Trying to make IF work

[Cameron_R]

I've been encouraged by the enthusiasm of a couple mates to try Intermittent Fasting. The Leangains, 16/8, is roughly what I'm trying

I understand the general rules:

- Fast for 16hrs, eat for 8

- Train at the end of your fast

- Biggest meal of the day immediately after your training

- High protein and Veggie intake

- Cycle your carbs (high on training days)

I have an office job, 7am to roughly 6pm weekdays, so getting to the gym before 7pm is very rare for me. This means it's hard to stick to the "Train at the end of your fast" rule.

Any advice from people who have a day job, work out in the evening, and who've managed to make this program work?

How much does it really matter if I train at the end of the fasting peroid vs train towards the end of my eating period, which is what I am doing currently!??

[jimmybro1]

Is it really worth it?

If your fasting all night then go to work and continue to fast your performance at work will be sh*t!

I don't think I would bother with IF, besides I don't think there are any real benefits from it tbh. Your fasting when your sleeping isn't that enough. I don't know about you but I like to always have a fuel tank of gas and definitely not going to let diet affect my work performance.

[Cameron_R]

Thanks, but I'm not looking for opinions on if it works or not.

I'm looking for advice on how to fit it into my lifestyle.

[Phedder]

Simple, eat before you train. The training at the end of the fast isn't really a rule, it's just one of the options. The key points I take from Leangains is 16/8 windows, biggest meal after training, and cycle carbs. You can still do that having 1 or even 2 meals before training.

If you're usually training at 7pm at night, you could have about 30% of your daily calories between 1-2pm, another smaller meal of 10-20% calories at about 5pm, and then a big post workout feast of 50-60% of your daily calories at say 8.30pm after you've finished training. I've personally never liked the training on an empty stomach, and when training in the evenings I'd usually follow a similar outline to what's above.

[DCYPL]

I work from 8.30 till 4.30 Mon-Fri.

I hit the gym at 4.30pm, fasted, and smash it to pieces. Since I have started fasting, its weird. I feel that I have MORE energy. At lunch time I am bobbing my head to music as I busy myself with something other than eating. Im not even hungry anymore until after I train.

All of my weights have increased, some signifincantly. How? I dunno..

I eat...HEAPS after training. Protein shake, my normal dinner that wufe makes me. I have no say in it but she takes my training into account. So always chicken, or beef or what ever, heaps of veg and carbs.

I have two more full meals before I sleep. I usually finish eating at 11ish, first meal around 6-6.30ish.

SLeep well, heaps of water (and I mean heaps)...no calories during the day. Coffee with no milk or sugar (I am used to it now)

My fat is fallin goff. I have no idea what my BF is, but its low...I should check

If your fasting all night then go to work and continue to fast your performance at work will be sh*t!

Personally, this isnt the case with me. If anything its helping...my job is really easy though so Im not sure

[jimmybro1]

Whats your reasons for doing IF?

[DCYPL]

Whats your reasons for doing IF?

Lose fat, gain muscle.. It works.

It would work even better if I ate better, but Im not competing or anything so I dont see any real restrictions in doing what I do

[jimmybro1]

Whats your reasons for doing IF?

Lose fat, gain muscle.. It works.

It would work even better if I ate better, but Im not competing or anything so I dont see any real restrictions in doing what I do

I don't think that is physically possible.

If your aiming to lose weight go on a calorie deficit and if your wanting to gain go on a calorie surplus. It's a simply energy balance and the first law of thermodynamics!

I just don't see the point in IF unless your are wanting 2-3 large meals rather than several smaller meals..

[crow#zero]

I've been doing IF for just over a year now following the 16 / 8 protocol, hovering around 2000 cals a day. In the last 3 months or so I've introduced carb backloading to the mix as well.

I don't train fasted all the time due to work / home life, but would if I could. I do manage to train fasted on Sunday mornings. I've actually done 20 hour fasts and pulled a PB with my deadlifts. I use a pre workout and bcaa.

