Twang!

[mrgeeky]

Been struggling with light weights for the last year due to a sore shoulder.

Had an MRI and found a rotator cuff tendon was nearly torn off the bone.

Hanging on by aprox 10%. Its nearly a full thickness tear!

The shoulder surgeon said I should stop weight lifting..

I did for a few months waiting for the op. But Im over it.. I need to train.

So Im back training weights..

I started off light but am slowly creeping up in weights.. Nothing heavy yet but I must admit Im a little worried..

Am I going to hear a sound like a violin string snapping? Twang!

Has anyone been in this situation before? Did you train right up until your op??

[nate225]

That shit ain't ever going to get better without surgery - pretty stock standard for rotator injury. So not training is a waste of time. If it goes it goes and you probably wouldn't notice it tbh. It aint gonna make a tearing noise like a patella tendon or roll up ur arm like a distal bicep tendon tear.

I suggest you push for surgery and rehab it asap....just my 10 cents tho.

[mrgeeky]

That shit ain't ever going to get better without surgery - pretty stock standard for rotator injury. So not training is a waste of time. If it goes it goes and you probably wouldn't notice it tbh. It aint gonna make a tearing noise like a patella tendon or roll up ur arm like a distal bicep tendon tear.

I suggest you push for surgery and rehab it asap....just my 10 cents tho.

Twang! - Just joking..

Yep pushing for surgery a.s.a.p.

And yes, its not going to heal by its self..

Problem though is if it does tear off the bone and they take months to get the surgery done as they do, then the repair will be half assed. After a few months they cant attach it to the same point it came from as the tendon will have shrunk some what. Therefore you lose some use of that arm.

That's what worries me.. So not training is by far the safest bet.

If it tears off the bone it will be 18k to get it fixed in a hurry which I don't have to spare or wait it out which wont be a good outcome as you get tendon shrinkage..

So what to do? Stop training altogether? Keep it damn light?

I guess I'm wondering how far I can push the weights before Im looking at it possibly coming off..

Maybe I should be asking, which exercises should I stay well away from???

Im not benching but I am doing chest - cable flyes, and some stack weight bench press. Also some decline bench press - smith machine.

I'm doing shrugs, and all back exercises.

I have been avoiding shoulders but am thinking of adding light lateral raises..

Been avoiding training arms due to shoulder hurting but I have started adding tri and bi stuff.. Shoulder hurts like hell but Im training through it..

Obviously still training legs and middrift..

Any thoughts, what should I be avoiding all together???

[Chemo]

It aint gonna make a tearing noise like a patella tendon or roll up ur arm like a distal bicep tendon tear.

Just made me shiver :pfft:

[Pseudonym]

Personally, if training meant I risked stuffing up the shoulder for good, I wouldn't be training. This is a long-term game, remember. An extra few months training now is not worth a lifetime of dodgy shoulder.

That said, if you ARE going to train, I'd avoid stretchy chest exercises - flyes, etc. I'm no expert, but that seems like the riskiest of the lot.

[mrgeeky]

Personally, if training meant I risked stuffing up the shoulder for good, I wouldn't be training. This is a long-term game, remember. An extra few months training now is not worth a lifetime of dodgy shoulder.

That said, if you ARE going to train, I'd avoid stretchy chest exercises - flyes, etc. I'm no expert, but that seems like the riskiest of the lot.

Yeah I think anything overhead is out..

Should be real careful of chest.

Not sure about back stuff.. Whether to go hard or not. But I am, hope Im not being silly.

This is where I wish I had of done a P.T. course and learnt all about human mechanics.

It's a hard call..

Been turned down for ACC

Just waiting to get turned down by my health insurer.

Then on to the public health waiting list..

I can see it being up to a year or so through the public health system before I get the op done.. We all know how slow the public health system can be.

Its already been over a year since I the tear happened.

So there's probably a couple of years gone by before even having the op.

Then up to a couple of years for it to come completey right.

I love boxing too. With my sore right shoulder I was throwing some hard rips in to the bag just using my left and felt something go wrong in there too..

Gee if that needs an op as well? How longs that all going to take before I can train again properly?

Some times you just cant win!

Kinda feeling a little negative I guess. So that's why I want to carry on training. I just cant handle years of down time. So Im going to keep training but just not push the areas I think might tear it right off the bone..

You can do me a favour though and keep your fingers crossed for me.

Oh and toes too.. lol

[Leeroid]

Can you tell us how it came to be so bad?

Did you do any sort of rotator cuff strengthening exercises on a regular basis? Any stretching?

Were there any warning signs, ie pain or discomfort that you ignored?

Thanks

[maccaz]

I love boxing too. With my sore right shoulder I was throwing some hard rips in to the bag just using my left and felt something go wrong in there too..

nothing fucks my shoulders more than drilling heaps of body rips, way worse than bench or shoulder pressing or anything weights related tbh!

boxing was a recipe for constant shoulder injuries for me

[mrgeeky]

Can you tell us how it came to be so bad?

