure why the upper duration of a cycle is 20weeks for a beginner cycle

Don't agree with Nolva for 250mg test, 20mg from day one.

Common cycle 3: I generally don't agree with prop for a first time cycle, if it's made from just BA/BB the pain will not be enjoyable for those allergic to the ester. At minimum point out the PIP pain associated with prop.

Don't agree with running Arimidex and Nolva for 350mg of test, or why you suggesting more Nolva at the start of a cycle.

Oral Cycles: I'm not sure why you are suggesting these. Winstrol is mg for mg one of the most toxic orals and suggesting 6 weeks of it stand alone is a poor option. If you're going to include it, make a statement on its liver toxicity.

Don't understand the Nolvadex dosing for Anavar @ 60mg.

I don't think a common dose for diannabol or Winstrol is 100mg/day and I won't be advocating it in a first timers thread.

Likewise why Anadrol in a beginner thread

content on liver protection such as Tudac under oral steriods would be good. A small blurb on infections/abscesses would also be good, nothing like a staph infection that a novice thinks is PIP.

just my 2c

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

Posted
Posted

Agree with most of what you've said except for the stuff in red.

Dont agree with a lot of the information in post. Didn't go through it intensely but things I noticed:

Non-all oral steriods are c17-Alpha-Alkylated.

Common cycle 1: I Don't like one injection per week of Test E, PCT should be started earlier than 2 weeks if you are only taking 250mg. Not sure why the upper duration of a cycle is 20weeks for a beginner cycle

1/week is fine with Test E. Peak and trough fluctuations will be slightly bigger but not out of therapeutic range/It isn't going to make much difference from pinning twice a week. Agree re 20 weeks but not on when PCT should be started, The half life of a drug is the half life regardless of the dose If you're basing your PCT on when the test will clear your system then 4x the half life is still the same amount of time regardless of the dose. personally I don't agree with a conventional PCT but some people are adamant about it so for the sake of continuity, thought I should clear it up.

Don't agree with Nolva for 250mg test, 20mg from day one.

Neither, but I'm assuming for different reasons. Also dunno if you're saying 20mg is insufficient or what? but it is. Please clarify..

Common cycle 3: I generally don't agree with prop for a first time cycle, if it's made from just BA/BB the pain will not be enjoyable for those allergic to the ester. At minimum point out the PIP pain associated with prop.

Also agree

Don't agree with running Arimidex and Nolva for 350mg of test, or why you suggesting more Nolva at the start of a cycle.

Oral Cycles: I'm not sure why you are suggesting these. Winstrol is mg for mg one of the most toxic orals and suggesting 6 weeks of it stand alone is a poor option. If you're going to include it, make a statement on its liver toxicity.

Agree but reality is most newbies will dabble in orals first, agree there should be mention of its toxicity.

Don't understand the Nolvadex dosing for Anavar @ 60mg.

I don't think a common dose for diannabol or Winstrol is 100mg/day and I won't be advocating it in a first timers thread.

Likewise why Anadrol in a beginner thread

content on liver protection such as Tudac under oral steriods would be good. A small blurb on infections/abscesses would also be good, nothing like a staph infection that a novice thinks is PIP.

Agree

just my 2c

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Leeroid Veteran member

Leeroid

Posted
Posted

Sweet, so I'll edit the parts you guys have mentioned:

*AI is not a must on cycle, just explain why it's run by some people and typical dosages

*Shorten the length of cycle duration

*List a few different PCT options

Do you guys think the oral only part of the post should be deleted entirely? Or leave it in there but emphasise that it is not a good idea and you should always have a test base?

I know prop is not ideal for a first cycle due to it's PIP factor and frequent injection requirements but some people can only access prop or have other reasons to use the ester. So I think I'll leave it in but explain the downsides of prop?

Yeelang and Riccardo, if you guys could write a little piece on your opinion of basic PCTs for different cycles, that would be great.

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Leeroid Veteran member

Leeroid

Posted
Posted
Dont agree with a lot of the information in post. Didn't go through it intensely but things I noticed:

Non-all oral steriods are c17-Alpha-Alkylated.

Common cycle 1: I Don't like one injection per week of Test E, PCT should be started earlier than 2 weeks if you are only taking 250mg. Not sure why the upper duration of a cycle is 20weeks for a beginner cycle

Don't agree with Nolva for 250mg test, 20mg from day one.

Common cycle 3: I generally don't agree with prop for a first time cycle, if it's made from just BA/BB the pain will not be enjoyable for those allergic to the ester. At minimum point out the PIP pain associated with prop.

Don't agree with running Arimidex and Nolva for 350mg of test, or why you suggesting more Nolva at the start of a cycle.

Oral Cycles: I'm not sure why you are suggesting these. Winstrol is mg for mg one of the most toxic orals and suggesting 6 weeks of it stand alone is a poor option. If you're going to include it, make a statement on its liver toxicity.