I normally try to hold off eating for a couple of hours after the workout - just have a serve of bcaa every 2 hours or so (depends when I eat).

My reason for IF is primarily for fat loss and it's worked, and still working really well. And to think training without a huge breakfast scared the hell out of me.

[jimmybro1]

I've been doing IF for just over a year now following the 16 / 8 protocol, hovering around 2000 cals a day. In the last 3 months or so I've introduced carb backloading to the mix as well.

I don't train fasted all the time due to work / home life, but would if I could. I do manage to train fasted on Sunday mornings. I've actually done 20 hour fasts and pulled a PB with my deadlifts. I use a pre workout and bcaa.

I normally try to hold off eating for a couple of hours after the workout - just have a serve of bcaa every 2 hours or so (depends when I eat).

My reason for IF is primarily for fat loss and it's worked, and still working really well. And to think training without a huge breakfast scared the hell out of me.

But are you losing weight because your in a deficit.

You can't credit the weight loss to IF.

[DCYPL]

I've been doing IF for just over a year now following the 16 / 8 protocol, hovering around 2000 cals a day. In the last 3 months or so I've introduced carb backloading to the mix as well.

I don't train fasted all the time due to work / home life, but would if I could. I do manage to train fasted on Sunday mornings. I've actually done 20 hour fasts and pulled a PB with my deadlifts. I use a pre workout and bcaa.

I normally try to hold off eating for a couple of hours after the workout - just have a serve of bcaa every 2 hours or so (depends when I eat).

My reason for IF is primarily for fat loss and it's worked, and still working really well. And to think training without a huge breakfast scared the hell out of me.

Me too! Within the first month my PBs all changed. I wish I had a spotter so I could see what I can bench. Im shy as so I dont wanna ask some random haha!

I train fasted everyday, and also try not to eat for a good hour after. My first meal is protein overload LOVE IT! I use the curse, right now anyways...in fact as I write this I am tingling haha

I don't think that is physically possible.

If your aiming to lose weight go on a calorie deficit and if your wanting to gain go on a calorie surplus. It's a simply energy balance and the first law of thermodynamics!

Is it mannnn. I have become way more defined, my back and legs have grown.

So, I have lost fat...and dem gaaains are awesome! It just takes will power to get over the cravings

[jimmybro1]

You may have increased muscle mass and maintained bodyfat.

That will make it appear that you have lose fat when in fact all you have done is reduced your bodyfat percentage.

[DCYPL]

AS far as I am aware (which is really not that far to be honest ) people lose fat by burning it, getting that heart rate up and holding it there...

So, when I work out and burn....obviously Im not burning muscle and while fasted, I am getting my energy from somewhere right? But where?

FAT!??!??!?! AMARITE!?!

All the while my muscles are growing and my lower belly fat be shrinking...

[aidangro]

im with jimmy on this one,i tried it for a couple of weeks, first week with a deficit lost 1/2 a kg last 2 weeks without a deficit and back to square one, so guessing it has just the drop in calories. i know i didnt give it much time , but just didn't see the point

[aidangro]

Research shows that people who burn fat during their workouts actually burn less fat the rest of the day. Overtime, fat burning is not an immediate process, rather, it occurs over the course of, not a few hours, but a few days.. As you burn more carbohydrates during your workout, the body will burn more fat post exercise. This “afterburn effect” where your metabolism is elevated for several hours or days following your workout is critical when debating the benefits of fasted cardio. While you may burn more fat during your workout on an empty stomach, your overall workout output will be lower.2 Your body’s ability to burn fat post-exercise is compromised. Consider the whole 24 hour period and cardio on an empty stomach is less effective.3

[jimmybro1]

AS far as I am aware (which is really not that far to be honest ) people lose fat by burning it, getting that heart rate up and holding it there...