Did you do any sort of rotator cuff strengthening exercises on a regular basis? Any stretching?

Were there any warning signs, ie pain or discomfort that you ignored?

Thanks

Its actually quite a long story..

I'll try to cut to the chase though..

I suffered from impingement issues my whole life.. I would bulk up, start to put some reasonable size on and bam, impingement would kick in..

I would have to train only back and legs or just stop training altogether some times for a year or two until the shoulder settled down and I could go back to training..

Then at some stage training in BJJ, some one put an arm bar on to hard and tore the left side.. I had an acromioplasty and a repair on the left..

I had already had acromioplasty on the right to stop any further impingement.

Once they were all healed I thought I was safe to go.. But nah, impingement kept kicking in.. Then I got a small tear in my right shoulder but ignored it and carried on training when the pain would allow. About a year ago I was doing incline dumbbell presses and felt a sharp pain and new I had torn it worse.

What caused the impingement?

I'm guessing a few things..

In my youth I carried a pack load of traps and deer up and down hills for many years.. Well in to my late 20s..

1st, I'm guessing the straps on the pack were cutting in to my shoulders and suppressed blood supply to the shoulder area.. I'm wondering if that in some way contributed to my issues..

2nd, Also I have no idea how true this is, but one of the surgeons that operated said my shoulder bones were the largest he had seen on any one he had operated on.. IF, IF, that were true then maybe that's a contributing factor to impingement???? Maybe the years of stress on the shoulders from carrying packs all day long build up the bones in the shoulder area and they become to big????? I dunno.. just guessing..

3rd, Bad technique possibly. I should have adjusted my technique drastically due to all the issues I was having.. ie: Bench press.. I should have stopped bringing the bar right down to the chest and instead stopped a few inches off the chest! A guy who did an ultrasound on one of my shoulders said that the number one cause of torn rotator cuffs was bringing the shoulders / arms back to far when benching or doing chest shoulder exercises..

Not saying how true it is, just saying that's what he said..

Another example is incline dumbbell flyes - Doing them with the palms facing inwards apparently takes a lot of stress off the rotator cuffs..

Not raising the arms above the shoulders when doing lateral raises, etc etc.

Sorry if that got a bit long winded.. :-)

[mrgeeky]

I love boxing too. With my sore right shoulder I was throwing some hard rips in to the bag just using my left and felt something go wrong in there too..

nothing fucks my shoulders more than drilling heaps of body rips, way worse than bench or shoulder pressing or anything weights related tbh!

boxing was a recipe for constant shoulder injuries for me

I think for younger guys its not so bad.. As we age (Im 51) they reckon the blood supply to the rotator cuffs starts to wane some what..

If we keep trying to do what we were doing when we were in our youth then yep, its a recipe for disaster..

But I love boxing. My rotator cuff tendon's going to have to tear right off the bone before I'll stop.. Its my main form of cardio.. I spend up to an hour a day on the bag 5 to 6 days a week. Although I do admit, I back off quite a lot these days.. Im scared to go hammer and tongs too much..

Especially with this rotator cuff tear..

Getting old sux!

[mrgeeky]

Can you tell us how it came to be so bad?

Did you do any sort of rotator cuff strengthening exercises on a regular basis? Any stretching?

Were there any warning signs, ie pain or discomfort that you ignored?

Thanks

Sorry I'm not sure I answered your questions properly..

Nope never really done rotator cuff exercises.. I tried to on and off, but found they chewed in to to much training time and were just boring.. I cant see the sense of doing exercises that aren't to failure..

Maybe that was part of my down fall??

Also, yes there were some warning signs.. Pain which I ignored..

Last tear I had a cortisone injection, a couple of days previously and as soon as the pain subsided and I started pushing weights again but was too thick to go light.. Cortizone injects s are a bit dangerous that way..

They shouldn't be given to dumb people..

[mrgeeky]

Just spoke to surgeon..

6 weeks in a sling and then 6 months before any lifting of any sort can be attempted!

Any one got a rope or a gun they can loan me? :cry:

[justhell]

Bugger mrgeeky,

dam injurys suck,sounds like it would be best to rest up for the 6 months or so,and hopefully the testosterone might help to repair things?

Good luck with your recovery man & hope all gets sorted.

:wink:

[mrgeeky]

Bugger mrgeeky,

dam injurys suck,sounds like it would be best to rest up for the 6 months or so,and hopefully the testosterone might help to repair things?

Good luck with your recovery man & hope all gets sorted.

:wink:

cheers for the sympathy man...

Looks like the op is set for June!

Im seriously not looking forward to this.. Months of inactivity is going to kill me! Guess I better go buy a new TV.. :-(

[maccaz]

Bugger mrgeeky,

dam injurys suck,sounds like it would be best to rest up for the 6 months or so,and hopefully the testosterone might help to repair things?

