Not seeing the progress I expected

[Lunchie]

Hey all

I have been training pretty hard for the past 2 months since Xmas and I seem to not be making the progress I really expected.

I have noticed my arms are getting bigger (a bit) but thats it. Also I have noticed my weight loss has really leveled off. I am still losing fat (I think) as my work pants and shirt seem to be getting looser (belt not tight enough anymore to keep my pants up). The main thing frustrating me is that my chest doesn't seem to be improving (turning man breasts into pecs) and my weight lose (on the scales) has really slowed down.

My training journal is here.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18042

And this is an example of what I eat on a given day

Breakie 3 eggs with a little cream mixed in and some grated cheese.

An apple or a kiwifruit

Morning snack

kiwifruit, some cashew nuts or maybe some yoghurt.

Lunch

Steak or maybe some chops from the night before or tunafish.

Afternoon snack

fruit, probably some nuts or yoghurt

Dinner

Chicken, steak, or lamb chops or beef stirfry

steamed brocoli, cauliflower and some raw carrots and tomatoes

Workout

After workout snack

Pure whey protein in water

Then depending how I feel/what my body is craving I might have some sort of protein (chicken, steak, etc) or some fruiit (apples, kiwifruit) or some scrambled eggs.

[Sibolovin]

Stick all of above in myfitnesspal.com and see how many calories.

Then see how many calories you need to eat. If your eating more calories than your body needs it will store as fat, or if eating the right amount will stay the same.

Need to eat less calories or exercise more. My 2c, which may not be worth 2 actual cents :oops:

[Merlin]

I wouldn't worry too much about scale numbers if your clothes are still getting baggier.

How much cardio do you do?

What's the intensity like when training? Are you really having to really push yourself to pump out your final reps? Or just stopping at say, 10 or 12 because that's what you've got written down?

[Lunchie]

I wouldn't worry too much about scale numbers if your clothes are still getting baggier.

How much cardio do you do?

What's the intensity like when training? Are you really having to really push yourself to pump out your final reps? Or just stopping at say, 10 or 12 because that's what you've got written down?

Intensity is good. First set is okay, second set the last half is hard/I really feel it and the final set is always a real push to finish the final half/third.

[Lunchie]

Stick all of above in myfitnesspal.com and see how many calories.

Then see how many calories you need to eat. If your eating more calories than your body needs it will store as fat, or if eating the right amount will stay the same.

Need to eat less calories or exercise more. My 2c, which may not be worth 2 actual cents :oops:

Okay I did the fitnesspal calorie thing

Came back with 2200 calories.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

from what you described, it does actually look like you are making progress. don't cut yourself short, you are still in the early days. within the next 4 months you should keep seeing some re-composition going on with your body as long as you keep training hard and eating well

your arms got bigger, you know why that is? probably because you have a really nice mental connection with that muscle and you also enjoy training it(just guessing here but it's very likely) so you go harder and push past boundaries when you have to. you are curling 12.5 dbs in each hand for 12 reps/3 sets but only pushing 17.5s for chest for the same reps/sets. considering how much bigger and how many more muscles are utilized in the chest press position, you should be pushing tonnes more with chest in contrast to arms.

chest is very hard for a lot of people (myself included). I started lifting sept 2011 and didn't see any visible progress in the chest area until around a year later. and only since the past couple months they've started sticking out when im wearing a shirt. firstly, I was never using the chest as much as I thought I was.. connection was terrible ( couldn't even do the pec dance). took a while to develop that real connection with the pecs as well and that included learning the correct bench press technique as well as correct way to hold the dumbbells when pressing with those. if you haven't already, i suggest you look in to mastering technique before you try stacking more weights on the bar (though in the end it could just be that you are holding yourself back by not putting enough weight on there.. im just guessing what's the most likely thing based on experience). for starters, if you were to picture yourself doing chest press (or pushups for that matter) from a birds eye view, you should see your arms on the body in an arrow head position rather than a T shape. the next step is to consciously focus on pushing your shoulders back tight on the bench throughout the entire movement.