So, when I work out and burn....obviously Im not burning muscle and while fasted, I am getting my energy from somewhere right? But where?

FAT!??!??!?! AMARITE!?!

All the while my muscles are growing and my lower belly fat be shrinking...

On a empty stomach you will burn fat and be catabolic, but when you eat food if it is in excess you will gain fat. There will be some equilibrium.

Just cause your eating doesn't mean than you are building muscle.

[Pseudonym]

I've just finished eating my first meal of the day... after a leg workout.

In my experience, total calories are still what counts - even on IF. However, IF seems to keep me leaner with more calories than a standard 6-meal diet does, and in particular it seems more forgiving with carbs.

I'll try to get a photo up this weekend.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

jimmy i agree with you but you are wasting your time arguing here. most of the people who flock on to IF (it went viral some time last year i think thanks to hodgetwins) are newbies and don't want anything to do with counting calories... for some people it's working simply because there is less snacking through the day. others just because they've committed themselves to a regiment that when they finally do eat, they are a little more careful in what they indulge in.

whatever it is, it generally works for at least a little while. once it stops working, they can come back to the diet section and learn more about calories in vs out.

DCYPL just because you are working out fasted doesn't mean all the activities you do are fueled by your fat stores. most likely you are just using up glycogen stores

[aidangro]

jimmy i agree with you but you are wasting your time arguing here. most of the people who flock on to IF (it went viral some time last year i think thanks to hodgetwins) are newbies and don't want anything to do with counting calories... for some people it's working simply because there is less snacking through the day. others just because they've committed themselves to a regiment that when they finally do eat, they are a little more careful in what they indulge in.

whatever it is, it generally works for at least a little while. once it stops working, they can come back to the diet section and learn more about calories in vs out.

DCYPL just because you are working out fasted doesn't mean all the activities you do are fueled by your fat stores. most likely you are just using up glycogen stores

^^^

[Cameron_R]

Whats your reasons for doing IF?

For me: I've been a fit guy my whole life, never been fat, never been shredded. It would be cool to one day get shredded.

I am too lazy and not nearly OCD enough to count calories so IF appeals to me as something that I might actually be able to stick to.

newbies and don't want anything to do with counting calories...

Bingo!

I am not a newbie to the gym (I'm no expert), but I am a definite newbie to dieting.

for some people it's working simply because there is less snacking through the day. others just because they've committed themselves to a regiment that when they finally do eat, they are a little more careful in what they indulge in.

Who knows, and honestly I don't care why it works as long as it does and I can stick to it (ie work it into my lifestyle)

[Cameron_R]

Simple, eat before you train.

...

If you're usually training at 7pm at night, you could have about 30% of your daily calories between 1-2pm, another smaller meal of 10-20% calories at about 5pm, and then a big post workout feast of 50-60% of your daily calories at say 8.30pm after you've finished training.

Thanks Phedder. I'll definitely try this.

In my experience, total calories are still what counts - even on IF. However, IF seems to keep me leaner with more calories than a standard 6-meal diet does, and in particular it seems more forgiving with carbs.

This is the sort of thing that has got me interested! Where I live, a clean, fresh, wholefoods diet is f*&cking impossible. So having the option to throw in some Maccas, because I'm stuck in the office late at night and I don't want to walk across the motor way to the road side food stalls because I'll probably get held up at gun point, is very good!!

[jimmybro1]

jimmy i agree with you but you are wasting your time arguing here. most of the people who flock on to IF (it went viral some time last year i think thanks to hodgetwins) are newbies and don't want anything to do with counting calories... for some people it's working simply because there is less snacking through the day. others just because they've committed themselves to a regiment that when they finally do eat, they are a little more careful in what they indulge in.

whatever it is, it generally works for at least a little while. once it stops working, they can come back to the diet section and learn more about calories in vs out.

