Dorian's advice for young guys, from Auckland Seminar

[nate225]

When I told him of the amount of young guys in NZ / Aust jumping onto AAS with very little training history, and using dosages and compounds that seemed extreme, he answered (my memory not word for word quote):

* Firstly why would anyone use steroids if they weren't competing, anyone can build a decent physique without steroids

* Guys need to learn how to train, how their body responds, and how to eat properly before they consider steroids

* The internet was both a blessing and a curse, and that sometimes he felt there was too much accessible information (or misinformation) that guys used without thought

* He cited reading his supposed Mr Olympia cycle, and was astounded at the figures and didn't actually know some of the compounds mentioned! Although funny in a way he was concerned people would attempt to follow such information hoping to achieve a physique like his.

A very good teenage / junior competitor (a National Champion), spoke to Dorian 1:1 for 20 minutes. He told me he told Dorian how he wanted to go Pro and knew he would need to use steroids soon. Dorian replied you're too young, wait til 23 and win every competition in NZL in all federations before you consider going Pro (I bet some Pro's both in NZL and beyond had the benefit of those words before they ended their competitive careers by accepting a Pro card too early in their journey).

Of interest this guy taped his arms at over 20" the other day, so if Yates said he's not ready I wonder what his thoughts would be about some of the guys I've seen jumping on prematurely (only IMHO of course :grin: ).

When I told my friend (the ex IFBB Pro), he was rapt to hear what Dorian had said, replying I wish some of those young guys were there to hear that as I've been saying it for years but no one listens.

It was interesting to see very few of those newbie types there (maybe a case of hear no evil? Or outa sight outa mind?). Equally interesting were the number of experienced "old hands", real bodybuilders (including a few Pro's) there consistently nodding their heads in agreeance with Dorian's advice.

[tomsammce]

Ppl tell youngsters to stay off the gear till they are older... But what age did they start? It's too easy for experienced guys to stand in front of a crowd they never met and get hypocritical and dish out advice which makes them look like responsible individuals.

And couldn't disagree more with the use of steroids for non competing individuals. I mean what competing somehow gives your use some justification? Ok sure if ur winning lotsa money but to everyone else, what's the difference?

Just because u starve yourself for 10 weeks and chuck abit of tan doesn't make you anymore educated on the subject nor give you anymore right to use it. That's just such a ridiculous mindset to follow.

If your educated and it's benefitting you be it socially, professionally, financially, physically or emotionally and the person has made an informed decision then that's all there is to it. They shouldn't be looked down on because they don't compete in bodybuilding or strength sports.

[tomsammce]

Just my opinion.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

Hypocritical as you say Tom but why would you expect a no holds bar conversation with a guy like him? Maybe Robby Robinson but certainly not Dorian - he's taking a politically correct stand and giving pretty responsible advice. A man in his position can be very influential for the younger ones and it's great to hear him speaking this way about it - it is illegal and I can't imagine it being good for his business/image if he's touring around advising teenage boys to jump on cycle. Sure, the ones who are absolutely dead set on taking gear will still do so but even if he can persuade a few youngins to at least hold out for longer then he's doing a great job.

Good over all messages but yeah, little judgemental how he says its only justifiable for competitive BBers. what about power lifters, fitness models, physical trainers, sports people ( :pfft: ) and just people with interests in progressing themselves to the next level

[justhell]

well said Tomsammce,

I agree 100%.

:nod:

[nate225]

Just my opinion.

And one you're entitled to :nod:

Ppl tell youngsters to stay off the gear till they are older... But what age did they start? It's too easy for experienced guys to stand in front of a crowd they never met and get hypocritical and dish out advice which makes them look like responsible individuals.

And couldn't disagree more with the use of steroids for non competing individuals. I mean what competing somehow gives your use some justification? Ok sure if ur winning lotsa money but to everyone else, what's the difference?

His point was (as I took it from how it was said at the time) that anyone could get a decent physique without steroids, but in order to win a show you needed an even playing field.

I don't think he intended to hypocritical, can't recall when he said he started but he did mention it. He seemed straight up when asked about HGH & Insulin (said without battling an eyelid that he was using 8iu HGH for about 5 years running and only used Insulin once for (?) weeks. He then gave his views on both compounds.

Just because u starve yourself for 10 weeks and chuck abit of tan doesn't make you anymore educated on the subject nor give you anymore right to use it. That's just such a ridiculous mindset to follow.

As above, means to an end to win shows.

