Levrone vs Heath

[Terrymundo]

I reckon the competition isn't as intense as it used to be and the athletes arn't pushing their bodys as hard. I reckon it would be easier to win now then when dorian yates was king. Even Levrone said so himself.

[I Declare War]

I reckon the competition isn't as intense as it used to be and the athletes arn't pushing their bodys as hard. I reckon it would be easier to win now then when dorian yates was king. Even Levrone said so himself.

I'd have to disagree. Branch Warren, Denis Wolf, and Kai Greene are good examples of fellas up at the limiter. Maybe not so much Denis and Kai... still, they train really hard. Kai inclines 5 plates!

[trainlikeafreak]

Insulin abuse bro. Not sure if you've read up on gh15's thoughts... but he sums it up quite well. gh15.org

its not because of insulin abuse lol how can u even say that..

is gh15 even legit? who knows could be some random.

I reckon it is. It creates big soft muscles, fat on the inside. The current Mr NZ has the look too.

I reckon he's legit. I think he's Nasser El Sonbaty. But, no-one knows for sure.

lol. if you have fat on the inside then ur not going to be diced like dorian now are you.

[I Declare War]

its not because of insulin abuse lol how can u even say that..

is gh15 even legit? who knows could be some random.

I reckon it is. It creates big soft muscles, fat on the inside. The current Mr NZ has the look too.

I reckon he's legit. I think he's Nasser El Sonbaty. But, no-one knows for sure.

lol. if you have fat on the inside then ur not going to be diced like dorian now are you.

Exactly case in point, Dorian had a good foundation and trained hard and heavy, he didn't use slin to blow up from no foundation. He used it on an already built foundation and trained hard and heavy even after he started with it.

Phil Heath on the other hand, he doesn't train really hard and heavy. He uses the drugs to get the size without the hard training that's required to get that dense hard and grainy conditioning that Dorian had. He has good proportions and a great response to pump workouts and drugs. That's why he looks soft.

[trainlikeafreak]

I reckon it is. It creates big soft muscles, fat on the inside. The current Mr NZ has the look too.

I reckon he's legit. I think he's Nasser El Sonbaty. But, no-one knows for sure.

lol. if you have fat on the inside then ur not going to be diced like dorian now are you.

Exactly case in point, Dorian had a good foundation and trained hard and heavy, he didn't use slin to blow up from no foundation. He used it on an already built foundation and trained hard and heavy even after he started with it.

Phil Heath on the other hand, he doesn't train really hard and heavy. He uses the drugs to get the size without the hard training that's required to get that dense hard and grainy conditioning that Dorian had. He has good proportions and a great response to pump workouts and drugs. That's why he looks soft.

oh sorry i thought u were saying back in the day they abused it and thats why they were in better shape.

DY worked his ass off yes everybody knows that but i dont think u can win 2x mr olympias and train like a pussy.

u cant just blame drugs or rely on drugs to get to that level.

[I Declare War]

lol. if you have fat on the inside then ur not going to be diced like dorian now are you.

Exactly case in point, Dorian had a good foundation and trained hard and heavy, he didn't use slin to blow up from no foundation. He used it on an already built foundation and trained hard and heavy even after he started with it.

Phil Heath on the other hand, he doesn't train really hard and heavy. He uses the drugs to get the size without the hard training that's required to get that dense hard and grainy conditioning that Dorian had. He has good proportions and a great response to pump workouts and drugs. That's why he looks soft.

oh sorry i thought u were saying back in the day they abused it and thats why they were in better shape.

DY worked his ass off yes everybody knows that but i dont think u can win 2x mr olympias and train like a pussy.

u cant just blame drugs or rely on drugs to get to that level.

Phil trains fucking smart mate, he's in it for longevity. There's nothing really wrong with what he's doing.

It's just that when you compare what you're seeing on stage with him to what was on stage with Dorian, there's that element of hard dense conditioning that's missing. Branch has that conditioning if he nails prep though, but he's not really aesthetic enough (or role model material) to be a Mr O IMO

[Terrymundo]

I reckon the competition isn't as intense as it used to be and the athletes arn't pushing their bodys as hard. I reckon it would be easier to win now then when dorian yates was king. Even Levrone said so himself.

I'd have to disagree. Branch Warren, Denis Wolf, and Kai Greene are good examples of fellas up at the limiter. Maybe not so much Denis and Kai... still, they train really hard. Kai inclines 5 plates!