Don't understand the Nolvadex dosing for Anavar @ 60mg.

I don't think a common dose for diannabol or Winstrol is 100mg/day and I won't be advocating it in a first timers thread.

Likewise why Anadrol in a beginner thread

content on liver protection such as Tudac under oral steriods would be good. A small blurb on infections/abscesses would also be good, nothing like a staph infection that a novice thinks is PIP.

just my 2c

Referring to part in bold, I don't know anything about this matter so someone else can write about it.

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Taekwando Junior member

Taekwando

Posted
Posted

Swt thread i got some noob questions you guys could help me out with

1: is it best to be at a low bf for a cycle say 10%?

2: how long can an unopened vial of test last for? 1-2 years? Must it be refrigerated?

3: what age is to young for a 10wk test cycle with proper pct and cycle knowledge?

4: how can I check the gear I'm using is legit? The way it looks ie if its a dark yellow or light yellowish colour u kno what i mean, Brand rep? Get a blood test on cycle and review test levels?

5: on a 500mg wk test cycle what would the average joes test levels be at??

Cheers guys

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Leeroid Veteran member

Leeroid

Posted
Posted

Blood tests

Blood tests are highly recommended. It is very simple to get a blood test done, there are two ways to go about it.

One is to go to your GP and convince him to refer you for blood tests (whether you state your underlying intention is your choice). Usually they will comply if you state concerns about your health and testosterone levels. This way, all you have to pay for is the fee to meet your GP. One thing to consider though is that there may be problems when you apply for health or life insurance later on. The obviously abnormal blood results will raise alarm bells and could cause complications.

The second way is to get a self-referred test. Just walk into a medlab, or a building offering laboratory services (most cities should have one). Ask for a blood test and you will have to pay for the test. They should not ask any questions apart from what you want to test for. They will draw your blood and you will get your results either sent to you in the mail, or you can pick it up in a few days. Fees may differ but here's a couple of charts: http://www.pathlab.co.nz/Pathology-Asso ... 7509_.html

http://www.dml.co.nz/media/104524/short ... feb.13.pdf

You will want to get a blood test before you start your cycle to determine your natural baseline levels and have a reference range. Then if you think it's necessary, you should get one about 6 weeks in to confirm gear. You can also use this to see whether your health is being negatively affected or not. And another blood test 6 weeks after completing your cycle to see whether your PCT was successful and if your natural test production has recovered.

Here are the basic things you should get done:

Total testosterone

Estradiol aka E2, oestradiol

LH, FSH

CBC or FBC (complete or full blood count)

Lipids (Cholesterol, Triglycerides, LDL, HDL)

LFT (Liver function test) Important if you are running orals

Optional tests:

Prolactin

Free testosterone

Bio-available testosterone

SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin)

T3, T4 (thyroid hormones)

TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone)\

Cortisol

IGF-1

Interpreting blood test results

The results will come with a copy of reference ranges, which mean the normal range of levels for 95% of the population. Ideally, you want all your levels to be within these reference ranges or if you got baseline tests done, as close to these as possible except for the testosterone.

On cycle, your testosterone levels should come out waaay above the reference range. In NZ, I think most places use nmol/l whereas Americans seem to use dg/nl. Anyway, we'll work with nmol/l but here's a converter if you need it: http://www.endmemo.com/medical/unitconv ... terone.php

Normal range for total tesosterone is 9-30nmol/l. On a cycle of 250mgs a week, by week 6 it should be at least 60 or over. With 500mgs a week, it should be about 120 at the very least. Some people will come back at 170 or above. If you are below these minimum levels, your gear is most likely underdosed.

Threads I got this info from:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabo ... 84297.html

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabo ... cycle.html

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabo ... think.html

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Leeroid Veteran member

Leeroid

Posted
Posted
Swt thread i got some noob questions you guys could help me out with

1: is it best to be at a low bf for a cycle say 10%?

2: how long can an unopened vial of test last for? 1-2 years? Must it be refrigerated?

3: what age is to young for a 10wk test cycle with proper pct and cycle knowledge?

4: how can I check the gear I'm using is legit? The way it looks ie if its a dark yellow or light yellowish colour u kno what i mean, Brand rep? Get a blood test on cycle and review test levels?

5: on a 500mg wk test cycle what would the average joes test levels be at??

Cheers guys

Answered questions 4 and 5 in previous post about blood tests.

1. Yes, the lower the bf % the better as estrogen receptors are abundant in fat deposits making you more susceptible to side effects as well as the fact that you will be able to see how much you gain more easily if you are lean to start with.

2. Don't refrigerate test, it's not necessary. It may crystallise and may not dissolve again lol. Usually about 2 years although it should be good for more than that. Just store in a cool dry place away from light at room temp.