just remember with your training at this stage that you stand to see the best progress in over all re-composition (lose fat, build muscle) while utilizing all the big compound movements (all barbell : bench press, military press, row, dead lift, squat).

i don't' even know why you have an arms day at this point. it's fun to train them but you are kind of wasting a gym session just doing curls.

you should look in to organizing a split with these major categories as a beginner :

* shoulders

* back (biceps get hit from a full on back day, you can either do more bicep days to really fry them out here or train an antagonist group like triceps.. or train both)

* legs

* chest

[severe]

Two months is F-all. Even with everything in place, it is like growing in height. This game takes time. You are getting the clues that something is happening as your clothes are starting to get loose. There may be change that has happened where fat is going as muscle is growing, and the amount of each negates the other on the scales.

Monitor your strength increases, your recovery improvements, your need to change your wardrobe etc. take every small triumph and rejoice. Two months is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

[Lunchie]

okay wicked, thanks guys. Really appreciate the feedback. I think I really need to up my chest kgs. Biggest problem I have is the gym I go to has no proper bench press. The only way to do it is with two separate dumbells (its a 24hour gym so you cant have a proper bench press). Only bench press is one of those supported ones with the bar in-between a rack. (I think its called a squats rack?) basically the bar can only move up and down not side to side.

Also when I do my chest I try to consciously visualize using my pecorial muscles not my arms. I think the reality is that I have such big man boobs that I won't see any chest progress until my tits are gone. You guys agree?

[Lunchie]

from what you described, it does actually look like you are making progress. don't cut yourself short, you are still in the early days. within the next 4 months you should keep seeing some re-composition going on with your body as long as you keep training hard and eating well

your arms got bigger, you know why that is? probably because you have a really nice mental connection with that muscle and you also enjoy training it(just guessing here but it's very likely) so you go harder and push past boundaries when you have to. you are curling 12.5 dbs in each hand for 12 reps/3 sets but only pushing 17.5s for chest for the same reps/sets. considering how much bigger and how many more muscles are utilized in the chest press position, you should be pushing tonnes more with chest in contrast to arms.

chest is very hard for a lot of people (myself included). I started lifting sept 2011 and didn't see any visible progress in the chest area until around a year later. and only since the past couple months they've started sticking out when im wearing a shirt. firstly, I was never using the chest as much as I thought I was.. connection was terrible ( couldn't even do the pec dance). took a while to develop that real connection with the pecs as well and that included learning the correct bench press technique as well as correct way to hold the dumbbells when pressing with those. if you haven't already, i suggest you look in to mastering technique before you try stacking more weights on the bar (though in the end it could just be that you are holding yourself back by not putting enough weight on there.. im just guessing what's the most likely thing based on experience). for starters, if you were to picture yourself doing chest press (or pushups for that matter) from a birds eye view, you should see your arms on the body in an arrow head position rather than a T shape. the next step is to consciously focus on pushing your shoulders back tight on the bench throughout the entire movement.

just remember with your training at this stage that you stand to see the best progress in over all re-composition (lose fat, build muscle) while utilizing all the big compound movements (all barbell : bench press, military press, row, dead lift, squat).

i don't' even know why you have an arms day at this point. it's fun to train them but you are kind of wasting a gym session just doing curls.

you should look in to organizing a split with these major categories as a beginner :

* shoulders

* back (biceps get hit from a full on back day, you can either do more bicep days to really fry them out here or train an antagonist group like triceps.. or train both)

* legs

* chest

Just to check you mean that during the bench press you keep your arms tucked into your sides rather than splayed out as if your pushing with you shoulders rather than pushing your pecs together with the movement?

[tomsammce]

Eggs, cream and cheese? Wtf

[Lunchie]

Eggs, cream and cheese? Wtf

scrambled eggs bro.

[Merlin]

Just to check you mean that during the bench press you keep your arms tucked into your sides rather than splayed out as if your pushing with you shoulders rather than pushing your pecs together with the movement?

