Pec activation

[Kalidane]

As the subject implies I can't get no pec satisfaction.

I think my flat bench setup is okay as far as the scapula retraction goes - seems pretty easy to feel when that is correct.

From that point on though it ain't working out right. Wide/normal/narrow grip it's all the same apart from a little stretched feeling at the bottom with wide grip.

I suspect I 'cheat' with incline DB press and don't have the scapula squeeze happening and my flyes are just shit - has never felt like I've done it correctly.

What do you guys do for activation and mind-muscle connection with them titties?

I'm keen to have a skills session Thursday and get this working

[Shutupandsquat]

I'm probably not the best to give advice as I don't have a credible chest, but I do get great chest pumps most of the time so whatever.

Are you actually physically squeezing the muscle? Trying to tense it while you push? Maybe even trying to get your elbows back further to stretch where the chest and delts.

You could also try not locking out (if you don't already) Just push up, stop about 3 quarters of the way, and back down. Make sure that you're controlling it throughout the whole movement etc.

[BeastBuilder]

May I ask what numbers you are putting up for Bench and Incline DBs ?

Because not assuming anything but sometimes you have to have a chest before you can feel it working if you get what I mean.

So say you bench something like 60kg you likely won't feel your chest working to some extent because you have still to build up a Chest.

Usually people have this problem with muscles like Lats and Hamstrings because they can't see them working or small muscles such as Rear Delts because they aren't used to isolating them by themselves. But I don't see why someone couldn't have the same issue with Chest related exercises.

[Kalidane]

Bench session yesterday and I was generally avoiding lockout but for the right elbow feeling clicky so did one of the warmup sets to lockout.

When I was concentrating on squeezing the pecs I'm not sure I was maintaining the scapula squeeze. A bit like squats some days, it felt like a lot to think about simultaneously.

I did wonder if the lack of a chest might somehow be a factor but didn't know if that was a thing!

Pretty good guess at 60kg, I think I was just under that

The numbers yesterday were (bar weight excluded but is prolly 8kg standard):

Flat Bench

20 x Bar

12 x 20kg x2

12 x 30kg

6 x 40kg

3 x 48kg x3 Hadn't tried triples before so I had a crack at it

8 x 40kg x3

No spotter and didn't have the confidence to try for heavier or more reps but it was there

Incline Bench

12 x 20kg

8 x 30kg x2

DB Flyes

6 x 10kg x3 form sucked

Flat DB Press

10 x 10kg x4

[BeastBuilder]

Most standard bars are 20kg bro so 60kg was probably on the money haha.

Well yea, so for now just focus on getting stronger on the basics such as bench etc, no point worrying about squeezing your chest just yet, having the tight upper back and moving as much weight as possibly over the rep ranges and getting stronger is much more important at this stage.

You may not feel it working but get to be benching 100kg and I'm sure your chest will look and feel a hell of a a lot different to how it does now, then get to benching 140kg and it'll change even more etc etc.

The mind muscle connection will come with time, and once you actually have a bit of a chest then you can practice squeezing it and use very isolatory movements such as Cable Flys, DB Flys etc.

Probably applies to your whole training atm, just get stronger on big basic lifts with a few isolation exercises thrown in, stick at it for 6 months and build a big base and then you'll know what I mean about being able to feel a muscle working.

[Mcmass]

Two ways I know of to help with pec activation:

Using a resistance band behind the body/shoulder girdle, gripping ends in both hands. Squeeze arms together at shoulder height with a slight bend in arms.

Another way is to decrease your usual weights on barbell presses, then as you lift and lower the weight focus on putting pressure inwards on your grip. Not moving the hands but actively having tension inwards.

It also sounds like you may need some 1 on 1 help with form, may be worth asking a trainer for advice.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

just a little something i tried since couple weeks ago and has been helping me feel it in my chest rather than everywhere else - i do a bit of a warmup then proceed to working sets on cable flyes machine before i approach the bench press. the rep range i keep at 12~15 on this to try get maximal blood flowing in to the pecs. despite adding this exercise in before hand i found my numbers on bench are not going down at all. feeling even more powerful now probably because i may be using more of the right muscles

take it with a grain of salt though, i suspect (because of same bench numbers) that i have the same problem as you in regard to not actually having much of a chest to 'feel it in' in the first place

also if you have real long arms or thin torso (or both), be careful with bringing the bar all the way down to your chest - check the elbows and you can pretty much stop when they are slightly below parallel to keep most tension on the chest and off back/shoulders.. in my case when i brought the bar right down to my chest level my elbow instead of being parallel to floor was actually pointing directly down to the floor which helped explain some shoulder impingement issues

