Diet on cycle?

[Cam0505]

If you don't mind me asking, how does being an enhanced bodybuilder change your diet? In relation to total energy consumed, required amounts of different macronutrients? From what i understand some of them help your body with nitrogen excesses from protein, so rapidly increase utilization? Also do you keep your dietary fats lower than that of a natural? who has to put more into maintaining thyroid function during comp prep?

Love this stuff, as i'm sure you can tell.

[Pseudonym]

It's a good question, Cam0505. So I've split it into it's own topic here.

[Pseudonym]

I'm surprised no-one else has said anything here yet, so here's my two cents - perhaps it will spur a few others to chime in. :wink:

When on AAS...

- Your metabolism will be raised, so you can eat more total calories while maintaining the same BF%.

- Protein synthesis is increased, so your protein intake is used more efficiently for muscle building (so it's a good idea to increase protein further to take advantage of this)

- Carbs... I'm not sure, tbh.

- Fats... Again, not 100% certain, but your "needs less fats than a natural trainer" hypothesis seems like a reasonable one. Also AAS can raise cholesterol levels, so it pays to be sensible about the types of fats you eat.

I'm far from an expert here though, so hopefully others can add a bit more.

[mr-universe]

basically.... you can have a diet of cheeseburgers and protein drinks everyday and gain muscle and stay lean.

[Leeroid]

basically.... you can have a diet of cheeseburgers and protein drinks everyday and gain muscle and stay lean.

This

[tomsammce]

basically.... you can have a diet of cheeseburgers and protein drinks everyday and gain muscle and stay lean.

This

That's not sustainable though. And you'll soon get fat and stop gaining muscle eventually.

For a first cycle yeah sure. Like anything you do though, you should aim to be as productive as you can.

I see more ppl on steroids who look like slobs and look shit than ppl I do who look good.

So says to be the only differing factor is their diet.

So it's very important.

First cycle is a first cycle... It's 8-15 weeks of your life, everyone gains from this. As you get down the track it becomes more important so if you apply those important principles of nutrition to your early cycles you will get lots more gains.

Food influences side effects too.. Depending what u eat can aid in preventing backne or gyno or bring it on badly and stuff like that. I dnt have alot if time atm to do a big post but get a grip protein drinks and cheeseburgers.

[mr-universe]

lol just joking bro

yea, long term the food needs to be balanced

but I'll prob go eat cheeseburgers twice a week

[Cam0505]

sounds very interesting in relation to how it changes your diet/ how your body responses to it. I like the idea of eating more and staying lean while building muscle.

i'd like to learn about the overall impact. So that being said, What negatives have you guys experienced? in relation to diet and general health

[Leeroid]

i'd like to learn about the overall impact. So that being said, What negatives have you guys experienced? in relation to diet and general health etc other then the increased cholesterol as mentioned above (not surprising given its a pre cursor to testosterone).

Well, I haven't gotten any bloods done yet but can't say I noticed anything different in terms of appetite or general health. Some people say they get an increase in appetite when they're on test or decrease when running dbol but for me, I didn't have any of the psychological symptoms of being on steroids.

I don't really see what you're trying to ask here. If you're trying to find out how we alter our diet when "on", I think most of us would simply eat more. And a lot of protein, although being bodybuilders, we'd normally have a high intake of protein anyway.

I've never heard of diets being influenced by whether you're on juice or not, although like said earlier you can be a bit more relaxed on eating clean while bulking as you can be sure you're gonna gain mostly muscle.

[Rxx]

Like Leeroid said, eat more (250-500cal above maintenance if you want to limit fat gain) and high protein intake.... Same philosophy as a regular bulk. Some will opt for a clean bulk, others dirty or somewhere inbetween.... Comes down to the induvidual and their goals I guess.

[Cam0505]

So very little in the way of diet change, just means you better utilize the protein and overall calories you eat?

4x the natural testosterone per week (500milli grams per week) will equal on average double the protein/muscle synthesis.. this sound about right?

Quite interesting that all that added protein synthesis doesn't increase your energy expenditure more.

[Leeroid]

So very little in the way of diet change, just means you better utilize the protein and overall calories you eat?

4x the natural testosterone per week (500milli grams per week) will equal on average double the protein/muscle synthesis.. this sound about right?

Quite interesting that all that added protein synthesis doesn't increase your energy expenditure more.

500mgs a week is closer to 6 times the natural testosterone production of a healthy young male. Could be up to 20 times that of an older man.

As to whether that equates to double the protein/muscle synthesis, I have no idea what you're referring to. I don't think there's any set formula where the dosage influences the rate of anabolic activity. There are too many variables involved to try and set a consistent ratio.

Steroids do increase your metabolism, although again there are too many variables to predict how much it will speed up by.

I'm only answering because nobody else is and you may as well get an answer from someone that's inexperienced (second cycle) rather than no answer at all.

[Cam0505]

Well thanks

Guess you guys can use this thread to talk about your actual diets while enhanced, although seems like diet is much less of a concern for those who are enhanced.

I'm sure you guys have done your research on the benefits and side-effects of enhancement before taking anything.

[Rxx]

Well thanks

Guess you guys can use this thread to talk about your actual diets while enhanced, although seems like diet is much less of a concern for those who are enhanced.

I'm sure you guys have done your research on the benefits and side-effects of enhancement before taking anything.