I would never use anything that occurs in the gym as a testament to how hard people are pushing themselves. What you do in the gym is the easiest part of what we and the pros do. tough workout are almost fun :twisted: but its intense dieting, the extensive drug programmes and cardioing when you barely have enough energy to breathe that is seperating todays pros from a decade ago. Insulin has been around for yonks. Its not the tools that have changed but the mindsets of those playing the game today.

What tells me this the experession of the pros on stage today. they almost look like theyre healthy and happy to be there. Looking back to golden age all the contestants look like they have one eye looking back behind stage like "f*ck me, when will this be over?"

[I Declare War]

I reckon the competition isn't as intense as it used to be and the athletes arn't pushing their bodys as hard. I reckon it would be easier to win now then when dorian yates was king. Even Levrone said so himself.

I'd have to disagree. Branch Warren, Denis Wolf, and Kai Greene are good examples of fellas up at the limiter. Maybe not so much Denis and Kai... still, they train really hard. Kai inclines 5 plates!

I would never use anything that occurs in the gym as a testament to how hard people are pushing themselves. What you do in the gym is the easiest part of what we and the pros do. tough workout are almost fun :twisted: but its intense dieting, the extensive drug programmes and cardioing when you barely have enough energy to breathe that is seperating todays pros from a decade ago. Insulin has been around for yonks. Its not the tools that have changed but the mindsets of those playing the game today.

What tells me this the experession of the pros on stage today. they almost look like theyre healthy and happy to be there. Looking back to golden age all the contestants look like they have one eye looking back behind stage like "f*ck me, when will this be over?"

You make good points. But I'd have to disagree with you regarding Insulin. Dorian's last couple of years at the O and from where Ronnie took over... that was the era that insulin abuse really took off. That's where you get the Markus Ruhl's and all that. Bodybuilding went to shit from about 1995 onwards IMO

The big mass monster fellas are using 100+ IU of slin or more a day. Really unhealthy.

In the golden age, they all knew Arnie was going to win and just wanted to go home lol

[trainlikeafreak]

i think its unfair to say the pros today dont work as hard as they did back then.. i dont think anyone can match DY for conditioning when taking his size into account. branch gets just as/if not more shredded than most of the pros from the 90's. not the prettiest but if talking about condition he fits in fine.

i actually think a lot of those guys look better or more aesthetic because they didnt carry as much muscle mass therefore didnt sacrifice their shape for size. most of the top pros today still get shredded to bits and have striations everywhere

[I Declare War]

i think its unfair to say the pros today dont work as hard as they did back then.. i dont think anyone can match DY for conditioning when taking his size into account. branch gets just as/if not more shredded than most of the pros from the 90's. not the prettiest but if talking about condition he fits in fine.

i actually think a lot of those guys look better or more aesthetic because they didnt carry as much muscle mass therefore didnt sacrifice their shape for size. most of the top pros today still get shredded to bits and have striations everywhere

Yeah that's why I brought up Branch. He's like a current day DY (although his form in training is a bit off, but I guess it works for him when he's not tearing things).

I agree with you too on some pros looking more aesthetic these days. Not all of them tho. Evan Centopani is a good example of an aesthetic modern day bber.

[trainlikeafreak]

i think its unfair to say the pros today dont work as hard as they did back then.. i dont think anyone can match DY for conditioning when taking his size into account. branch gets just as/if not more shredded than most of the pros from the 90's. not the prettiest but if talking about condition he fits in fine.

i actually think a lot of those guys look better or more aesthetic because they didnt carry as much muscle mass therefore didnt sacrifice their shape for size. most of the top pros today still get shredded to bits and have striations everywhere

Yeah that's why I brought up Branch. He's like a current day DY (although his form in training is a bit off, but I guess it works for him when he's not tearing things).

I agree with you too on some pros looking more aesthetic these days. Not all of them tho. Evan Centopani is a good example of an aesthetic modern day bber.

no i said the guys in the 90s were more aesthetic.

im a big fan of evan but he is not aesthetic lol.. aesthetic is about balance, symetry etc.. evan has too many weak points atm to be aesthetic.. dexter jackson and phil heath are aesthetic..

[I Declare War]

i think its unfair to say the pros today dont work as hard as they did back then.. i dont think anyone can match DY for conditioning when taking his size into account. branch gets just as/if not more shredded than most of the pros from the 90's. not the prettiest but if talking about condition he fits in fine.

i actually think a lot of those guys look better or more aesthetic because they didnt carry as much muscle mass therefore didnt sacrifice their shape for size. most of the top pros today still get shredded to bits and have striations everywhere

Yeah that's why I brought up Branch. He's like a current day DY (although his form in training is a bit off, but I guess it works for him when he's not tearing things).