Before, or even while you're lying on your back - squeeze your shoulder blades together. Use a grip that is maybe a hands space out from shoulder width. Do a few half reps from the negative position of the exercise during your warm up.

I found this was the best way to really get that muscle/mind connection with my chest. Once you start on your working sets its easier to activate and feel the muscle work while using a full range of motion.

Might not work for everyone, but give it a shot.

Edit: Oh, and bring the bar down to around ya nips

[Lunchie]

Just to check you mean that during the bench press you keep your arms tucked into your sides rather than splayed out as if your pushing with you shoulders rather than pushing your pecs together with the movement?

Before, or even while you're lying on your back - squeeze your shoulder blades together. Use a grip that is maybe a hands space out from shoulder width. Do a few half reps from the negative position of the exercise during your warm up.

I found this was the best way to really get that muscle/mind connection with my chest. Once you start on your working sets its easier to activate and feel the muscle work while using a full range of motion.

Might not work for everyone, but give it a shot.

Edit: Oh, and bring the bar down to around ya nips

I bring bar down to just below my nipples but when I raise it I lift to just below my chin, am told that's the correct method, that it's not meant to be a straight up and down motion, there is some angle in the lift.

What is the idea behind the pinching of the shoulder blades together in terms of isolating the chest?

[teamfatboy]

okay wicked, thanks guys. Really appreciate the feedback. I think I really need to up my chest kgs. Biggest problem I have is the gym I go to has no proper bench press. The only way to do it is with two separate dumbells (its a 24hour gym so you cant have a proper bench press). Only bench press is one of those supported ones with the bar in-between a rack. (I think its called a squats rack?) basically the bar can only move up and down not side to side.

Also when I do my chest I try to consciously visualize using my pecorial muscles not my arms. I think the reality is that I have such big man boobs that I won't see any chest progress until my tits are gone. You guys agree?

That gizmo's a Smith machine... not bad for bench, 'cos of the safety aspect that rules out free bar. It's not AS effective, 'cos the guides make it easier to stabilise the bar, but if you can go heavier on the Smith than with dumbbells, that's good for variety. Some Smiths are vertical, but most are slightly inclined - and yes, when you think about it, your shoulders are about "just below chin" level, so when arms are fully extended, that's where the bar has to be. Oh, and dumbbells have their place 'cos they expose single-side weaknesses which everyone has....

Do you write down your weights? ... if your b'fat's up there a bit then strength's as good a gauge of progress as anything, cos tiny pecs won't move as much weight as big 'uns. Plus, if you're on Xkg for 10, next week, go X+2.5 for ten, not X-5 'cos it's an off week....

Speaking of b'fat, remember that muscle is more dense than fat, so the girths (tape measurements) will be a useful tool... your trou are looser, so that's a clue. Have someone, anyone, run a tape over chest, waist (navel line), hips (widest point of ass), one quad and one bicep, and write them down. Don't measure them often, do it cold, not after training, but write them down, along with weight. THEN you'll have a gauge on progress.

[Pseudonym]

Eggs, cream and cheese? Wtf

scrambled eggs bro.

I think what Tom's saying is that those are some pretty luxurious scrambled eggs! :pfft:

You're introducing a lot of unnecessary fat with the cream and cheese. Many bodybuilders make their scrambled eggs with water, and actually throw away several yolks just to reduce the fat content.

If you do decide to cut the diet further (and I'm not saying you should just yet), then that would be one of the first places I'd start.

[Lunchie]

okay wicked, thanks guys. Really appreciate the feedback. I think I really need to up my chest kgs. Biggest problem I have is the gym I go to has no proper bench press. The only way to do it is with two separate dumbells (its a 24hour gym so you cant have a proper bench press). Only bench press is one of those supported ones with the bar in-between a rack. (I think its called a squats rack?) basically the bar can only move up and down not side to side.