3. I wouldn't really say biological age is an important factor, although a lot of people are against anyone under 21 or 25 using AAS. Other factors such as training experience, level of muscular development, dedication and maturity are more important I'd say. IMO 2 years of training seriously, and your weight should be at least your height in cms minus 100 at a bodyfat below 10%. So for a 180cm guy, he should be at least 80kgs at 10% bf. Just my opinion, others may differ considerably.

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knock knock Member

knock knock

Posted
Posted
Blood tests

Blood tests are highly recommended. It is very simple to get a blood test done, there are two ways to go about it.

One is to go to your GP and convince him to refer you for blood tests (whether you state your underlying intention is your choice). Usually they will comply if you state concerns about your health and testosterone levels. This way, all you have to pay for is the fee to meet your GP.

You might want to make note of the potential problems with future health or life insurance etc when your doctors records show the obviously abnormal blood results.

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Leeroid Veteran member

Leeroid

Posted
Posted
Blood tests

Blood tests are highly recommended. It is very simple to get a blood test done, there are two ways to go about it.

One is to go to your GP and convince him to refer you for blood tests (whether you state your underlying intention is your choice). Usually they will comply if you state concerns about your health and testosterone levels. This way, all you have to pay for is the fee to meet your GP.

You might want to make note of the potential problems with future health or life insurance etc when your doctors records show the obviously abnormal blood results.

Done

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pyro Senior member

pyro

Posted
Posted
Blood tests

Blood tests are highly recommended. It is very simple to get a blood test done, there are two ways to go about it.

One is to go to your GP and convince him to refer you for blood tests (whether you state your underlying intention is your choice). Usually they will comply if you state concerns about your health and testosterone levels. This way, all you have to pay for is the fee to meet your GP.

You might want to make note of the potential problems with future health or life insurance etc when your doctors records show the obviously abnormal blood results.

Or just get them done privately so your doc doesnt have records.

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yeelang Member

yeelang

Posted
Posted

1/week is fine with Test E. Peak and trough fluctuations will be slightly bigger but not out of therapeutic range/It isn't going to make much difference from pinning twice a week. Agree re 20 weeks but not on when PCT should be started, The half life of a drug is the half life regardless of the dose If you're basing your PCT on when the test will clear your system then 4x the half life is still the same amount of time regardless of the dose. personally I don't agree with a conventional PCT but some people are adamant about it so for the sake of continuity, thought I should clear it up.

250mg/500mg Test E same half-life, but 250mg will drop you below natural levels one half life earlier than 500mg (all things equal).

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Riccardo Senior member

Riccardo

Posted
Posted

1/week is fine with Test E. Peak and trough fluctuations will be slightly bigger but not out of therapeutic range/It isn't going to make much difference from pinning twice a week. Agree re 20 weeks but not on when PCT should be started, The half life of a drug is the half life regardless of the dose If you're basing your PCT on when the test will clear your system then 4x the half life is still the same amount of time regardless of the dose. personally I don't agree with a conventional PCT but some people are adamant about it so for the sake of continuity, thought I should clear it up.

250mg/500mg Test E same half-life, but 250mg will drop you below natural levels one half life earlier than 500mg (all things equal).

Oh I see what you're saying. The original theory behind waiting four weeks is that you want ALL test to have cleared your system as any exogenous testosterone will shut you down. This is of course false, as you've pointed out. I will post up something on tapering as I feel it's the best Post cycle therapy.

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yeelang Member

yeelang

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Posted
:nod:

true that was all up cost first time with bloods, consultation etc

UG is cheaper, now toying with home brew :lol:

Can get 1kg Test E powder for $900USD yet to work out how much that would make!

If you can't workout how much 1kg of Test-E makes off the top of your head, you probably shouldn't be toying with homebrew.

And I think price discussion is banned, but you're paying too much (assuming you're dealing with the producer directly)

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Scottb New member

Scottb

Posted
Posted
depends on dosage

250 Test E at once a week = 10mls , 10ml vial approx 160 to 170

dependant on supplier

Pharma product thru Doc approx $800

So you inject 10mls of oil a week in one injection? What does the 250 stand for?

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Grover Senior member

Grover

Posted
Posted
:nod:

true that was all up cost first time with bloods, consultation etc

UG is cheaper, now toying with home brew :lol:

Can get 1kg Test E powder for $900USD yet to work out how much that would make!

If you can't workout how much 1kg of Test-E makes off the top of your head, you probably shouldn't be toying with homebrew.

And I think price discussion is banned, but you're paying too much (assuming you're dealing with the producer directly)

:lol:

Chill dude, its only a discussion didn't say I was doing it.

Was only mentioning that had been offered it and was a thought alabeit not serious as i don't use that much and have no intentions of getting into the supply business.

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