[BeastBuilder]

also if you have real long arms or thin torso (or both), be careful with bringing the bar all the way down to your chest - check the elbows and you can pretty much stop when they are slightly below parallel to keep most tension on the chest and off back/shoulders.. in my case when i brought the bar right down to my chest level my elbow instead of being parallel to floor was actually pointing directly down to the floor which helped explain some shoulder impingement issues

Not having a go at you personally bro but this mindset, in the world of building muscle and getting strong, is wrong..

A Bench Press touches the chest, everyone is capable of doing this, barring serious injuries limiting movement, if you get shoulder impingement when taking the bar all the way to your chest then you are doing it wrong and need to get better technique on bench and stronger shoulders.

[student]

also if you have real long arms or thin torso (or both), be careful with bringing the bar all the way down to your chest - check the elbows and you can pretty much stop when they are slightly below parallel to keep most tension on the chest and off back/shoulders.. in my case when i brought the bar right down to my chest level my elbow instead of being parallel to floor was actually pointing directly down to the floor which helped explain some shoulder impingement issues

Not having a go at you personally bro but this mindset, in the world of building muscle and getting strong, is wrong..

A Bench Press touches the chest, everyone is capable of doing this, barring serious injuries limiting movement, if you get shoulder impingement when taking the bar all the way to your chest then you are doing it wrong and need to get better technique on bench and stronger shoulders.

lol. solid bro science. how do u know that everyone is capable of doing this?

[Riccardo]

also if you have real long arms or thin torso (or both), be careful with bringing the bar all the way down to your chest - check the elbows and you can pretty much stop when they are slightly below parallel to keep most tension on the chest and off back/shoulders.. in my case when i brought the bar right down to my chest level my elbow instead of being parallel to floor was actually pointing directly down to the floor which helped explain some shoulder impingement issues

Not having a go at you personally bro but this mindset, in the world of building muscle and getting strong, is wrong..

A Bench Press touches the chest, everyone is capable of doing this, barring serious injuries limiting movement, if you get shoulder impingement when taking the bar all the way to your chest then you are doing it wrong and need to get better technique on bench and stronger shoulders.

lol. solid bro science. how do u know that everyone is capable of doing this?

If you can wipe your own arse then you can bench to the chest. If you can't wipe your own arse then you have bigger problems than not being able to bench.

Usually people who complain about shoulder issues and benching and not touching the chest are people who need to learn how to tuck their elbows

[Wyldfyre]

lol. solid bro science. how do u know that everyone is capable of doing this?

Bro science =/= common sense

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

also if you have real long arms or thin torso (or both), be careful with bringing the bar all the way down to your chest - check the elbows and you can pretty much stop when they are slightly below parallel to keep most tension on the chest and off back/shoulders.. in my case when i brought the bar right down to my chest level my elbow instead of being parallel to floor was actually pointing directly down to the floor which helped explain some shoulder impingement issues

Not having a go at you personally bro but this mindset, in the world of building muscle and getting strong, is wrong..

A Bench Press touches the chest, everyone is capable of doing this, barring serious injuries limiting movement, if you get shoulder impingement when taking the bar all the way to your chest then you are doing it wrong and need to get better technique on bench and stronger shoulders.

thanks man i was actually hoping to start a topic on this exact part when i made the switchover but decided not to just because it was working in helping me keep benching without screwing my shoulders (left in particular)

perhaps if it's relevant to pec activation then we could discuss it in this thread?

read everywhere on forums/articles to bench all the way down to chest but when you watch videos of all these guys doing the bench;

1) yes they do bring the bar all the way down to the chest

2) but when the bar is all the way at the bottom, their elbow to floor angle is only just a little off parallel

person 1 : brings bar all the way down until it touches his chest - his elbows are only slightly lower than being parallel with floor

person 2 : brings bar down until his elbows are slightly lower than being parallel to floor but bar is not touching his chest

person 3 : brings bar down until it touches his chest - elbows point so low they could touch the floor -> this was me before, it's a great source of pain to shoulders.

aren't person 1 & 2 completing the same range of motion? is person 2 missing out on muscle activation even though he completes (what seems to be) the same ROM as another successful bencher?