Also when I do my chest I try to consciously visualize using my pecorial muscles not my arms. I think the reality is that I have such big man boobs that I won't see any chest progress until my tits are gone. You guys agree?

That gizmo's a Smith machine... not bad for bench, 'cos of the safety aspect that rules out free bar. It's not AS effective, 'cos the guides make it easier to stabilise the bar, but if you can go heavier on the Smith than with dumbbells, that's good for variety. Some Smiths are vertical, but most are slightly inclined - and yes, when you think about it, your shoulders are about "just below chin" level, so when arms are fully extended, that's where the bar has to be. Oh, and dumbbells have their place 'cos they expose single-side weaknesses which everyone has....

Do you write down your weights? ... if your b'fat's up there a bit then strength's as good a gauge of progress as anything, cos tiny pecs won't move as much weight as big 'uns. Plus, if you're on Xkg for 10, next week, go X+2.5 for ten, not X-5 'cos it's an off week....

Speaking of b'fat, remember that muscle is more dense than fat, so the girths (tape measurements) will be a useful tool... your trou are looser, so that's a clue. Have someone, anyone, run a tape over chest, waist (navel line), hips (widest point of ass), one quad and one bicep, and write them down. Don't measure them often, do it cold, not after training, but write them down, along with weight. THEN you'll have a gauge on progress.

hehe you didn't read the first post did you? it has a link to my work out journal with all the weights mate.

[teamfatboy]

Do you write down your weights? ... if your b'fat's up there a bit then strength's as good a gauge of progress as anything, cos tiny pecs won't move as much weight as big 'uns. Plus, if you're on Xkg for 10, next week, go X+2.5 for ten, not X-5 'cos it's an off week....

Speaking of b'fat, remember that muscle is more dense than fat, so the girths (tape measurements) will be a useful tool... your trou are looser, so that's a clue. Have someone, anyone, run a tape over chest, waist (navel line), hips (widest point of ass), one quad and one bicep, and write them down. Don't measure them often, do it cold, not after training, but write them down, along with weight. THEN you'll have a gauge on progress.

hehe you didn't read the first post did you? it has a link to my work out journal with all the weights mate.

Yep, missed the link to the journal... my bad so, i take it you drag a notebook to the gym so you can work out for this week what the progression should be? Fair call... use the same place to record the tape numbers :nod: 'cos progress is progress, scales suck and if you don't write it down it never happened

[Lunchie]

I had one other question, atm me and my flatmate have been following a 3 day program

day 1 arms

day 2 legs/back

day 3 chest

I am finding that I am going down to the gym more than the 3 days that my training partner will do per week, basically we are training mon wed friday but I am finding I want to train more, do you guys think it would be best to just pick one of the the 3 programs and repeat it as long as it means not training the same thing twice in a row or should I try and find other exercises that fit into those catagorys and do that instead?

[teamfatboy]

If you can handle a more demanding schedule, then crack on... or do three weights days hard, and stretching/ cardio on the off days.

Seems shoulders are missing from that rotation..

it might be controversial but I reckon a day on arms is a day wasted... throw in a big muscle group to burn calories.

Back-biceps - chest-triceps - shoulders/hams - quads would be a good four-day split for instance.

Having a training partner's good, but it's only part of the whole, so maybe do the heavy stuff where you need a spotter - like quads (squats) and chest (bench) with him, and the back or shoulder stuff which doesn't need a spotter, on the off days.

[Lunchie]

Yeah to be honest this program was only ever to get me started, I have spoken with a PT at the GYM and he is going to create a 3 day split program in a way that he thinks is best. So I will only be doing my current program until the end of the month or so, then will most likely be taking a more educated approach.

The biggest thing I have to remember is to keep it simple stupid. Basically I can easily over-think my training and then get stressed about the best way to do it without realizing that ANY training/lifting if done safely is going to be a benefit.

Also I can only do a 3 day split due to my schedule, sometimes more but sometimes not, essentially I can commit to always at least 3 days but sometimes not more so I wouldn't want to have a 4 day program for that reason.