That statement is totally incorrect, anyone considering Steroids should have their diet on point to maximize gains (and hang onto those gains through pct and after). If diet is shit, then your loosing potential lean gains!

[train hard]

Well thanks

Guess you guys can use this thread to talk about your actual diets while enhanced, although seems like diet is much less of a concern for those who are enhanced.

I'm sure you guys have done your research on the benefits and side-effects of enhancement before taking anything.

you need lots of protein and lots of carbs you can utilize more calories when on gear therefore build muscle faster and larger then if you are natural.

So diet is the number 1 factor when it comes to making good gains on cycle when im going hard on the juice i try and have about 300 grams of good quallity protein a day and about 500 grams of carbs a day and whatever fat is in my chicken and steak and you have to be consistant not be good for 4 days then slack of for 3 days and so on.

[Cam0505]

My bad.. didn't mean that it was unimportant just not a huge concern in relation to maintaining hormones etc etc.. Didn't mean to discount any time and hard-work you guys spend on keeping your diet in check.

Interested to know: What age did you guys start using and what made you want to start? Eg sport, reached your potential, wanted to maximize the time you were on gear, etc. (No judgement what so ever, just curious)

[I Declare War]

My bad.. didn't mean that it was unimportant just not a huge concern in relation to maintaining hormones etc etc.. Didn't mean to discount any time and hard-work you guys spend on keeping your diet in check.

Interested to know: What age did you guys start using and what made you want to start? Eg sport, reached your potential, wanted to maximize the time you were on gear, etc. (No judgement what so ever, just curious)

I was studying Chemistry at University, and getting in to Bodybuilding. So, I just put two and two together. :grin:

[yeelang]

The key foundation of building muscle is

protein synthesis - Protein degradation = total muscle gained.

Hormones are a contributing factor to your bodies homeostasis of protein turnover and generally any use of AAS will lead to some increase of muscle mass, because AAS increase protein synthesis positively and decrease degradation, until your body re-establishes homeostasis.

In terms of bodybuilding. It does make it much easier to gain muscle, and you can be nonchalant with your diet if you're that kind of person. For the serious bodybuilder the ability to increase protein synthesis causes a much higher protein requirement for maximal growth. You're essentially increasing the amount of muscle that can be repaired per day and obviously this increased ability to repair requires an increase in resources required to be used for repairing (think building houses with 10 workers or 30)

How much does it increase? It depends on what is being taken but generally 2-3g/lb protein will saturate an individual on under 1500mg of AAS/week. This number might seem rather high but we are talking about optimal intake (pure growth) as opposed to intake required for growth. It's not difficult for an individual who is new to AAS to net gain 8-10kg over 10 weeks and many would be happy with that. But the truth is for many individuals 15-20kg+ is obtainable by pushing the limits on dietary intake. Obviously an overall optimal calorie intake must be maintained for protein to be utilized correctly.

Higher protein ratios are generally considered more favorable for the AAS user because of Protein turn over rates.

[Pseudonym]

How much does it increase? It depends on what is being taken but generally 2-3g/lb protein will saturate an individual on under 1500mg of AAS/week.

So a 200lb person should be taking 600g of protein? Jeez, that does seem like a lot!

But if the aim is clean bulking with minimal fat gain, would you then need to drop the carbs/fats so that your caloric intake is still only 250-500cal above maintenance?

[Cam0505]

Wait what? how did you get 600g? Is it possible to determine the percentage of dietary protein used for muscle synthesis?

[yeelang]

So a 200lb person should be taking 600g of protein? Jeez, that does seem like a lot!

But if the aim is clean bulking with minimal fat gain, would you then need to drop the carbs/fats so that your caloric intake is still only 250-500cal above maintenance?

There's two approaches you can either minimize fat gain but jeopardize optimal muscle gain, or you can maximize muscle gain (4 weeks for example) and then maximize fat loss. Both have their merits, if you are a seasoned AAS user trying to lean gain doesn't always send a strong enough signal to promote growth, likewise heavy bulking with androgenic compounds can cause BP issues.

An example of the latter method would be running heavy androgenic compounds up front (dbol for example) for the first 3-4 weeks, followed by anabolic/anti-catabolic compounds (for example Masteron) with a fat loss agent for 1 week. This method is similar to what A Rea popularized in his book "Building the perfect beast" However the emphasis is on Bulking cutting mini cycles as opposed to generally short AAS cycles (I think he proposed a maximum AAS period of 30 days including half-lives)

If you do need to stay at certain bf range/look but still want to gain muscle then obviously the closer to maintenance the least likely you are to gain fat. I think the real issue is water weight though. The majority of AAS users have issues with water retention and the bloat it gives while on cycle and sometimes this is misinterpreted as fat.

[train hard]

600 grams of protein is not only a waste of time and money but also bad for your health i doubt even Phil Heath would take that much maybe if your carbs are really low but you would need to be mr olympia standard before you would even need to think about taking that much

[mr-universe]

600g protein is a good amount, if ur taking enough drugs then it will be used and muscle growth is faster

[Leeroid]

600g is not that much when you consider that most guys that big will be eating at least 6000 cals a day.

[Cam0505]

6000 calories?

I'm 189cm, 85kg 10% bf small as f*ck...

According to calorie calculators my maintenance is 3100-3200(that's just with training, no added cardio). Not on gear at 20(21 on the 5th).

For reference what would this make my required calories on gear? Just curious as to how much testosterone increases your metabolic capacity.