Locking out

[Dr Squat]

There has been a bit of comment (interest) in the method of not locking out certain movements in training. I'm referring to movements such as shoulder press, bench press, close grip, incline press etc. The basic premise is that you achieve a full stretch at the "bottom" of the movement and then complete each rep short of lockout. I'm not talking about a quarter rep but keeping the tension on the muscle by stopping short of lockout and then repeating. This allows you to keep continuous tension on the muscle. It also allows you to use more weight, eventually once you have the technique sorted.

It is probably more of a bodybuilding method. Branch Warren trains like this. The argument from powerlifters is that you are not locking out. I counter this by saying that these movements are assistance movements. Training the powerlifts specifically should be treated differently. I personally have had huge gains and this is because I have targeted weaks points in the same way a bodybuilder would.

I am interested in other views here.

[trainlikeafreak]

not really answering question here but i read an article on Branch the other day about training in this style...he said he used to be a PL and used to lock out on everything. but he got some bad tendon etc injuries esp in the elbows and delts..not to mention the tricep injuries he had.. anyway he said once he started stopping his reps just short of lockout all the pain was releived and hasnt had an injury since (related to these movements).

[Riccardo]

Like you said I believe it has some merit as an assistance technique but for example using this technique on a bench press you are missing out an important part of the lift, the triceps. The purpose of the bench press in my eyes is to develop the pressing musculature; chest, delts, triceps etc. If stimulating the chest is your goal I would rather use an exercise like dumb bell flyes on a low incline.

I dunno to what extent not locking out would translate to increased strength gains It would definitely have to be an assistance exercise for power lifters as your not training that transition into the lockout, a sticking point for a lot of lifters. For both strength and hypertrophy I believe working the muscle through its full range of motion is important and when not locking out you would have to be careful to not limit the range of motion so much that you are compromising the benefits from working the muscle through this ROM. Otherwise isometric contractions would be just as good (maybe they are and we all need to be doing some :pfft: ). Obviously most people don't completely lock out anyway during a top set as a full proper lockout for 10+ reps can be hard on your joints and tendons.

By not taking tension off the muscle and stopping the movement short of lockout you would definitely induce more gains through vascular occlusion and extended tension on the muscle but you would have to investigate to what extent this would be mitigated by not being able to use as much weight because keeping constant tension on your muscle is fatiguing and I would imagine you wouldn't be able to use the same amount of weight for the same amount of reps. For this reason I would advocate partials as an assistance exercise as opposed to a way to do every single rep.

[BeastBuilder]

Personally I find not locking out on those kinds of movement awesome. Once you sort the technique and your muscle gets used to it you end up using more weight and getting bigger (obviously :roll: ).

I could imagine I would have a lot more joint problems if I locked out on every exercise.

From a powerlifting perspective I don't think my lock out has suffered as a result of this, I mean my sticking point is that transition to locking out but it always has been even when I was locking out all the time, and I'm benching a lot more now. And besides, your Triceps are still getting a mad workout through the rest of the movement, it's not as clear cut as rookies think it is (chest and shoulders then triceps) all the muscles are being used together the whole way, just some to a more extent at certain parts of the movement, if you think otherwise well.. you should probly find a new hobby

Plus my Tris are growing and getting stronger and strong enough for lock out from all the Narrow Grip, Extensions etc we do for Tris.

Not bragging or anything (well maybe a little :wink: ) but since Nationals I have put on 7-8kg and guess what, I have been training like this for the past 4 weeks so I guess it must work just a little don't you think ? :pfft:

[Riccardo]

So have you switched to doing every rep without a lockout now? It would be interesting to see if this type of training would suffer from diminishing returns. As a powerlifter you aren't training muscles but instead training a movement and in order to make sure the proper motor patterns are developed and maintained (eg transition into the lockout) full lifts at some stage have to be completed.

Training components of a lift definitely has merit, I mean just look at the success of westside conjugate periodization but going back to the diminishing returns thing, there are only so many goodmornings you can do untill your squat no longer improves and your just getting good at doing GMs. Obviously in westside the programming is such that assistance work is rotated so I wonder if the same thing needs to happen with partials? Thinking about it I would say maybe so. Therefore I wonder if this is a feasible way of training long term for powerlifters on every rep? Or if it should be more of an assistance type of thing like the doc says?

I've always trained without a proper lockout on most my lifts but I wonder If I'm doing myself a disservice?

[BeastBuilder]

I was training like this to an extent last time I did 5/3/1 eg not locking out my bench fully when I was doing 10+ reps. And then for a few weeks before my comp prep for Nats I did train like this a wee bit on some exercises eg 10x10 on Narrow Grip, Shoulder Press etc. But training with Doc and the boys now this is the first time I am doing it on the majority of my accessory movements and I'm not going to lie I'm bigger and feeling stronger than before.