Am I right in saying that as long as I allow a muscle group to rest for at least 48 hours (monday-wednesday etc) then its fine to train as much as I want (train every day if I wanted basically) provided I am eating/sleeping right?

p.s. I do a wood chop thing for my shoulders with the cable machine

[bang_bang]

That split is horrible. Do a push, pull, legs split. If you can do a 4th day do shoulders/abs. e.g

Monday: (push) benchpress, incline dbs, cable flys, skullcrushers, cable pushdowns.

Wendesday: (legs) squats, deadlifts, leg press, leg extensions, stiff leg deadlifts, lying leg curls.

Friday: (pull) pull ups, tbar rows, db rows, seated cable rows, barbell curls, db hammer curls.

sat/sunday optional: db shoulder press, seated behind the neck smith machine press, db raises, behind the back cable raises, whatever for abs.

Work in the 8-12 rep range mainly, aim for 10-12 sets for each muscle group, throw in 1 or 2 15-20 rep sets on the last exercise for each muscle group. Hope this helps.

[southernsamurai]

Agree with what bang bang said.

Focus your routine on big compound movements:

Back:

Pull ups, Deadlifts (posterior chain too), rows (DB, t bar, BB)

Chest:

BB/DB incline, flat

Dips (BW or weighted)

Heavy flyes

Legs:

Squats (front or back), Hacks

Leg press

Lunges

Romanian DL, stiff leg DL, GHR etc

Delts:

DB/BB/Behind neck press

Upright rows

Raises for assistance

Arms:

Close grip bench, skulls, french press, dips (elbows in close)

BB curls, DB curls, hammers

More movements for chest, back and legs obviously and supplement them with good assistance exercises. Focus on getting stronger each week

[tongandingo]

Dont complain about the results if your not putting the work in.

Train 5-6 days a week especially if your trying to lose weight do cardio sessions aswell in addition to these lifting sessions.

2 months is basically nothing... Give it your all for a minimum of 12 months then reflect on results....Ive been training balls to the wall for 4 solid years thats diet everything and am still not where I want to be by any stretch.

So food for thought bro keep it up the results will come if u put in the hardwork man.

okay wicked, thanks guys. Really appreciate the feedback. I think I really need to up my chest kgs. Biggest problem I have is the gym I go to has no proper bench press. The only way to do it is with two separate dumbells (its a 24hour gym so you cant have a proper bench press). Only bench press is one of those supported ones with the bar in-between a rack. (I think its called a squats rack?) basically the bar can only move up and down not side to side.

Also when I do my chest I try to consciously visualize using my pecorial muscles not my arms. I think the reality is that I have such big man boobs that I won't see any chest progress until my tits are gone. You guys agree?

That gizmo's a Smith machine... not bad for bench, 'cos of the safety aspect that rules out free bar. It's not AS effective, 'cos the guides make it easier to stabilise the bar, but if you can go heavier on the Smith than with dumbbells, that's good for variety. Some Smiths are vertical, but most are slightly inclined - and yes, when you think about it, your shoulders are about "just below chin" level, so when arms are fully extended, that's where the bar has to be. Oh, and dumbbells have their place 'cos they expose single-side weaknesses which everyone has....

Do you write down your weights? ... if your b'fat's up there a bit then strength's as good a gauge of progress as anything, cos tiny pecs won't move as much weight as big 'uns. Plus, if you're on Xkg for 10, next week, go X+2.5 for ten, not X-5 'cos it's an off week....

Speaking of b'fat, remember that muscle is more dense than fat, so the girths (tape measurements) will be a useful tool... your trou are looser, so that's a clue. Have someone, anyone, run a tape over chest, waist (navel line), hips (widest point of ass), one quad and one bicep, and write them down. Don't measure them often, do it cold, not after training, but write them down, along with weight. THEN you'll have a gauge on progress.

hehe you didn't read the first post did you? it has a link to my work out journal with all the weights mate.