Good luck with your recovery man & hope all gets sorted.

:wink:

cheers for the sympathy man...

Looks like the op is set for June!

Im seriously not looking forward to this.. Months of inactivity is going to kill me! Guess I better go buy a new TV.. :-(

could always become leg press/leg extension/hamstring curl specialist for 6 months :pfft: , cant imagine theyd bother your shoulder

[mrgeeky]

Bugger mrgeeky,

dam injurys suck,sounds like it would be best to rest up for the 6 months or so,and hopefully the testosterone might help to repair things?

Good luck with your recovery man & hope all gets sorted.

:wink:

cheers for the sympathy man...

Looks like the op is set for June!

Im seriously not looking forward to this.. Months of inactivity is going to kill me! Guess I better go buy a new TV.. :-(

could always become leg press/leg extension/hamstring curl specialist for 6 months :pfft: , cant imagine theyd bother your shoulder

I was wondering about that.. Nurse said no weights, no stress on body for 1st 6 months.. I assumed she meant any weights..

If legs are allowed, yeehaaaaaaaaa, I'll be happy man...

cheers maccaz

[mrgeeky]

something else that might be worth noting for you guys..

When I went to the Arthrogram done on my shoulder so that they could inject the cortisone in to the correct place.. I told the dick head that was doing the arthogram that I didn't want the injection right in to or to close to the sheath of the tendon..

It can weaken the tendon and cause it to tear..

I watched on the video as he put the inject in and that's exactly where it looked like it went.. When I queried him on this he said too much was made of the b.s surrounding the theory that cortisone will weaken tendons..

Next training session it tore.

A read on it!

------------------

"The Merck Manuals Online Medical Library says that cortisone injections near a muscle's tendon may increase the risk of rupture of that tendon. Therefore, it advises patients to abstain from heavy muscular exertion for one or two days after the cortisone injection. The Merck Manuals Online Medical Library also notes that tendon weakening is more likely if the doctor injects the cortisone very close to, or inadvertently inside, the tendon's covering sheath. Thinning of the joint's cartilage is another potential side effect. Because of this hazard, clinicians advise their patients not to have more than four cortisone injections per joint. Some other potential local complications include nerve damage and excessive whitening of the skin at the injection site"

[mrgeeky]

just an update.. surgeon wanted me to have the op straight away.. I decided not to and carried on training.. Well here I am still training.. Apparently my rotator cuff tendon is only holding on by 10% ... But my shoulder now feels like a million dollars.. No pain at all.. Im still boxing and still pushing weights..  I had more or less a year off and with spasmodic training inbetween..  Well now Im back in to it better than ever.. Weights keep climbing..   Im now at the limit of the stack weight machine for benching.. Have added 4 add on plates and a 20kg plate and have run out of room to add anything.. So Im going to have to start back on barbell bench press.. Scares me a little as going to deep with the barbell screws my shoulders up...  Will have to be careful...

Decline bench Im repping out 45kg a side... Not a lot by a lot of your guys standards but thats really great for me... Been years since I have been able to do anything like this..

So Im on fire... Training up a storm and loving it.. And the shoulder just keeps on hanging on lol  Glad I didnt jump in and do the op.. Surgeons are so quick to operate..  My advice to anyone else in the same boat. Dont do the op unless you have no way around it..  Cant help but wonder what sort of weights Im going to get up to before it finally lets go.. Or if it will. .... In the mean time I'm still doing it and loving it.. :-)

And that folks is my update...

[Pseudonym]

But my shoulder now feels like a million dollars.. No pain at all..

So it's improved by itself? That's great news. What do you put this down to?

[jimmybro1]

Your history on your shoulder is really unfortuate. 

I don't know if I would be training if only 10% is hanging on......

[mrgeeky]

But my shoulder now feels like a million dollars.. No pain at all..

So it's improved by itself? That's great news. What do you put this down to?

sorry mate, only just come across thispost of yours...  

Im putting it down to resting it and settling down of inflammation. And now that im training I have been staying away from any lifts above shoulder height. No over head presses, no incline skull crushes, no incline bench press etc.

I am being careful not to do anything that I think may reinjure it.. Im restricted in a lot of the stuff i do but what I can do Im getting stronger and stronger at..   

Due to shoulder injuries my whole life I have never been able to lift very heavy..  Im wondering how much training very hard, ie: super setc, drop setc, etc etc whilst living a stupid protein restricted diet has contributed to all my injuries over the years?

Now that Im  watching my diet and protein intake Im pushing heavy weights than I have ever done before even in my youth.  its amazing...  The tear is still there but theres no pain. at some point I must get to a point where I go too heavy and tear it right off. I'll cross that bridge when i come to it, but for now, Im loving the training..

[mrgeeky]

Your history on your shoulder is really unfortuate. 

I don't know if I would be training if only 10% is hanging on......

Whats the alternative?

Dont really have a choice...  :-(