I think the limiting factor on most people being able to train like this or use a heavier weight for reps is tightness. I'm not going to lie, it ain't easy staying tight on a Front Press for 8-10 reps or on a Narrow Grip Bench for the same and not getting a rest by locking out or even using a heavier weight than you are used to. Holding your breath the whole time is usually the way to go, I know it sounds bad but it keeps you insanely tight. I would like to see someone stay as tight locking out every rep on an Incline Bench and breathing as I can holding my breath and just repping them out.

I'm by no means a strict powerlifter, I thrive off high reps, hence why some of my 5/3/1 sets go into double digits even in the third week :oops: I believe the difference between this and traditional powerlifting would be that you would not use this technique for a max effort single, double, triple etc. It is a very useful thing to use for reps and if reps happen to be what you are doing on your main movements at the time then go for it if you can keep tight enough and it doesn't hinder your performance.

Also just to clear it up, I would hardly call these reps partials, we aren't talking absolute quarter/half reps here, I'm talking about stopping just shy of lock out on Bench movements and clearing the head on Overhead movements.

[Dr Squat]

Like you said I believe it has some merit as an assistance technique but for example using this technique on a bench press you are missing out an important part of the lift, the triceps. The purpose of the bench press in my eyes is to develop the pressing musculature; chest, delts, triceps etc. If stimulating the chest is your goal I would rather use an exercise like dumb bell flyes on a low incline.

The way I see it, there are 2 ways to lift more:

1. Become stronger

2. Become technically better at the lifts

I think these are 2 quite separate components. When I am performing assistance exercises I am indeed trying to become stronger. And this may include bench pressing. Why wouldn't I do what is likely to give me the best opportunity to become stronger? Becoming technically better at the movements is quite different.

[Riccardo]

Oh for sure. I just wondered if doing the vast majority of reps this way would hinder my technical proficiency at all? Particularly as you get stronger and you use heavier weights and your body tends to throw technique out the window. I guess what I'm asking is what sort of ratio you would use for not locking out to locking out? Or is doing all reps without a lockout all good?

@beastbuilder. Whatprograms do you favour given you are partial to a high rep sets?

[Dr Squat]

Oh for sure. I just wondered if doing the vast majority of reps this way would hinder my technical proficiency at all? Particularly as you get stronger and you use heavier weights and your body tends to throw technique out the window. I guess what I'm asking is what sort of ratio you would use for not locking out to locking out? Or is doing all reps without a lockout all good?

I think it depends on your training approach. If you follow a Westside template for benching then I would be locking out my max effort work. On the other hand, I doubt whether the tecnhique you use for your slight incline db flys will have any relevance to your bench press technique.

[Riccardo]

I think locking out would be the least of my worries if dumbell flyes were the mainstay of my chest/benchpress training :wink:

[Dr Squat]

I think locking out would be the least of my worries if dumbell flyes were the mainstay of my chest/benchpress training :wink:

Agreed champ. :nod:

[Best Bench]

Plenty to read there. The one point I wanted to mention from a powerlifting perspective was with Jackson referring to the transition being his weak point.

Cutting the reps short even if just before lockout will impact on this as you start to reduce the amount of force at transition. If this is you weak point you need to train to use speed from the bottom and get the tri's fully engaged early.

I still use this technique sparingly and usually on lighter sets to get some blood moving. Definitely not easy as I cease up once I get to much of a pump.

Much more effective than the people who only lower the bar half way!

Can you use this approach with Pulling exercises?

[BeastBuilder]

@beastbuilder. Whatprograms do you favour given you are partial to a high rep sets?

Big fan of 5/3/1, having the one set where you max out on your main movement is awesome, separates the men from the boys :pfft:

Assistance wise I don't follow anything Wendler has put out, I do high volume on this, 10x10, 5x10, 3x20 and any other rep combo you can up with that 8-10+ per set.

Check out the recent posts in my journal if you wanna see how I structure it now with the twice a day trainings.

Alf has a point, I'll have to look into working on this around comp prep times :nod:

[Dr Squat]

Can you use this approach with Pulling exercises?

The same principle applies. Effective for movements like pulldowns where the biceps tend to take over if you are to pull all the way down to the chest. The critical part of the movement IMO is the stretch at the top (in this case). I would never suggest that part of the movement is sacrificed.

Cutting the reps short even if just before lockout will impact on this as you start to reduce the amount of force at transition. If this is you weak point you need to train to use speed from the bottom and get the tri's fully engaged early.

Do you rate speed work as a means to address this? I know Tonka is a big fan.