If your educated and it's benefitting you be it socially, professionally, financially, physically or emotionally and the person has made an informed decision then that's all there is to it. They shouldn't be looked down on because they don't compete in bodybuilding or strength sports.

He didn't look down upon anyone he just gave an opinion. No one asked him his views on whether using steroids to help a PT business, or to sell more steroids, was a valid use. It makes sense though if you take on board your above comments about benefitting someone professionally and financially. Same applies to professional sports I would say - if you had to take steroids to earn a living or extend your playing career etc it seems like a pretty big motivator. Yate's discussion was focused on bodybuilding though to be fair.

You should've gone along Tom, it was refreshing after the BS most try to peddle at seminars. :nod:

[tomsammce]

I wasn't saying he should f*ck himself up by talking lol. Just meant that its naive to think that waiting is best if u want to get to the top. And who would believe a shit yarn like that even if it is from D Yates

It's much more beneficial to start at 19 than wait till 23. That's 4 years of assisted growth you'll have over the other person. Disregarding genetics and the other factors that differ person to person then the person who started at 19 has a huge advantage over the person who started at 23. 99.9% of ppl who want to be mr Olympia and are natural at 23 fools.

It's just not gonna happen lol.

[tomsammce]

Most of the seminars are pretty mellow and ppl are too scared to ask questions. But I didn't even know he was in nz until I saw him on sat night in town. I was wasted as and jesus that just tripped me the f*ck out even more seeing him sitting next to me at a bar down the viaduct. Pretty cool.

Wowziz lol

[nate225]

Hypocritical as you say Tom but why would you expect a no holds bar conversation with a guy like him? Maybe Robby Robinson but certainly not Dorian - he's taking a politically correct stand and giving pretty responsible advice. A man in his position can be very influential for the younger ones and it's great to hear him speaking this way about it - it is illegal and I can't imagine it being good for his business/image if he's touring around advising teenage boys to jump on cycle. Sure, the ones who are absolutely dead set on taking gear will still do so but even if he can persuade a few youngins to at least hold out for longer then he's doing a great job.

Good over all messages but yeah, little judgemental how he says its only justifiable for competitive BBers. what about power lifters, fitness models, physical trainers, sports people ( :pfft: ) and just people with interests in progressing themselves to the next level

Sorry my summary might have mislead you a wee bit. It definitely wasn't PC, he actually invited all questions as he had no sponsors to worry about anymore.

As mentioned earlier it was bodybuilder centric so really couldn't surmise his views on other sports from what he said there.

The age things interesting. Apparently there's an interview where he's asked how he would feel if his son used steroids, his reply being he's 20 and already done his first cycle. Now assuming this was actually said it's fair to assume his point is more about training history (and the associated learning) than physical age (Lewis has trained for years despite being a young guy).

I'd personally agree with this. I've seen young guys hit gear and do really well if they've got a solid base. The ones I've seen get on without that haven't done so well tend to be out of the game relatively quickly without acheiving much (yoyo's :grin:).

[Leeroid]

I hate these kinds of threads

[I Declare War]

I hate these kinds of threads

Why?

[nate225]

I hate these kinds of threads

Why?

Ignorant motherfuckers often do IDW. :grin:

The facts are that this thread is just my regurgitated account of a 6x Mr Olympias view on a topic. Heaps to hate there I guess? :roll:

[nate225]

There was some good info on training, recovery, dieting and even TRT for older fellas to IDW.

I'll add these somewhere in another appropriate thread when I get time. I learnt a fair bit, happens sometimes if you keep an open mind! :pfft: :grin:

[tomsammce]

Lol forums gonna forum.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

oh yup training age makes even more sense than physical age. i wonder if his son got a dose of those superior genetics, any more yates sandows incoming?

[Leeroid]

I hate these kinds of threads

Why?

Lol, I respect Dorian but some of the views in these kinds of threads are just so outdated they're comparable to "You shouldn't have sex until you're married". And guys full of themselves bashing noobs

[AZIDE]

.