i could go wider grip on the bar to fix the problem (so i can have both depth and elbows not going way too low so as not to hurt shoulder) but the rack really doesn't let me hold it that wide unless i wanna risk cutting up my fingers when docking the bar back. lots more freedom with dumbbells though.

anyone know much about muscle fibres activation (for pecs only) in relation to elbows angle to the floor?

i'm not condoning quarter reps or anything, genuinely trying to find out how best (and safest) to work the chest with 'monkey arms'

Usually people who complain about shoulder issues and benching and not touching the chest are people who need to learn how to tuck their elbows

thanks, can you talk more about this? i never heard about it before

edited to include cool drawing of what i do when the 'bad' type of pain kicks in

[student]

lol. solid bro science. how do u know that everyone is capable of doing this?

Bro science =/= common sense

i can bench to my chest, therefore everyone can. nice common sense.

[student]

Not having a go at you personally bro but this mindset, in the world of building muscle and getting strong, is wrong..

A Bench Press touches the chest, everyone is capable of doing this, barring serious injuries limiting movement, if you get shoulder impingement when taking the bar all the way to your chest then you are doing it wrong and need to get better technique on bench and stronger shoulders.

lol. solid bro science. how do u know that everyone is capable of doing this?

If you can wipe your own arse then you can bench to the chest. If you can't wipe your own arse then you have bigger problems than not being able to bench.

Usually people who complain about shoulder issues and benching and not touching the chest are people who need to learn how to tuck their elbows

Im sure alot of people can touch their chest no problem. But you only have your body and your experiences. All you can really go by is your own experience and what others tell you they experience. Now I dont know who youve talked to, but it seems to me that there is no clear majority in the debate. When you say things like 'its safe for EVERYONE to touch the bar to their chest', you sound full of shit, because you couldnt possibly know - in fact, i dont even think its close to everyone.

[Riccardo]

When you say elbows parallel to the floor I assume you mean your humerus? (Your upper arm where your biceps and triceps are)

What I mean is most people when they start benching or have shoulder issues have been benching like this (note this picture is a bit exaggerated):

when they should bench more like this:

Notice how the second guys elbows are closer to his body i.e. they are tucked and the bar touches lower on his body.

Another important consideration is your forearms should be pretty much straight up and down when the bar is touching your chest i.e. they are perpendicular with the floor.

[Riccardo]

Im sure alot of people can touch their chest no problem. But you only have your body and your experiences. All you can really go by is your own experience and what others tell you they experience. Now I dont know who youve talked to, but it seems to me that there is no clear majority in the debate. When you say things like 'its safe for EVERYONE to touch the bar to their chest', you sound full of shit, because you couldnt possibly know - in fact, i dont even think its close to everyone.

I guarantee 99.99% of the time it's a technique/ego issue and nothing to do with injury/safety

[Riccardo]

edited to include cool drawing of what i do when the 'bad' type of pain kicks in

What does your benching look like from a bird's eye view?

If you continue to have an impingement when benching with proper technique its likely to be an imbalance and you need to strengthen your posterior rotator cuff. Lots of external rotation of your shoulder and rowing movements will sort it out.

[severe]

Usually people who complain about shoulder issues and benching and not touching the chest are people who need to learn how to tuck their elbows

Fixed my shoulder pain. :nod:

You want to feel the pecs? Do a warmup set of 10-12 light, then 3 heavy sets of 7-10. Then drop set the 4th working set. Go to failure, drop weight, go to failure, drop weight... You will feel it. That is how I'm doing it ATM. And then cable flyers doing the same drop set style.

Not an exact science, but this is working for me. Some advocate certain amounts to reduce, but I drop by 10kg each time as its easier to manage.

High volume with a long time under tension.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

When you say elbows parallel to the floor I assume you mean your humerus? (Your upper arm where your biceps and triceps are)

What I mean is most people when they start benching or have shoulder issues have been benching like this (note this picture is a bit exaggerated):

when they should bench more like this:

Notice how the second guys elbows are closer to his body i.e. they are tucked and the bar touches lower on his body.

Another important consideration is your forearms should be pretty much straight up and down when the bar is touching your chest i.e. they are perpendicular with the floor.

thanks! i was doing it the way it's shown on the top photograph so elbow flared right out instead of tucked. just read a bit about tucking since you mentioned it and learned about how it's placing way too much torque on the shoulder joint. too bad i just had a chest session today but will make sure to tuck from next week onwards and report back on whether i snapped my *** up or not

[Riccardo]

All good, give it a whirl and let us know if you're still having problems. I would still do some shoulder prehab with some rowing/external rotations if you are having shoulder pain just to be safe. It will keep your shoulders healthy in the long run.