DCYPL just because you are working out fasted doesn't mean all the activities you do are fueled by your fat stores. most likely you are just using up glycogen stores

Yip just flogging a dead horse apparently

[crow#zero]

But are you losing weight because your in a deficit.

You can't credit the weight loss to IF.

IF was actually a bit of a last resort for me. Without typing out my life story I basically lost a whole bunch of weight a long time ago on a terrible cut and have have struggled ever since to lose the last of it.

I tried Keto which worked up until a certain point, then I moved to Carb Cycling, which again plateaued, IF helped to break that plateau and have managed to lose more BF while making strength gains over the last year on my 5-3-1 / WSBB.

No doubt caloric deficit is at work here, but for some people it actually isnt enough to get the whole job done (the last 10% takes 90% of the time)

I counted up my calories a long time ago and have adhered to a similar eating plan every day so I pretty much know that what I'm taking in is in check and suits my goals.

There are numerous other benefits behind IF as well. I've been feeling great for the last year, I don't get hungry even towards the end of my fast - sometimes I break it early, sometimes I break it late - hell some days I just have breakfast anyway. So it's also an approach to meal timing that works for me on quite a few levels.

Not for everyone, and not everyone needs it. People have been losing fat / building muscle on standard 6-8 meals / breakfasts etc for years without IF so it's no miracle conception. But for me it's helped when I really needed it. Still got a ways to go though, dat jelly gut.

BTW I was using IF before TMW mentioned it (not really relevant - juss sayin)

[Riccardo]

jimmy i agree with you but you are wasting your time arguing here. most of the people who flock on to IF (it went viral some time last year i think thanks to hodgetwins) are newbies and don't want anything to do with counting calories... for some people it's working simply because there is less snacking through the day. others just because they've committed themselves to a regiment that when they finally do eat, they are a little more careful in what they indulge in.

whatever it is, it generally works for at least a little while. once it stops working, they can come back to the diet section and learn more about calories in vs out.

DCYPL just because you are working out fasted doesn't mean all the activities you do are fueled by your fat stores. most likely you are just using up glycogen stores

Yip just flogging a dead horse apparently

Are you two for real? Have you even read about IF or what it does? Firstly, IF is not just about eating with an 8 hour fast, it still requires you to be in calorie deficit to lose weight, so people who do IF properly do it counting calories, IF doesn't dispute calories in vs calories out. I suggest you do some searching on the previous threads last year and read through them.

Secondly, the benefit of IF, as you obviously haven't read through the science behind it, is increased fat loss and muscle retention due to the muscle sparring and fat loss benefits of increased growth hormone secretion. Fasting is probably one of the most powerful stimulators of GH release. There are other hormones in play here also but I can't be bothered giving a lecture so go read up on leptin, GH, cortsiol and the hormonal entrainment of meal patterning on the leangains blog. Further to this, many people can't eat breakfast in the early morning, it makes them sluggish and they feel like crap. Some people even get incredibly nauseous, this of course is individual but even those who don't, more often than not, report feeling more awake, alert, have more energy and can better focus on tasks during the day. It's also really convenient not having to eat every 5 minutes and enjoy large meals at the end of the day and going to bed feeling really full.

For the first few weeks it can be tough adjusting but once your satiety hormone secretion profiles adjust, you're away flying. Trainings aren't really affected at all either and many report being stronger, while being on a calorie deficit.

Lastly, the Hodge twins did not invent IF, it's been around long before them, they are just some random dudes who tried it and made a youtube channel about it. IF has been around in the scientific community longer than the Hodge twins.

EDIT: re; your comments about glycogen, yes glycogen is used up as energy, but it is used up as energy eating 6,8,12,24 meals a day also. I don't get your point? Glycogen can only fuel so much of your daily activity, at some point it will be replenished and at some point the rest of your energy expenditure throughout the day has to come from somewhere else, it can't be created from nothing can it? (The first law of thermodynamics).

[DCYPL]

DEM GAINS!