I agree with you too on some pros looking more aesthetic these days. Not all of them tho. Evan Centopani is a good example of an aesthetic modern day bber.

no i said the guys in the 90s were more aesthetic.

im a big fan of evan but he is not aesthetic lol.. aesthetic is about balance, symetry etc.. evan has too many weak points atm to be aesthetic.. dexter jackson and phil heath are aesthetic..

oh lol yea some form the 90s were more aesthetic. Have you seen some pics of Shawn Ray? He was awesome earlier on.

I just sort of pulled Evan from the top of my head, but you're right with Dexter and Phil in a way, they are more "aesthetic" in the sense that they have good symmetry in their muscles. IMO they'd look better 5-10kg lighter on stage tho... but that's just personal opinion as well. Most bb fans like the bbers to be the biggest freaks possible it seems.

[trainlikeafreak]

Yeah that's why I brought up Branch. He's like a current day DY (although his form in training is a bit off, but I guess it works for him when he's not tearing things).

I agree with you too on some pros looking more aesthetic these days. Not all of them tho. Evan Centopani is a good example of an aesthetic modern day bber.

no i said the guys in the 90s were more aesthetic.

im a big fan of evan but he is not aesthetic lol.. aesthetic is about balance, symetry etc.. evan has too many weak points atm to be aesthetic.. dexter jackson and phil heath are aesthetic..

oh lol yea some form the 90s were more aesthetic. Have you seen some pics of Shawn Ray? He was awesome earlier on.

I just sort of pulled Evan from the top of my head, but you're right with Dexter and Phil in a way, they are more "aesthetic" in the sense that they have good symmetry in their muscles. IMO they'd look better 5-10kg lighter on stage tho... but that's just personal opinion as well. Most bb fans like the bbers to be the biggest freaks possible it seems.

doesnt get much more aesthetic than this man

and yep was refering to shawn, kevin etc re the 90's

[I Declare War]

f*ck yea Dexter's a ninja turtle. These days, the more you look like a cartoon character... the better you do in bodybuilding competitions. It's just a natural progression I suppose.

[Riccardo]

Lol how can you say it's because of insulin use or whatever, do you know how much slin dorian used compared to phil or what their cycles look like? I agree with the training though, I think heavier training builds a denser, grainier look.

[I Declare War]

Lol how can you say it's because of insulin use or whatever, do you know how much slin dorian used compared to phil or what their cycles look like? I agree with the training though, I think heavier training builds a denser, grainier look.

lol they could both be using the same, it doesn't matter at all who is using more or less - they both were\are insulin abusers... you can't deny that. Insulin gives you big soft muscles, and more-so if you don't train really hard and heavy.

[trainlikeafreak]

Lol how can you say it's because of insulin use or whatever, do you know how much slin dorian used compared to phil or what their cycles look like? I agree with the training though, I think heavier training builds a denser, grainier look.

lol they could both be using the same, it doesn't matter at all who is using more or less - they both were\are insulin abusers... you can't deny that. Insulin gives you big soft muscles, and more-so if you don't train really hard and heavy.

yesterday you said the reason for the BBers in the 90s having better conditioning was because the BBers today are insulin abusers... DY is from the 90s and prob has the best conditioning of all time..

[I Declare War]

Lol how can you say it's because of insulin use or whatever, do you know how much slin dorian used compared to phil or what their cycles look like? I agree with the training though, I think heavier training builds a denser, grainier look.

lol they could both be using the same, it doesn't matter at all who is using more or less - they both were\are insulin abusers... you can't deny that. Insulin gives you big soft muscles, and more-so if you don't train really hard and heavy.

yesterday you said the reason for the BBers in the 90s having better conditioning was because the BBers today are insulin abusers... DY is from the 90s and prob has the best conditioning of all time..

I maybe wasn't clear enough.. if you look at how Dorian blew up in his last olympias, and the size he got to in blood and guts... you can see he was one of the pioneers who took drug use in pro bodybuilding to the next level. Around mid 90's is when Insulin use turned to abuse all through pro bbing.

[trainlikeafreak]

do you have proof for knowing dorians stack? for all u know it was half the size as urs.. nobody knows what they do im sure there will be some who use truck loads and some who use a lot less..

[I Declare War]

do you have proof for knowing dorians stack? for all u know it was half the size as urs.. nobody knows what they do im sure there will be some who use truck loads and some who use a lot less..