[Android]

Am sure it's all out of context this advice, and everyone's OTT response to it.

man get over yourselves, if you have to get on a forum to vent how you feel you should be be able to take heaps of gear without begin judged then you mistake the purpose of this forum...my advice is just take the stuff and keep your mouth shut! LOL ... and you'll achieve your YOLO freedom nirvana utopia life

bunch of school kids (^___^)

[tomsammce]

Am sure it's all out of context this advice, and everyone's OTT response to it.

man get over yourselves, if you have to get on a forum to vent how you feel you should be be able to take heaps of gear without begin judged then you mistake the purpose of this forum...my advice is just take the stuff and keep your mouth shut! LOL ... and you'll achieve your YOLO freedom nirvana utopia life

bunch of school kids (^___^)

Says the guy who tells the forum the most about his life lol

[humpty]

One thing that is not brough up often is the fact that steroids actually change your physical structure, increase bone mass and can increase muscle cells over time (hyperplasia).

So if someone at 21 wanted to be a big mofo but didnt have the genetics should he just hammer away at nothing or increase his genetic ability through the use of AAS?

[I Declare War]

One thing that is not brough up often is the fact that steroids actually change your physical structure, increase bone mass and can increase muscle cells over time (hyperplasia).

So if someone at 21 wanted to be a big mofo but didnt have the genetics should he just hammer away at nothing or increase his genetic ability through the use of AAS?

As far as I know AAS don't really have any effect on hyperplasia. HGH maybe... but AAS, nope!

I'm sure Tom Prince would agree

[nate225]

^^ correct no noticeable hyperplasia from aas. Limited to hgh, igf1, mgf etc.

Didn't Tom Prince die or get real sick? Was a bunch of NPC guys in a heavy weight class one year (90's) & the majority of the lineup got longterm health issues that meant competitive retirement or actually died. Can't remember details...who knows maybe a slight urban myth but I'm thinking guys like Prince, Leftler (sp), f*ck I'm off to google this.....

Google'd the early to mid 90's NPC, casualty list pretty long and probably significant statistically. Wonder if anything different was going on then? Maybe due to the massive shift in mass required to win at that point and not a lot of information? Im guessing...

Prince, Leffler, Long, Francois, Demayo, Titus (kinda!), Whitsett, Cormier (tho back on track), Wheeler, Cotrell

[Android]

plasma expanders were talked about alot during those years.

chad nichols, milos and sonbaty famous for their little bitching about it and if they were trying it out am sure others were as well. At that time no-one knew how much to do, what the effects were etc.

Now we know increased blood count + diuretics = high risk of clots

jus' guessin

In the early years of BBng the "secrets" were the designer roids coming out of labs. Someone would get hold of something special from Eastern Europe and then in the following year everyone would have it...but now with all the info on steroids and their availability the edge for competitors is back to diet, training, rest, and what they do in that final week for contest preparation.

The playing field is even now re: gear use and I think that is a positive result :pfft: (pun intended)

[v-rod]

I wasn't saying he should f*ck himself up by talking lol. Just meant that its naive to think that waiting is best if u want to get to the top. And who would believe a shit yarn like that even if it is from D Yates

It's much more beneficial to start at 19 than wait till 23. That's 4 years of assisted growth you'll have over the other person. Disregarding genetics and the other factors that differ person to person then the person who started at 19 has a huge advantage over the person who started at 23. 99.9% of ppl who want to be mr Olympia and are natural at 23 fools.

It's just not gonna happen lol.

and at what age did you start and did you get good advice before you tried it tomsammce

[I Declare War]

I wasn't saying he should f*ck himself up by talking lol. Just meant that its naive to think that waiting is best if u want to get to the top. And who would believe a shit yarn like that even if it is from D Yates

It's much more beneficial to start at 19 than wait till 23. That's 4 years of assisted growth you'll have over the other person. Disregarding genetics and the other factors that differ person to person then the person who started at 19 has a huge advantage over the person who started at 23. 99.9% of ppl who want to be mr Olympia and are natural at 23 fools.

It's just not gonna happen lol.

and at what age did you start and did you get good advice before you tried it tomsammce

lol he is banned ... I don't think he'll be answering any time soon. I think he started at around 19 tho... but it didn't really help him?! (my guess).

From my experience it doesn't really matter what age you start at. You just need a few years of solid training under your belt and to be consistent in the gym and know how to eat (a lot!). Without that, you're setting yourself up for failure. You need a foundation. You can start before you get a foundation but I reckon you will sell yourself short for a number of years. But, in saying that....

Good advice is crucial. For example, I believe, that if a top level pro were to closely mentor and train a guy with great potential right from day 1... then within a year that newbie could be winning shows. So, really... it doesn't matter too much at what age you start... as long as you've got the guidance, genetics, gear, and accept the risks then go for it! (not saying anyone should use gear tho!!)