[Shutupandsquat]

That's how I bench, yet someone on these forums told me I was benching wrong... Funny that

[Pabs]

When you say elbows parallel to the floor I assume you mean your humerus? (Your upper arm where your biceps and triceps are)

What I mean is most people when they start benching or have shoulder issues have been benching like this (note this picture is a bit exaggerated):

when they should bench more like this:

Notice how the second guys elbows are closer to his body i.e. they are tucked and the bar touches lower on his body.

Another important consideration is your forearms should be pretty much straight up and down when the bar is touching your chest i.e. they are perpendicular with the floor.

Thanks for posting this, Riccardo, as it enforces for me something I found out by accident the other day. When doing heavier benches the other day I started getting a fair bit of shoulder pain. I played around with my elbow position a bit and when I tried with the elbows "tucked" like the second picture instead of flared like the first picture, the pain was pretty much non-existent.

Definitely nice being able to bench and not worrying about pain or the fact I may be screwing my shoulders.

[BeastBuilder]

Wow this thread blew up quickly while I wasn't paying attention haha.

Spose I should defend the point I made, although Riccardo has done a great job of that so far anyway.

Tuck your elbows, keep your upper back tight, slightly arch your back if it's comfortable, all allow for a pain free bench and better shoulder health.

I can't remember where it is but I'm sure you could find it on youtube if you're interested, there is a video of Dave Tate explaining how tucking your elbows works for bench and how it reduces the distance travelled by the elbows (a proper bench set up had the elbows travelling something like 5-6 inches less than a retarded one like most gym rats do).

No bro science about it Student, try benching like a bird flapping it's wings or try benching properly and see what serves you better in the long run.

Also what's not too like about it, more weight benching properly too, and end up with a bigger Chest that way too.

Even if we aren't talking about from a weight perspective, tucking your elbows and hitting your chest rather than flaring and not touching is still better as you get a better stretch in your Chest which leads to increased activation hence moire growth.

And funny you should talk about being able to wipe your own ass Riccardo, we were just talking about it today with Coach, about cramping up in your Lats when attempting this after a Back session, and yet we can still all bench to our Chests... Hmmm... :pfft:

And I bet it's still more than what majority of the half benchers out there are pressing...

[Kalidane]

Great contributions guys.

Heaps to take away and work on. It could be the biggest is getting a good tuck, which I surely wasn't, and making sure the shoulders stay locked in. I'd had my elbows flared as faaark but we're on to that now.

Come at me Thursday!

[Dr Squat]

As the subject implies I can't get no pec satisfaction.

I think my flat bench setup is okay as far as the scapula retraction goes - seems pretty easy to feel when that is correct.

From that point on though it ain't working out right. Wide/normal/narrow grip it's all the same apart from a little stretched feeling at the bottom with wide grip.

I suspect I 'cheat' with incline DB press and don't have the scapula squeeze happening and my flyes are just shit - has never felt like I've done it correctly.

What do you guys do for activation and mind-muscle connection with them titties?

I'm keen to have a skills session Thursday and get this working

My advice would be to get strong at pressing movements like flat/incline/decline barbell. By strong I don't necessarily mean doing max singles but getting strong in the 5-10 range. I'm not a bodybuilder but I have a better chest than many bodybuilders and this is possibly because I am stronger than most.

I wouldn't be too concerned with pec activation. If you work hard at becoming progressively stronger then your chest will grow (along with your delts, triceps and the rest of your upper body). Stick to basic movements and focus on pressing strength. Not alot of point doing pec deck and cable crossovers if you have no chest. Worry about squeezing your chest once you have built one.

There are a few complicated theories in this thread about how to best press. It shouldn't be complicated. I believe in full ROM for beginners and make sure the bar does touch your chest. If you don't touch your chest at the bottom you will limit your ability to get big and strong. I am pretty simple and struggle with thinking about more than 3 things when I bench. Most novices make 2 mistakes when pressing IMO:

- start with the bar over their eyes. Bring the bar right out over the chest

- they touch too high. You need to touch the lower chest.

Doing both of these things correctly will force you to tuck your elbows.

The other thing I would think about it keeping tight. Push your shoulder blades back and push your chest up high.

Keep things simple. It takes time to get strong at pressing and to develop your chest.