No proof what his stack was. At times he'd have been cruising, quite possibly on much less than my stack. Who knows though?

I have been reading up on advanced stacks, big guys at 7 percent bf or less. And there's a common thread:

Upwards of 15 IU HGH per day, some up to 40 IU per day

Upwards of 100 IU Insulin when bulking, some up to 200 IU per day.

AAS 2-3 grams per week. Testosterone 1-2g per week when using HGH

It's common knowledge if you dig deep enough...

Read this too, especially gh15's posts... http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393885.0

[trainlikeafreak]

do you have proof for knowing dorians stack? for all u know it was half the size as urs.. nobody knows what they do im sure there will be some who use truck loads and some who use a lot less..

No proof what his stack was. At times he'd have been cruising, quite possibly on much less than my stack. Who knows though?

I have been reading up on advanced stacks, big guys at 7 percent bf or less. And there's a common thread:

Upwards of 15 IU HGH per day, some up to 40 IU per day

Upwards of 100 IU Insulin when bulking, some up to 200 IU per day.

AAS 2-3 grams per week. Testosterone 1-2g per week when using HGH

It's common knowledge if you dig deep enough...

Read this too, especially gh15's posts... http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393885.0

i think ur getting carried away these guys arnt who they are because of the amount of shit they take im sure theres a lot who take the same and/or more mgs.. if it came down to the mgs there would be a lot more pros going around.. end of the day they are where they are cause they work their ass off consistantly and devote their life to their sport for 10/15/20 years...

[I Declare War]

do you have proof for knowing dorians stack? for all u know it was half the size as urs.. nobody knows what they do im sure there will be some who use truck loads and some who use a lot less..

No proof what his stack was. At times he'd have been cruising, quite possibly on much less than my stack. Who knows though?

I have been reading up on advanced stacks, big guys at 7 percent bf or less. And there's a common thread:

Upwards of 15 IU HGH per day, some up to 40 IU per day

Upwards of 100 IU Insulin when bulking, some up to 200 IU per day.

AAS 2-3 grams per week. Testosterone 1-2g per week when using HGH

It's common knowledge if you dig deep enough...

Read this too, especially gh15's posts... http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393885.0

i think ur getting carried away these guys arnt who they are because of the amount of shit they take im sure theres a lot who take the same and/or more mgs.. if it came down to the mgs there would be a lot more pros going around.. end of the day they are where they are cause they work their ass off consistantly and devote their life to their sport for 10/15/20 years...

you say you want to be a top-tier pro like them? when you get there, please report your dosages bro.

It'll be along the lines of what I've outlined up there.

[trainlikeafreak]

No proof what his stack was. At times he'd have been cruising, quite possibly on much less than my stack. Who knows though?

I have been reading up on advanced stacks, big guys at 7 percent bf or less. And there's a common thread:

Upwards of 15 IU HGH per day, some up to 40 IU per day

Upwards of 100 IU Insulin when bulking, some up to 200 IU per day.

AAS 2-3 grams per week. Testosterone 1-2g per week when using HGH

It's common knowledge if you dig deep enough...

Read this too, especially gh15's posts... http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393885.0

i think ur getting carried away these guys arnt who they are because of the amount of shit they take im sure theres a lot who take the same and/or more mgs.. if it came down to the mgs there would be a lot more pros going around.. end of the day they are where they are cause they work their ass off consistantly and devote their life to their sport for 10/15/20 years...

you say you want to be a top-tier pro like them? when you get there, please report your dosages bro.

It'll be along the lines of what I've outlined up there.

im not saying pros dont use lots im just saying not every pro abuses the f*ck out of it. pretty sure there would be a lot more deaths if they all did

[I Declare War]

i think ur getting carried away these guys arnt who they are because of the amount of shit they take im sure theres a lot who take the same and/or more mgs.. if it came down to the mgs there would be a lot more pros going around.. end of the day they are where they are cause they work their ass off consistantly and devote their life to their sport for 10/15/20 years...

you say you want to be a top-tier pro like them? when you get there, please report your dosages bro.

It'll be along the lines of what I've outlined up there.

im not saying pros dont use lots im just saying not every pro abuses the f*ck out of it. pretty sure there would be a lot more deaths if they all did

I'm only talking about the freaks.. Tom Priest, Markus Ruhl, Ronnie Coleman, Branch Warren. They've got that all out mentality, they wouldn't dare use less than their competition... so they use the most they can. Spend years figuring out how much they can tolerate and push the envelope.